Christian Mysticism Reccomendations

I wonder if people who do this get demon status after they die, or just get tossed in the river of blood with the rest.

>Thanks Veeky Forums I knew I could count on you
You're welcome ph4m

>also I really prefer instructional books,
Me too(for mysticism)

>I'm looking in to actually getting into practice. I've been doing like 10 mins of Zazen meditation everyday for a while now but I'd like to look into it from a western, christian perspective.I'm pretty sure I'm a Catholic these days anyway.
Then you'll love to know about centering prayer: contemplativeoutreach.org/private/32977/field-file/cp-english.pdf

I find the interior castle a little less evanescent than let's say "The book of privy counsel" or St Johns Poetry. And both Meister Eckhart and the Cloud of Unknowing remain being my favorites.

PROTIP: As you're interested in mysticism beyond academic purposes only, I sincerely advice you to find a "spiritual counselor". Somebody who had traversed those pathless paths longer, so you'll be guided. Avoid charlatans and phonies(catholicism alas is full of those as any other affiliations, let's be honest), so pray alot until getting to know the right one. (him/her) Then the signs will be obvious and you'll know.

>spiritual counselor
literally telling him to be duped. user should read his ass off, read the academic the theological arguments, and come to his own conclusions.

Most spiritual Councillors are hippy dippy tier.

Thanks for the pdf, I'll be sure to look into it.

Like said I wont actively seek a 'spiritual councillor' but I do have the feeling that if I keep down this path I'll run into someone who knows what's up eventually.

>get tossed in the river of blood with the rest.
yup.

Mysticism is not about intellectual conclusions, man. That's theology.

>Most spiritual Councillors are hippy dippy tier.
Good Advice, as given before too:
>Avoid charlatans and phonies

>Councillors
Counselor, not councillor, it's about asking for advice, not about bureocracy.

But if egos are huge enough to label most counseling as hippy dippy tier, even from a pious practicing catholic, then kept the ego and intellect being your duper, it's up to everyone. (There is a HUGE intention in the aforementioned book being called "The Cloud of Unknowing", because intellect is actually a hindrance)

YES, you can read the theological arguments for refining personal criteria (academic ones have the academy as the only agenda, disregard those for practice) But those are not mutually exclussive, you can read all the treatises you want and get to your own conclusions, and still ask for advice from a pious practitioner. Let's not be closed-minded.

Hey it's OP here again I've read the pdf and it's basically Zen again. That's not bad though, I think it's quite clearer than most Zen advice I've read.

Mysticism is the wrong word for metaphysicians who possess higher states of the supra-rational intellect

well what's the right word?

My personal favourites would be Augustine, Pseudo-Dionysius, Margery Kempe, and Jakob Bohme.

Here's an online copy of The interior Castle, the edition seems ok:
documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/1515-1582,_Teresa_d'Avila,_The_Interior_Castle_Of_The_Mansions,_EN.pdf

Here are the sermons of Meister E:
christianmystics.com/Ebooks/Meister_Eckhart_Sermons/eckhart.pdf

Here's an online edition of The cloud of unknowing:
catholicspiritualdirection.org/cloudunknowing.pdf

I love the name of one of the last chapters, the 74:
>How that the matter of this book is never more read or spoken, nor heard read or spoken...

And that's it, experience the monad, everything else is ok.

Metaphysics, maybe, though that doesn't sound right. I don't know, but mysticism is a corrupted word for what it associates (paganism, New age, ect.)

Be sure that if it's not pseudo-intellectual babble is not Veeky Forums approved.

>Metaphysics, maybe, though that doesn't sound right. I don't know, but mysticism is a corrupted word for what it associates (paganism, New age, ect.)
Metaphysics then is also a corrupted concept, since it's used also for labeling lots of new age thought, i.e. Anni Bessant, Blavatsky, etc...

Purity is also a word corrupted by facism(a mode of paganism), so do not sweat it if your precious word is not PURE anymore.(such small-thinking ways) We're in context, so we know about what this thread is about whem OP said 'Christian Mystics'. Use the context luke.

>centering prayer
not very good prayer or even meditation
don't do this OP, look into catholic criticism of the practice

As you know, Catholicism is not a monolithic entity and it's actually several different groups with personal agendas, even if the Papal institution tries to 'reign' over them. It's Politics.

I say that OP should read the criticism against centering prayer and get to his own conclusions.

Also, a little remainder that even St John of the cross was under investigation and made prisioner by the inquisition. Meister Eckhart's sermons were banned from printing since then until recent times, because they were considered 'heretic', now they are embraced again by 'catholics'.

Politics messing up with mystics, as always, even Jesus had some of that, you know...

Sayings of the Desert Fathers is good.
If you haven't read the standard Greeks and then Plotinus, you need to. Neoplatonism is the basis of a LOT of mysticism.

>Most spiritual Councillors are hippy dippy tier.
Why aren't we just saying priests instead of councillors or whatnot, after all it's their job to provide spiritual advice.

And there were also many things that were righteously criticised and discouraged by saints and church leaders.

It's interesting you leap to the defence of the practice by stating that there is internal conflict within the Church about certain practices, policies and so on, but you exaggerate your case to the point where you teeter on the edge of being out of communion with the Church; by making that comment about the Church "actually" being different groups with personal agendas, and implying that the Papacy isn't the head of the Church. If this is the opinion you really hold, you're not even a part of the Church.

Mantras, hypnosis, these are mere delusions. Responsible Christian practice emphasis escaping subjectivity, being mindful of one's impulses and thoughts and not being led around by mere feelings. I have OCD, and Christian thought has been pretty helpful with regards to seeing past the trappings of this kind of thing.

why do people stick to theist doctrine, when those have not a clear manual for spiritual hedonism ?

no doctrine beats the buddhist guidances to get the jhanas. then the buddhists use the jhanas to see that material hedonism and spiritual hedonism is pure cancer.

This may be an incredible piece of information, but because they aren't in it for the hedonism.

user wants to explore christian religious experience in a more heretical fashion

He won't be exploring the christian mystical experience at all then t b h.
I should also finally get around mysticism a bit more.
Thoughts in Solitude by Thomas Merton were actually pretty great. Isn't mysticism, closer to just prayer, but great nonetheless.

reminder on how to get jhanas thru anapanassati (not his claim about awakening) :
dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3722283
The Technique:

People tend to dichotomize meditation between 2 types, insight, and concentration. Only now have I realized that this is unnecessary. The meditation that I used to obtain such a rock solid Jhana my first time meditating, was a combination of the 2 practices.

People when doing insight meditations often just note every sensation that arises, without concentrating on anything in particular. When people do concentration meditations, they often just continually bringing the awareness back to the object of meditation, and don't pay much attention to arising thoughts. When doing this, the result is thoughts/emotions will still arise, but they are just being ignored while you are focusing singularly on the object of meditation. This can lead some to get distracted easily.

Now, it's very simple. Simply combine the 2. Focus on your breath, keep bringing your attention back to your breath, but when a thought, emotion, or distraction arises, LABEL IT, become aware of it, do an insight practice towards it. Hold the distraction in your attention for a brief moment until you feel you have it, no more than a second or 2, then let go of it and focus back on the breath.

That's it. Repeatedly doing this will result in a number of things:
-Concentration will increase, leading to a growing absorption.
-Mindfulness and insight will also increase due to the power of concentration. This will allow you catch thoughts or emotions as they arising before they can have any effect on you. You will be able to catch arising sensations and stop them in their tracks.
-The more absorbed you get, the less frequently sensations/thoughts/emotions will arise as you will become increasingly aware of that region of your mind.
-After a certain point thoughts/emotions/sensations will stop arising all together and the Jhana will be instantly solid.

Doing this technique there is no soft Jhanas, only pure, Hard Jhanas, with no thoughts. You will simultaneously be practicing both insight and concentration meditations.

There will be a point where power of concentration grows and grows(if the resources of the mind allows it), to where you will start hearing your subconscious thoughts with an intense awareness as if someone were talking in your ear. The deeper into the mind you go, you will need to start reapplying the Insight technique while maintaining the concentration. Once you have gone to the deepest parts of the mind, when concentration is at its most powerful, you will essentially have stopped all ego thoughts. This is, a moment of enlightenment, though making it permanent takes time, and resources of the mind, as it must rearrange itself. It can take many sittings and refueling.

Now the deeper into the mind you go, if thoughts begin to arise beyond your control, and the labeling them isn't working, yet concentration still seems pretty strong, then that is a clear sign that you need to refuel. If your brain does not have the energy to maintain concentration, then labeling will grow ineffective and concentration will weaken. The Jhana will grow "soft" so to speak, but only because the mind does not have fuel.

Practicing insight and concentration together like this is a far superior method than practicing either one independently. It is far faster than practicing either one technique independently.

better pic

Saved. Thanks

Mariken van Niuemeghen XDD

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>And there were also many things that were righteously criticised and discouraged by saints and church leaders.
And even between saints and church leaders there had been discord in opinions. ie. St Francis putting the vatican in checkmate about riches in the hierarchy vs being being poor like Jesus. Or every Pope changing the agenda to conform to the zeitgeist. Papacy as a mundane agency had been always about politics, if you thinkso differently then you're quite naive.

>You're not even a part of the Church.
So that's it, it may be. I have no problem with excommunion(even one gave from a lesser member of the church, an uninstructed and rigid catholic user at Veeky Forums), excommunion had been given even to Saints like St Joan of arc, St Mary of the cross or St Athanasius. Meister Eckhart died in captivity while waiting for the inquisition veredict against him. This behavioral pattern from the catholic powers-that-be shows them as what they are, a political agency with a ad-hoc agenda, that changes in accordance with the times. Mysticism is not about mundane.

>Mantras, hypnosis, these are mere delusions.
If you get to label short prayer as mantra, then that shows you as the ignorant and the deluded, short prayer had been always the tool of the pious, the likes of St Francis of Asis,and contemplation is not hypnosis, is the highest practice by the religious.

>Responsible Christian practice emphasis escaping subjectivity,
Contemplation and short prayer points to the objectivity of communion with god, if you think otherwise you are either an ignorant and/or a heretic, but for sure you're the irresponsible to trying other to conform to your schismatic reactionary views.

>being mindful of one's impulses and thoughts and not being led around by mere feelings.
Again, learn the full practice of 'contemplation' from the very treatise of your favorite contemplative saint, then realize that being mindful and not being led around of feelings, impulses or thoughts is the very practice of it, not hypnosis.

> I have OCD,
Well dude, that explains alot of your rigidity.
> and Christian thought has been pretty helpful with regards to seeing past the trappings of this kind of thing.
OCD is telling you those as trappings, you don't really know about 'contemplation' and regard it as hypnosis and new-agey hokey-pokey, even as being a hihgly regarded Catholic practice, thaught in highly acclaimed books as the inner castle by St Teresa
And you think that short prayers are "mantras", dude, 'Our Father' has only 10 lines, in dharmic religions the mantras could get way longer than that, your reasoning is so stiff , the 'Hail Mary' prayer has only 7 lines. Glory Be has 3 lines. The sign of the cross prayer has only 15 words... So if you think that praying using the word 'Jesus' in a row is as equal as saying OM or AUM or whatever the fuck, dude, you're totally nuts and a facist.

Anyway, I'm not going to point more about the rigid opinions of a an anonymous person with OCD, you have a medical problem and you're not suitable to practice mysticism, in the same way some disabled parishioners are not even suitable for some sacraments, as for your OCD gets you barred from taking the Holy Orders, for your own mental health and the well-being of the Church.

Keep practicing other common religious rites like going to mass, if that gives you enough peace of mind, forget about dark nights of the soul.

The Way of the Pilgrim
The Philokalia
The Ascetic Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian
The Ladder of Divine Ascent (advanced)

Rene Guenon provided many valuable writings in regards to Christian esotericism with this book and the Esotericism of Dante

Hey bruther Zen Catholic
Wait till you get the Eucharist/Zazen connection

Predddddy gud tbqh familia

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>tarot
are you joshing with me?

tarot and alchemy are serious shit my dude
t. Jungian

Anyone have a link to the "Gospel of Eve"? I heard it's a pagan pseudo-Christian text that advocates eating semen to become closer to God.

look if you want to eat semen you don't need a religious reason
just do it familia

there are only fragments copied by ancient historians.

>the cloud of unknowing
that is a beautiful, beautiful book.

t. filthy non-believer

i know this very well, but to include in christian mysticism chart.. no

i bet ur a faggot who cares about 'heresy' lol pussy

You have to understand that Christianity is far removed from the original faith of Israel user.

>Judaism is eternal
Yeah, no.

Only one Tribe of the Twelve Tribes of Israel was Judah user. The faith of the Netzarim is not the same as Judaism.

I was hoping to use it to seduce Christian qts.

In the midst of that night, in my darkness,
I saw the awesome sight of Christ
opening the heavens for me.
And he bent down to me and showed himself to me
with the Father and the Holy Spirit
in the thrice holy light --
a single light in three, and a threefold light in one,
for they are altogether light,
and the three are but one light,.
And he illumined my soul
more radiantly than the sun,
and he lit up my mind,
which had until then been in darkness.
Never before had my mind seen such things.
I was blind, you should know it, and I saw nothing.
That was why this strange wonder
was so astonishing to me,
when Christ, as it were, opened the eye of my mind,
when he gave me sight, as it were,
and it was him that I saw.
He is Light within Light, who appears
to those who contemplate him,
and contemplatives see him in light --
see him, that is, in the light of the Spirit...
And now, as if from far off,
I still see that unseeable beauty,
that unapproachable light, that unbearable glory.
My mind is completely astounded.
I tremble with fear.
Is this a small taste from the abyss,
which like a drop of water
serves to make all water known
in all its qualities and aspects?...
I found him, the One whom I had seen from afar,
the one whom Stephen saw
when the heavens opened,
and later whose vision blinded Paul.
Truly, he was as a fire in the center of my heart.
I was outside myself, broken down, lost to myself,
and unable to bear the unendurable brightness of that glory.
And so, I turned
and fled into the night of the senses.

Alphabet of Sirach

Its technically hebrew mysticism but you'd still find it very interesting.

Wiki: The Alphabet of ben Sirach (Alphabetum Siracidis, Othijoth ben Sira) is an anonymous medieval text inspired by the Wisdom of Sirach. It is dated to anywhere between 700 and 1000 CE. It is a compilation of two lists of proverbs, 22 in Aramaic and 22 in Hebrew, both arranged as alphabetic acrostics. Each proverb is followed by an Haggadic commentary. The work has been characterized as satirical, and it contains references to masturbation, incest and flatulence. The text has been translated into Latin, Yiddish, Judeo-Spanish, French and German. A partial English translation appeared in Stern and Mirsky (1998).

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Nice, is there any mystical poetry that's been written in originally in english?

compare this to this

I'm too tired
I'll do it later

Bunch of bullshit. If there was a chance of working, I'd try it.

How silly.

try it then big man

Jewish mysticism is better

I'm writing something set in the near future (like, 20, 30 years from now)- with Christianity as a central theme. What books, apart from the KJV and Aquinas would you recommend to me to fully inform my perspective of Christianity of the past, so that I can make a distinct, but credible Christianity of the future.

Thus far, I'm toying with the idea of Celtic/druidic inclusions, and closer attention to loving your neighbours despite their sins.

St Theresa has been on my list a while. I'm reading a book called Myth and Ritual in Christianity by Alan Watts, The New Testament and the Literary Imagination by David Jasper, and Bound to Sin by Alistair McFadyen. I do not think that these will be enough for even a cursory grounding. What would you suggest?

City of God and Confessions by St. Augustine
The Interior Castle by St. Theresa of Avila
Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterson
The Story of a Soul by St. Theresa of Avila
Also, use the New American Bible Revised Edition. In my opinion, I feel it is more modern in its word usage than the KJV.

Thank you so much!
That's a shame. I haven't picked up a paper Bible in a while and I found the Pennyroyal Caxton extremely pretty.

the Ignatius Press Study Bible (only NT atm) is worth it familia

I have nothing to gain from that.

What's good about it? I'm attracted to the Pennyroyal because gorgeous prose+ gorgeous woodcuts

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Nice to see that some people there read great stuff.

archive.org/details/lervlateurduglo00bloygoog