Catharsis

Why must you be meme to me ;-;?

Brighton rock

So literally Zen.

>Also, if you're hanging out with assholes that are "constructively criticizing"

change are to aren't - basically don't take no guff, people will make you a punching bag for their own neurosis.

I'm not a Buddhist by any means, personally I think that's just as angsty as teenage depression, but it doesn't take an enlightened demigod to realize eating shit all day will make you feel shitty. Don't just be a product of your environment, the "normal degenerate behavior" of youths does more damage than most would care to admit (or they just don't care at all).

>personally I think that's just as angsty as teenage depression

Would you mind elaborating on this? What makes you think it's angsty?

That is still all literally Zen, bro.
Perhaps you should read some sweet ass Dogen.

Mostly their denial to participate in modern civilization. It's just not the way our world can work, and we (America/the West) hasn't really had too much exemplary Buddhist figures to give us anything more than a skewed new-age adaptation of the religion.

I dunno, maybe, sounds like an oversimplification. I think theres more to the spectrum than just Zen and Hedonism, and theres a hell of a lot more to Buddhism than the things I stated, I'm not searching for any abstract concept releasing me from reincarnation.

Yeah, Zen doesn't really give that much of a fuck about karma and reincarnation. At least not in the way other schools may think of it.
If you don't know something, you're not supposed to act as though you do. This school of thought is all about stripping yourself from BS and trying to be as authentic as possible.

There is a reason secular Buddhism has been on the rise lately.

>If you don't know something, you're not supposed to act as though you do

Well, I just did. See? Not Buddhist. Also, I have never heard that before, but right on.

If you just ignore the shit I said about Buddhism, my point still stands. (and I still don't like Buddhists)

Hmm, I often think that I don't see as clearly when I am "happy". I feel most clearminded when I am slightly glum.

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It's not a sin, chucklehead. It's just a simple argument, that it's probably a good idea to try and keep (what we would call) a skeptics mindset. As opposed to constantly assuming shit about ourselves and the world we can not know, often just feeling worse for it for no good reason.

Just saying. Actual Zen Buddhist scholars (none of those LA new age fucktards) may be an interesting read for you.
Reading the Shobogenzo is reminiscent of Heidegger.

Ah, the book that sometimes comes up on google when I'm looking for bondage porn.
>tfw true patrician

>bondage porn
>patrician
Come back when you have a fetish for floor tiles or Ohio, you fifty shades of pleb

>he thinks FSOG is bondage
Oh, my sweet summer child.

I want to know what percentage of Veeky Forums browsers keep a large collection of porn on their computer in case of emergency
pic related is a sample from my mammoth picture collection (exactly 1800 pictures)

>It's not a sin, chucklehead.
Ha, yea I know, but if I'm going to admit I'm wrong, I have to mix it in with an underhanded insult. I was mixing up Zen with Buddhism, and also have little more than an academic idea of both. Zen had an impact on me when I was younger, and worked for me, so maybe that's why it penetrates my way of doing things.

I am intrigued now, actually, just because of how articulate your answer is, but honestly I feel like most of the things I stated previously can be found in any of the major religions, really, especially since more recent globalization of them.

Is there just no end-game in Zen? no heaven/reincarnation/featherweight trials and just chillin?

Let's stop this. Post some comfy bondage thingy now.

got you fammenkueche

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i like this one

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are you there?

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>Is there just no end-game in Zen? no heaven/reincarnation/featherweight trials and just chillin?
Well, yes and no.

Zen folks generally think people meditating for dat dere enlightenment are fucking morons. (There are endless stories of Zen masters low key making fun of students for trying. Or straight up hitting them with a stick.) Not only because trying to become enlightened while having the goal of enlightenment in mind is contradictory, but also because enlightenment isn't some kind of end goal to begin with. It doesn't really give you anything you don't already have.
Most people don't know that "Buddha" didn't just vanish into thin air after enlightenment. He was enlightened, realized some shit, and tried to tell others about his thoughts. Later he sent letters around about still having Karma because he felt horrible about a war happening around his home.

There is such a thing as "cheap enlightenment" in Zen. (I'm not gonna bombard you with Japanese phrases.)
"True enlightenment" kind of exists as a concept, but nobody is really sure if it is even really possible or not. And that isn't really the point anyway. The point is to act as though it does. This is an odd point here and I'm not doing the best job at describing it, I know.

Zen is pretty much stripped down Buddhism. "Just sit."(and meditate) would be a common answer to most problems.

It's not so much about chilling as about trying to exist as authentically as possible. Why that is generally more "chill" than not doing it, would need me going into the different concepts of suffering... But generally people would agree that living life desperately trying to be "someone" or "something" you have decided you "must" or "should be".
If there was any "faith" in Zen, it would probably be that nothing is everlasting and that whatever you ought to be is probably what you are and is simply done by being what you are. (As opposed to formulating some concept of who/what you are and living according to that.)
And that is why Zen is so weird. And very much an "applied philosophy".

This may be one of the worst summaries of (secular) Zen Buddhism ever, but I hope you see in what direction this goes.

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should I keep posting?

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Not that guy, but if you are open to going into those concepts of suffering, please go ahead.
I'm interested in Zen Buddhism.

PS: I'm also no expert. Seriously. Do some reading, try some stuff out. Try to get a feel for it. (While dodging the esoterics and new agers.)
It really isn't a thing you can "convince" anyone of anyway.

Ugh, I'll try. But suffering is a big ass topic in Buddhism. I study psychology (philosophy before) and I'm starting to be convinced, that they have a better grasp on it than anyone.

Short version then:
First thought are the "Four Noble Truths". You'll find this in pretty much all schools of Buddhism, but details in interpretation and what is deduced from it my vary. They are (in their simlpest translation/interpretation):
>1. There is suffering.
>2. Suffering has an origin.
>3. Liberation of suffering exists/is possible.
>4. There is a way (for us) to do this.

It seems like a no-brainer. But many on this board would be willing to disagree.
And every single point here has a bunch of ideas that can be deduced from them. Especially in the original meanings of the various terms ("suffering" is also translated as "insatisfaction"). But let's move on.

(cont.)

The simplest taxonomy of suffering used in Zen Buddhism (and probably the one most often used) is this:
>1. Suffering of suffering: Acute pain or fear or distress. Generally "objective" suffering.
Nothing much can be really done about this, apart from avoiding it like a sane person would and helping each other out.
>2. Suffering of change: Suffering because of things not being permanent. Relationships, life, your bank account, etc.
This is an understandable form of suffering, but one you potentially could cling to. These are the things one most commonly would say, that you just have to "get over". But this already leads into the next form:
>3. All-pervasive suffering: "Self-induced" suffering. Essentially you always have the potential to suffer. Say for instance you live in a constant fear of going broke, because you know your money could be gone tomorrow.
Zen Buddhists are most concerned with this one. In this concept, you are punishing yourself for something that isn't actually happening. This can also be past experiences. (To be unwilling to let go of grief or guilt, out of some sense of responsibility, which is ultimately just serving no one but your own ego.)

An example I like to use to make this more clear, is when you go to the doctor to get your blood taken. I'm not paranoid about it, but to make it less painful, I chose not to think about it or look at it. I don't try to forget about it or ignore it. I just let the little prick be a little prick and nothing more. It's a little painful, but I don't add to it.
Another example would be kids who fall down and scrape their knees. We all know that moment where everybody looks at the kid expectantly to see if it just ignores it or starts bawling it's eyes out as though you just tore it's leg off. More often than not, it's those expectant looks that shove the kid over that edge. And at some point it will just cry automatically every time. Not because the pain is unbearable, but because that is what he learned to do. To really suffer.
(This is also why I think girls tend to cry faster in our culture. Parents expect them to be less pain resistant and are more doting. So they tend to learn much quicker that it is appropriate to cry.)

These are simple examples, but I think they illustrate what I'm getting at.
That will be it for now. I could go into the Eight Noble Paths, Five Aggregates, Illusions, Falsehoods, etc.
but those are all topics of their own.

Thanks user. I can do research on my own, and your explanation was clear and concise.

Looking at the needle does not make it hurt more you fragile snowflake.

>tfw going on twenty and already the coolest cat on the block

Been reading 'Crime and Discipline' and 'Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed', they're both pretty interesting while being depressing chronologies of how your life has been manufactured. Seeing how you just got out of highschool read "Dumbing us Down" as well. You'll be the coolest teenager in your grade. Afterwards read "To our friends" or "The coming insurrection" and everyone will hate talking politics with you.

Or if you're looking for a less refined angst, read Lermontov's "A Hero of our Time" or Dazai's "No longer Human". "Porteny's Complaint" is also great fun and mostly consists of whining and sexual frustration, just like your life.

You're welcome. I hope I didn't just tell you utter BS. Please double-check me.
Knowing when a pain will come will make you expectant of that pain in that moment.
Your brain will add that expected pain to what is actually happening. Because it will always use all information available to piece it together as coherently as possible.
i.e.:
youtube.com/watch?v=9xxPMYFxs0k

Most YA books are about that. Just walk into the that section at B&N and pick up 3 books at random.

Thanks my senpai I'll check em. You must know I get mad pussy though.

Fingering Suzy Loosebottoms at the highschool dance doesn't count as getting mad pussy son.

Siddharta