Gene Wolfe said, "magic realism is fantasy written by people who speak Spanish"

I don't know about Pratchett, but Wolfe is far superior to Marquez. Not even trying to rustle your jimmies, Wolfe is just straight out amazing.
He also pretty much got just about all the awards is a known fan of Borges. A lot of things in his novels are heavily influenced by him and the there is very little thematic difference between them in many stories.

Why label? Just call it what it is, prose or poetry, fiction or non. these are the only labels you should even consider

They obviously didn't know what magical realism was. Fantasy and MR are different things.

Why?

Fantasy is, as this user pointed out , about creating a world with its own set of rules and reality, different from ours to a degree, be it great or small.

Magical realism, on the other hand, is about reality (our reality) merging with the supernatural and mythical until they are one and the same, as if the supernatural were actually "natural". So, for example, a character in García Márquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude can get out of his house and say he is going to battle the Death, and mean it literally, or Saladin Chamcha in Rushdie's Satanic Verses can grow horns and become a sort of satire or devil and it's perfectly normal.

Of course, magical realism is usually written by people that come from so-called third-world countries, like India, México, Colombia, etc., because the ancient myths and traditions are very much still tangible, so to speak, and present in everyday life even today (e.g. México's Día de los Muertos), and that's why countries like the USA and England don't produce magical realism. Conversely, they produce a lot of fantasy, but Latin America doesn't, or at least not in the same scale or with the same quality (the same with science fiction to a much lesser extent, since it's a different genre altogether that does not necessarily correlate with cultural aspects specific of a nation).

This in turn shows that magical realism is a term commonly used (and I think coined too, but don't quote me on this) by critics from first-world countries of Europe and America to designate and exoticize this kind of literature. That goes more with postcolonial studies, if that's your thing.

I'm not an expert on this, so take everything I just wrote with a pinch of salt. I hope that I least I managed to explain myself clearly. If you want a good example of magical realism, read García Márquez's "A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings". It's a short story, well-written too (in Spanish at least), and it shows that merging of the supernatural and reality that I mentioned.

You should also read more serious articles and/or books about this if it interests you.

The problem is fantasy is a really wide term and a ton of works classified as such could by it be magic realism. This is especially the case for some of Wolfe.
Fantasy is a larger aesthetic and magic realism a more specific one. Chesterton for example isn't considered magic realism, but is quite similar to Borges in many respects and in which you describe, Marquez (didn't read him yet). Bottom line these genres are very fluid and intertwine a lot.

I completely agree with you, but Borges is definitely not magical realism. I would say, interestingly enough, that he wrote fantasy. This may also have to do with his western aesthetics.

The thing is, I think, that magical realism is very much deliberate. One sets out to write it. That is why Rulfo and Roa Bastos are considered magical realists but are really not, while GGM and Rushdie actually are.

In any case, both fantasy and MR are just labels. Useful to an extent, but very unreliable.

I haven't read Wolfe nor intend to do it, so I can't comment on him.

Wolfe was for the most part referring to Borges in that statement actually.
And if you liked Borges and Chesterton you should check Wolfe out. Not similar to them on the surface, but there are a lot of parallels in themes and ideas.

Nah, I can't be bothered reading "high fantasy". It just isn't my cup of tea.

>would rather read low fantasy

Pleb alert.

I don't think the main focus of magic realism works is the fantasy parts which sets it apart from fantasy.

Would rather not read dedicated fantasy at all.

These quotes are intended to trigger academics and that is what makes them right.

As an "academic," I can vouch for this statement's 100% accuracy.

Fantasy as a genre is more than just 'impossible things happen', otherwise Genesis would be fantasy because it has a talking serpent.

>implying the bible is not one huge fantasy

Fucking edge

I don't like religious zealots myself, I find thier ignorant "because I said so" style answers to life's mysteries annoying, but come on.

How big is your fedora honestly

Facts aren't "edgy", pseud.

>Implying it's a fact that God does not exist

No, they just like pretending their garbage is on the same level as actual literature.

If you believe the events of Genesis are non-fiction, you are literally insane.

fucking hell why is this board infested with all the religious fucknuts today

there are already two threads for you to post your stupid hat memes in

I don't. I'm not even Christian, but the Bible and christ are things people believe nd have a tradition for doing so, calling them fantasy is edgy bullshit because people who read fantasy and write are doing so understanding the pretense that it isn't real.

Even if the Bible is full of holes, being a snarky faggot is for tumblr and you should go there

Not even religious.

But hey, why is my lit filled with Reddit fedoras? Shouldnt you guys be debating lolicon instead of God?

Most of Wolfe's work isnt even fantasy or sci-fi.

Dosent really matter if you dont read him I guess, but at least choose a better reason that shitmouthed ignorance.

im sorry to burst your bubble but some fantasies are unintentional

>shitmouthed ignorance

I am simply not interested in reading him. You don't need to be so assblasted about it, user.

Holy shit, you're dense. You honestly think the author of Genesis didn't make the whole story up using the power of his imagination? The Bible is epic fantasy of a piece with Homer and Hesiod. The fact that you imagine the supernatural entities in one of the book are "real" doesn't change the genre classification.

Like I said, that's ok.

But you implied that Gene Wolfe was a "high fantasy" writer when he's nothing of the sort, very few of his works even fall into the fantasy category.

So again, choose a better reason than your own ignorance and Veeky Forums memes. Smart cookies usually research the things they talk about.

When you understand that people believe this as fact and use it to motivate them and get them though their lives, whether you think they are stupid for it or not, being a snarky faggot and trying to equate it to the intentionally fantastical is just being a dick.

To be fair most Wolfe books look exactly like your average high fantasy shlock even at more than a glance

I never called them stupid. I said it is one big fantasy. Sue me

>use it to motivate them and get them though their lives, whether you think they are stupid for it or not
Go back to pleddit, you simpering faggot.

It's not a fantasy to them, and therefore it falls under the category of religious where it has always been.

I know you are Euphoric, and you think the lies you tell yourself everyday about your life are somehow not as pathetic as people believing in a magic man who created women out of man's ribs, but shut the fuck up and just be enlightened by your own intelligence and not some phony god in silence

I insist, you needn't be so assblasted about what I said or implied. I said I hadn't read him, so I couldn't comment on him, but from what I had read here his novels.were considered "fantasy", even "high fantasy", but I never said that as an insult.

If it's ok if I don't read him, why do you even bother telling me that? What do you care about what I read and don't? I even went and googled him, and the first thing that came up was that he is a fantasy and science fiction writer. Go figure.

>I know you are Euphoric, and you think the lies you tell yourself everyday about your life are somehow not as pathetic as people believing in a magic man who created women out of man's ribs, but shut the fuck up and just be enlightened by your own intelligence and not some phony god in silence
damn you're really triggered. again, i never called them stupid, you're just assuming i did for some reason. i also didn't state it was a fantasy for them i simply stated it was a fantasy. it could be a fantasy to me and others, you know...? i have a religious father and mother, and a brother and i think they are smart, my comment wasnt about intelligence at all

>I never said that as an insult.
Your tone already implied that fantasy is lesser, lets not even pretend otherwise.

Anyway, I'm just completely surprised that I see someone whose oh-so satisfied with himself on not reading an author based on face value assumptions, and then defends that same ignorance. I figure we can do a little better than that around here.

It is facetious to claim that the Bible is objectively fantasy and you understand why.

>le science
is also 'cuz i sed so' you worthless ideologue.
'le facts' makes you a pseud.

you're really thick. show me where i said it is "objectively" fantasy. in fact im done with this conversation, you've done nothing but assume things i never even said

magical realism happens in historical times and draws plot lines from historical events, whereas fantasy usually builds up new entire settings for everything.

Goodbye, have fun in reddit

According to you. My tone, in any case, implied that I don't like fantasy or enjoy reading it. I don't care about it, but not necessarily because I consider it lesser. It simply doesn't appeal to me. I dont go around and question you because you read Wolfe or don't read whoever else, be them fantasy writers or "literary" ones (whatever that means, as if genre distinction meant worth).

Stop being oversentitive because someone has different taste than you. I figure we can do a little better than that around here.

Really?

I've been writing fantasy stories set in an alternate history of Viking Age Europe where all the old pagan myths are somewhat true. You mean I can get away with slapping the 'magical realism' label on this stuff?

Idk that you can be a decent writer today and not be a fan of Borges. The guy is pretty amazing

That description is innacurate. Magical realism is fantasy mixed with simply fiction elements.

A man with bird wings showing up in otherwise conventional south america and being treated the way we would realistically treat him is magic realism.

If the bird man suddenly took a character to his magic bird society and then he had to fight the magic pig society, that would be fantasy

I guess that it's hard to pin a complete description on it, but in the very least it should have some realistic elements, and should mostly be a realistic story with few fantasy additions

I think you should stop trying to dodge.

It was never really about whether it "appealed" to you or not, it was about you putting GW down based on an inaccurate conception of him and his work. That was the basis of the entire argument.

What you said was literally as stupid as "I wont Shakespeare because I heard he writes ghost stories." So you really shouldn't be so taken aback that someone would call you on it.

Youre pretty spot on in my opinion. But I disagree somewhat and tend to agree with in terms of the gray area between fantasy and magical realism. Someone growing wings sounds to me to be more like a fantasy and less magical realism because magical realism is supposed to
, in my mind, revolve around real life, with the magic entertwined. Whereas as fantasy has magic at its core.

In LOTR, you have Gandalf who is described and well defined from the beginning as someone who has powers because he is a wizard. In 100 Years of Solitude, you have Melquiades who is first described as a gypsy with wonderous technologies that give him these strange powers. Its as if Melquiades embodies some strange ancient wisdom that is just a bit too far in the past for us to have now, but we recognize its possibilities.

Basically I'd say that magical realism is realism while seemlessly blending in fantastic elements to make it appear as they were strange but possible occurances in everyday life.

Marquez even states in interviews that he loved and was inspired by the storytelling of his grandmother, who would describe supernatural events as if they were real. Another user mentioned its much more likely that people in thrid world countries believe these things because its more of a part of their culture and thats spot on. Honestly my family is eastern european and they have always kind of had this impression that even though gypsies are never to be trusted, there is still something mysterious about them. Its that kind of stuff that spawned magical realism

So are you saying that Wolfe doesnt write fantasy? Weird that I've seen mentioned otherwise

You should actually read my post:
"It isn't my cup of tea". Science fiction isnt either, in case you consider Wolfe's work more akin to that genre. If you feel that that is putting him down, then fucking sue me.

Even if he didn't write that, I still wouldnt read him cause my backlog is already too big.

He's not "high fantasy", that's for damn sure.

If you ever do read anything by him try Peace, its pretty short

Magical realism should just be categorized as a subgenre of fantasy.

Of course it is "objectively" fantasy fiction. Adam and Even did not actually exist, nor did Abraham, Joseph, and the rest of the gang. The stories in the Bible are fanciful works of the imagination.

Your post is unintelligible. Functionally illiterate people like you should refrain from posting on this board.

>Your post is unintelligible. Functionally illiterate people like you should refrain from posting on this board.
IF YOU SAY THING I DONT LIKE YOUR LE ILLITERATE XDDD

Go read your fantasy, pseud.

Uh, what? Don't post here if you can't read. It's that simple.

I am an user who reads and I can tell you that he is doing a pretty good job of shitting on you right now.

He can stay imo.

>pseud

Did you just learned that word this week, son?

Take your samefagging back to /b/, you illiterate buffoon.

I read more than you, write more than you, have received more recognition (for both) than you.

Yet you keep yapping. Go back to reading ASOIAF or some god-forsaken brony erotica.

Not samefag. I'm bored and this is an amusing exchange; "Fantasy readers" are memes anyway.

I'm not into genre fiction - although I suppose reading anything is better than being functionally illiterate like yourself. Enroll in a special needs class, son.

I have no idea what that means.

Fantasy and magical realism are mostly overlapping. If anything the "true" Latin American movement was the so-called "real maravilloso", as formulated and theorized mainly by Alejo Carpentier, which was a sort of complex and linguistically rich neobaroque that anticipated the actual neobaroque, particularly the Cuban version and not so much the Argentinian version. Magical realism, in its "Latin America boom" iteration, which corresponds to the time and authors that most of the posters here have been referencing, was mostly a marketing ploy by Spanish publishers who, simultaneously, had a route to enter and boost their sales in Latin American countries as well as getting a catalogue of rights to sell for translations. It was a huge deal back then, and some agents became well known, influential figures at that period of time. The quality of (some of) those works was exceptional, there's no doubt about that, but the formal distinction between magical realism and fantasy tends to be inconsistent and diffuse, and rely mostly in geopolitical and chronological aspects. Some theorists, however, argue that its particularity, and what makes it a legitimate and necessary classification for the works that fall in that category, is that "Latin America magical realism" is part of a "process", to call it in some way. To put a very blunt and rather inaccurate example, you could say that many novels can be called "surreal", but only a specific corpus belongs to a proper "surrealistic" tradition, say the people directly involved in the elaboration of the manifestos. In a similar fashion, magical realism would be related to a series of movements and moments in Latin American literature, from their take on modernismo to expressionism in the visual arts, as well as a reaction to certain tendencies in European and (North) America literature that didn't fully adequate to the history or culture of Latin America.

Most of his works are science fiction or neither sf or fantasy. He wrote a lot of novellas and short stories, Fifth Head of Cerberus which is one of his most famous works is 70 pages long.