/sffg/ - Science Fiction and Fantasy General

>"There's three of you" - he looked at them - "And there's one of me. But there's not more of you than me. That's a mathematical paradox and an exception to the rule"
>"But... how?"
>"Fuck off, that's how"

Oy, banter got me rolling.

Talk about Dinosaurs and their impact in our SFFG culture.

I don't know much about Dune and would like to hear more about it. Summer brought in new Veeky Forumsizens that could use some light as well, so talk about whatever topics you want.

I also am (very slowly) reading Dune for the first time. 100 pages in, nothing really happened yet except some hunter bat assassination thingie being caught and them talking about how cinnamon affects the economy. I'm guesing this is one of those books where the first 3/4 is build up and shit goes down towards the ending.

It takes Dune Messiah and Children of Dune to really properly snap as a full plot. Everything after is just cherry on top.

I read Dune years ago and disliked it. Want to try again, but still waiting on a copy of Messiah.

>reading past the first book

Like I said last thread, the series has always had a place in my heart. It's what inspired me to get interested in writing when I was a kid that's carried on today. Now I just want to write non-fiction and a lot has changed, however. Anyways, like I said you can call the interest generic, I still find the world of it all so beautiful and striking.

What I always find so striking about Dune, is how Paul is both the antagonist and the protagonist. But it's never really ever, ever in a million years shouted down he's the antagonist. It's just gradally making you sympathize with him, as he himself comes to term with his thoughts and his future. It was written as why power is a negative, but it's always one step ahead in compromising your every day morals into getting the alien-ness of Paul himself. That's something that I'm excited to explore more in my reread.

You don't include God Emperor of Dune even though it encapsulates the running themes of the series? Why not?

Because it isn't needed, the initial three books are their own trilogy. You don't need it spelled out to you, though through God Emperor it's spelled out further, beautifully. I just think the further down you go, the even further you need to

The only running themes in the books is to convince you that someone going insane is actually far more sane than anyone else, just as in their minds. God Emperor shouts that down at you wonderfully, but I find the story of Paul to be more compelling as a tragic villain, than Leto II.

To me that sounds like saying that the story of Moses renders the story of Jesus pointless. I consider GEoD necessary to form a complete circular story, but it's just a matter of opinion.

It does. But I'm suggesting to people who first start on Dune, it may not be fully to their liking. Dune and its two other novels are alien enough to get into, and the story of a man given ultimate power inside of a worm might not be for the people who didn't like the philosophizing. I've run into that problem a lot.

I love GEoD, but I remember it still being a tough read.

Without the sequels the first book isn't nearly as good since they give the original a different context.

In the sense of looking at Dune from the eye of knowing the author's intentions. You see Duke Leto as almost Kennedy like in nobility, and Paul as a justified hero. But if we're to see it through the eyes unbiased by soothe saying from the narritive built to trick you, it is interesting that you have the Baron Vladmir Harkonnen existing for the audience of everything wrong with power. Orgies, corruption, slavery, sex, all these things that make us repulse. But is it not hypocritical for the reader not to see Paul as similar, since he is responsible for endless death? Duke Leto for being responsible for the death of his house? Shaddam for conspiring?

Everyone is doing something justifiable to themselves, except for the Baron, and I always found his character odd and out of place and too abrasive. But reading it now, I think his character has significance as a cruel irony, that Paul despite his knowing of all things he will be, he still not self aware enough to see his parallel in Baron Harkonnen. Fitting still, narrative wise, it is revealed related to them. It's obvious knowing about it after the fact, but this stuff is so hidden inside of it wound up nobody would ever catch it. It's still clever.

I think the protagonist of the 3 stories really is either Alia or Lady Jessica.

*revealed he is related to them

why troll

Did anyone read Stand on Zanzibar? Thoughts? It is pretty long I don't want to dive into shit.

>all this dune posting
Are you all sandhuggers or something?

Anthem - Ayn Rand

There are many dimensions to how ass fart this post is.

Dune dosent really have a set protag, its more of a grand tapestry told from many perspectives.

What's some good military sci-fi beyond the big three? (Them being Starship Troopers, Forever War and Old Mans War.)

>big three
>Old Mans War
???

Ender's Game, The Forge of God, The Mote in God's Eye. Dune?

I wouldn't call Dune military SF because there's only two battles and it doesn't really focus on the military technology or war lifestyle.

Sage - 3, 2, 1

Neal Asher, BV Larson

Hammer's Slammers: Armored cavalry mercenaries with plasma guns and hover tanks. A good starting place is are the short stories "The Butcher's Bill" and "The Interrogation Team"

RCN/Lt. Leary series: By the above author, essentially a Hornblower or Aubrey/Maturin style series in space.

Lost Fleet series: Fleet combat focused series, main character was in cryosleep for 100 years before being rescued by a retreating fleet. He finds that a century of warfare has resulted in both sides of the war basically degenerating to "just rush right at them bro."

The Dread Empire's Fall: Thousands of years in the future humanity is part of a vast interstellar empire, the race that created the empire eventually dies off/ascends and a civil war is started by one of the other races. Has both space combat and guerrilla warfare stuff.

I want a book that has the world building and great story of ASOIAF..

>try to reread WoR
>the Shallan chapters
>oh god
>end up reading all of Kaladin's chapters from the arena fight to the end with some of Dalinar's and the whole ending bit
>call it a day

>ASOIAF
>Great story
>Worldbuilding

goodreads.com/book/show/102281.The_Big_Time
anyone got this? cant find it anywhere.

Anyone read The Faded Sun triology?

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Faded Sun? Cherryh? Yes.

>you are walking minding your own business
>feel someone smack your ass
>turn around see pic related
>what do?

What's this from?

>you are walking minding your own business
>feel someone smack your ass
>turn around see pic related
>what do?

fuck off this isn't /b/

>tfw 90% of the arabian nights is dull and completely unmemorable
>tfw so few fantasy novels old or new have a sense of wonder or whimsy

...

...

>tfw you like fairytale fantasy but cringe at romance
>tfw every book with a concept you like is romance

...

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Anyone here read Robin Hobb? The Liveship Traders is pretty good desu senpai.

Who is the Zizek of SFF?

>Once it's done downloading I could upload it tomorrow if people are interested.

Go ahead

I only read the first Farseer book, but the other anons said the rest of the series blows. What distinguishes Liveship Traders from other generic fantasy?

Sanderson's magic systems are generic as a fuck. The only time he really does rip off anime is pic related for his YA series (and he clearly can't into science fiction at all. Perfect State was clearly a watered down version of the Matrix too.)

The Reckoners
>Has Epics which appear following the appearance of Calamity, appearing as a red glowing star in the sky, which gifts powers to humans
>Upon becoming an Epic a human becomes an immoral sociopath who instinctively kills everyone in their vicinity and hunts down people they know in the interests of self preservation
>Each Epic has a seemingly random weakness (but relevant to them) tied to them that invalidates their powers eg music
>Each Epic obtains a power set which can range from anything from electrical powers to precognition
>MC (David) joins an elite underground organisation dedicated to killing Epics which actually contains Epics

Darker than Black
>Has Contractors who appear following the replacement of the real sky with the fake sky and Contractors are denoted by glowing stars in the sky
>Upon becoming a Contractor a human becomes an immoral sociopath who thinks rationally and prioritises their self preservation to the point of genocide
>Each Contractor has a seemingly random price which they must pay following the use of their powers which often weakens them or reduces the amount of time they can dedicate to combat
>Each Contracotr obtains a power set which can range from anywhere from electrical powers to chronokinesis
>MC (Hei) is part of an elite secret organisation dedicated to killing Contractors which actually contains Contractors

The difference between the two is that Reckoners goes to complete shit with Megan's 'imma access alternate dimesnion' powers, insane power levels and making Calamity into a whingy boy as well as having far worse worlbuilding than Darker than Black, whilst the latter only goes to shit in S2.

I've read the farseer, liveship and tawny man trilogies. They were good for what they were, Fitz really should have gotten together with The Fool though, was very disappointed with the ending to the tawny man trilogy.

Who's an overrated hack? GRRM I guess?

Living ships?

The other anons tell me the 2nd and 3rd Farseer books were overbearingly long and unrewarding. Are they wrong? Should I finish the trilogy?

But those are in Banks' Culture novels, and if science fiction can't make it interesting, how can fantasy?

The second one is very slow, but I liked the third one. I highly recommend finishing the trilogy because I don't think the first book stands very well on its own. Very few of her books do. They're written as trilogies for a reason.

She gets the pace a bit better with the Tawny Man trilogy. The Liveshop Trader trilogy is certainly the best-written though, despite the lack of a lovable first person perspective.

The Culture series is shit tho.

>expecting people to read a bloated 2k page trilogy just because the author keeps sandbagging their readers to maintain her royalty check.

thanks for replying, but that was one of the worst persuasive reviews i've ever read. i was really being open minded, but i'll sit this one out.

lol culture ship names sooooo randum XD

If you didn't like the first part I doubt you'll like the rest. I read it back in 2000 and I liked the trilogy a lot at the time but I've never reread it so I can't say how it holds up for me. There are much better stuff out there for sure but I think it's an above average series.

Not a must read by any means.

Hey up to you m8. I think it depends on your perspective. She's not like a classic fantasy author who focuses on kings and the fate of empires. Instead she weaves a vast web of unique characters and creates a world full of mystery and mysticism. That's not for everyone, and in fact I personally think it suits female readers more.

That said, if you read Hobb, you need to consider what you want to get out of it. If you're hoping for good vs evil, epic battles, or divine beings and fireballs and shit, you're out of luck. If you want to read about real characters slowly uncovering shocking or unexpected secrets of the world's past in an environment of human failings and complex interaction, then Hobb is the author for you.

She does not have a concise manner of writing, so if you hate books for being overlong, or for not being self-contained, then that's fair enough. The revelations typically come in the third book, or late in the second book, of her trilogies, making the first 3/4s of the second book in every trilogy the most difficult to get through. That said, I think that Royal Assassin is by far the most bloated of her works, as most of the rest of her books use most of the words that they include.

I liked the first part but I'm told the rest of the story hasn't earned the length.

I have to confess that anything I read which isn't Sanderson feels bloated.

Jesus, you're a really fair minded person. I can't even flame you.

Sanderson doesn't have to be bloat, but he is empty calories.

Have you really examined his prose? It's like an ugly, uneven, barely nailed floor, just waiting for the planks to be ripped out.

Well if you read the Rain Wild Chronicles on my advice then I'd be okay with you flaming me. It's fucking awful desu. Four books instead of three, and nothing happens for three and a half, and then the ending is rushed as fuck. And the characters read like they're from a Mills and Boon novel. And there are faggots everywhere. I haven't started her most recent trilogy yet as it's unfinished, but after reading the Rain Wild Chronicles I'm concerned that she's lost her way.

I really can't comment on individual parts since I read it as a whole and they sort of float together in my memory. I don't remember any filler though.

Just finished Brave New World, about to move onto Nineteen Eighty-Four. Afterwards I'm thinking of moving on to Asimov, and I was wondering if there is any recommended reading order for him/preferred books? My brother has a copy of The Caves of Steel and I'm thinking of just diving into it.

Yeah, Iain Banks is pretty much reddit tier.

Most modern readers who read Asimov will eventually mature and see that his writing sorely required better prose and characterization.

I'd recommend none of his novels, but if you have to, read the robot short stories, then Foundation.

You're reddit tier baka faggot desu

Hmm.

Wow, actual productive discussion and reviews (Dune and Farseer), instead of disjointed one-off statements and shitposting. Who woulda thunk it?

I'm a newfag to the thread and I don't know the conventions yet, so I had little choice but to offer productive discussion. Sorry.

That looks gay as fuck. Please stop posting desu

I've read all of Hobb's Fitz books but none of the others (Liveships, Soldier Son, Rain Wild). I read them as they came out so I can't remember enough for constructive discussion, but I agree that Hobb in general is very slow-paced.

If you like her characters, she can be a goldmine, however. Any book involving Fitz is basically a guaranteed read for me. I read to find out what's happening in his story, and not the world's (I'm not really sure the distinction makes sense).

What are some non romance fantasy books with all the wonder and world building of Harry Potter or The Orphan's Tales?

No boring medieval euro fantasy pls

You realise that Liveship Traders is better than any Fitz book right? And that when you were introduced to characters in The Golden Fool from Bingtown, you were supposed to know who they were?

I knew there were characters from Liveship Traders in Golden Fool, and I didn't care.

Have you read any of the Fitz and the Fool series? I'm holding off until the third book comes out, but I wanna know if it's on the same level as the other trilogies.

Any end of the world caused by pathogen novels featuring a little girl protagonist?

What's the best modern sci-fi and fantasy? I've read a good amount already but still need to fill in the gaps. A chart would help. Danke.

The Witcher: Season of Storms
It's quite good, but doesn't hold up with the spirit of the old ones well.
Half of the book is banter, so yeah...

Literally the first post

Yes, I've read both of them. After the Tawny Man, I'd say this is a return to form from Hobb (Fool's Errand is excellent, but I thought Golden Fool and Fool's Fate to be comparatively weak).

That said, the first book is slooow even by Hobb's standards. The second book has some points in the story that have been long in coming for the series, and it really feels like I'm reading the final installment of Fitz's story. All in all, I'd rate it super comfy, even if Fitz is his usual frustrating self.

I think holding off until the third is a wise decision.

Anyone reading the Expanse series? Just about done with book 2. I really like it so far.

By the way, I forgot to mention, characters from the Liveships and Rain Wilds appear in the second book, so if you take the optimum path (like in ), then you might consider reading both before tackling the new Fitz.

>(Fool's Errand is excellent, but I thought Golden Fool and Fool's Fate to be comparatively weak)
I also agree that Fool's Errand is the best book in the trilogy - and possibly the closest her Realm of the Elderlings stuff has come to a stand-alone book - but I liked Fool's Fate. The reveals weren't quite as good as in her other series, but learning about Outislanders was fun, and the whole saving the Fool thing felt suitably epic and characterful.

I'd still call it a return to form if its good though, because the Rain Wild Chronicles were pretty bad.

>That said, the first book is slooow even by Hobb's standards. The second book has some points in the story that have been long in coming for the series, and it really feels like I'm reading the final installment of Fitz's story. All in all, I'd rate it super comfy, even if Fitz is his usual frustrating self.

Sounds good, I look forward to reading it. Shame that the third book's not due to be released this year. And I'm glad that it's called "Fitz and the Fool", because the Fool running off at the end of the last book was annoying after everything that had happened.

Awesome thanks.

I remember only rough impressions from the Tawny Man (it's amazing how bad my memory is with books...), but with regard to Fool's Fate, I remember being left off with a bitter taste because of Burrich's death. Not in itself specifically, but that I felt he was killed off just so Fitz's story could be bow-wrapped with a happy ending with Molly. Now, I like Fitz, and I certainly hoped for a different kind of ending from Farseer, but I didn't feel good about how it was done. That said, since that one event overshadows pretty much everything I remember about the book, perhaps I'm being unfair to it.

Yeah, I hoped Hobb could keep up with the book a year routine, but alas. I won't comment on the Fool thing, since if you'll be holding off until the third I don't want to give you any shakes!