Cato the Elder

"Woman is a violent and uncontrolled animal... If you allow them to achieve complete equality with men, do you think they will be easier to live with? Not at all. Once they have achieved equality, they will be your masters..... All mankind rules its women, and we rule all mankind, yet our women rule us." - Cato The Elder (around 195BC ; Rome)

Best books about this based patrician?

Veeky Forums is a mostly liberal board. All for the liberation of womyn. Needless to say you aren't getting recommendations.

>CAREFUL WITH THE EDGE FAMOUS ANCIENT SENATUR AND HISTORIAN XDDXD!!1!1!

he kill hisself

No he didn't

did you even watch the show bruv

No, but you're probably thinking about Cato the younger who did kill himself when Caesar gained power.

you're right.

you should watch it though, it's great.

What show is it? I don't watch much tv.

It's Rome by HBO, but it isn't that great

it's dragged down by the annoying plot of the fictional characters, who draw far too much focus from the actually interesting historical figures the show should be about

you didn't post the full quote

"Woman is a violent and uncontrolled animal... If you allow them to achieve complete equality with men, do you think they will be easier to live with? Not at all. Once they have achieved equality, they will be your masters..... All mankind rules its women, and we rule all mankind, yet our women rule us, and carthage must be destroyed." - Cato The Elder (around 195BC ; Rome)

go back to Veeky Forums, dumb memer

So what is he meaning, let loose hoards of women into Carthage?

Carthage was the the leading edge of feminism. Around this time about 50% of the suffets in carthage were women.

Carthage fucked his wife. He takes it out on women because he wants to fuck Carthage so he can uncuck himself and conquer Wife-Carthage-Woman again.

Full(er) quote, from Livy, between books 30-35.

>“Citizens of Rome, if each one of us had set himself to retain the rights and the dignity of a husband over his own wife, we should have less trouble with women as a whole sex. As things are, our liberty, overthrown in the home by female indiscipline, is now being crushed and trodden underfoot here too, in the Forum. It is because we have not kept them under control individually that we are now terrorized by them collectively…It is to our shame, if we have to accept laws imposed through a secession of the women..Give a free rein to their undisciplined nature, to this untamed animal, and then expect them to set a limit to their own licence!…What they are longing for is complete liberty, or rather — if we want to speak the truth — complete licence… And what will happen if you allow them to seize these bonds, to wrest them from your hands one by one, and finally to attain equality with their husbands? Do you imagine that you will find them endurable? The very moment they begin to be your equals, they will be your superiors.”

Context: proposed repeal of a wartime (2nd punic war) austerity law limiting luxury. The specific issue in question is womens' rights to wear jewelry and purple robes, and the women have taken to the streets to protest against the men trying to keep the law in place.

>Pity the poor husband, if he yields! Pity him if he refuses, since what he does not give himself he will see given by another man!

And some of the counterpoints:

>“How haughty are our ears, if we resent the entreaties of decent women, although masters do not disdain the supplications of their slaves!”

“Are the trappings of your horse to be more splendid than the dress of your wife?”

Clear gender divide present even in arguments for the women's side:

>“Treatment like this would be enough to wound the feelings of men: what effect do you suppose it to have on the feelings of weak women, who are upset even by little things? No magistrates, no priesthoods, no triumphs, no insignia, no rewards or spoils of war can fall to them: elegance, adornment, dress — these are the insignia of women; in these is their delight and their glory."

Final reproach of the obstinate men:

>“You should want to be called fathers and husbands, rather than masters.”

Well, he was right

This guy was an asshole. I like the part of “I, Claudius” where he is being tutored by a great grandson of Cato who “like all mediocre people” keeps bragging about the deeds of his famous ancestor, as if they were his. The Claudius proceeds to dilapidate the image of Cato, showing that he was a petty, greedy and egocentric old man who would persecute people because they offended him, or kill many people for nothing in the wars only to have a triumph in his name, and that he considered Greek culture to be “degenerate” and “effeminate”.


His writings are also very boring and unwise: he has a narrow view of humanity and can’t put himself in the place of other, can’t think as if he were nested inside the skin of others. He is mostly like all conservatives: fearing change and complexity only because a simpler world and society if easier for dumb people to understand.


Also: he was of plebeian, not patrician ancestry.

Nice opinion, extrad.

Of which university are you a first year undergraduate?

lol, all those guys obsessed with “female freedom is ruining the world” and “guys are becoming effeminate and serving woman” are virgins who hardly have any relation with girls and women besides their own mothers, so how can they have any authority to speak?


He that mocks is the most interested in buying, the old proverb says, and frankly, I think this is the case with most of this people.

Just live and let live. Be yourself and don’t let anybody rule you, and who cares if others a re living their live to? Let girls live how they want to live and enjoy fucking them, just don’t let them boss you around. But this is not only the problem with women: if you let people boss you both guys and girls will do it.

>If you hate X, you are X
>Just b urself
>Golden rule

Congrats, you got the 3 biggest memes in one post.

You can say that “I, Claudius” is a fictional work, I know that. But if you search in historians for Cato’s character you will find that Robert Graves was actually describing him as he really was. He was a man of his time, but that does not save him – wise people generally reach conclusions and findings that set them apart of history and society, holding understanding about humanity that are forever modern and liberating.

Cato was just a military asshole. He was good in what he needed to be good, but to actually read him in search of wisdom and personal-growth is just plain stupid. Humanity has managed to move forward in spite of people like him, and not thanks to people like him.

Shit like pic related trigger Veeky Forums

...

Which Cato are you even talking about, boy?

Thorough rendition of the issues. Kill yourself.

I don’t care. I like women and they like me. My old girlfriend was hot, my present girlfriend is hot, and I don’t give a damn about bossing other people’s life. The more freedom to everyone the better; everyone should be able to do as they please as long as they don’t hurt the right of others.

How can you people be so neurotic about relations?

>>If you hate X, you are X


Ok, then I ask for the guy of that post to come forward and speak of his experience with girls. I know this is a hard thing to ask, but would he be capable of offering prove that he had at least one girlfriend once in his life?

Be honest, do you admire the guy? If yes, then why?

So you hate Islam?

I don’t like it very much, no. I do not think religious views should be used as law or have the force of law.

I think that, the more freedom one can offer to the largest number of people, the better.

The problem with Islam is that it is so old and preset in some parts of the world that people believe in the very roots of their being that they are living well and that life should be that way (even the people who are oppressed by its illogical doctrines).

>implying this is a bad thing

Women are animals just as much as the rest of us are. We all deserve equality, and therefore no truths should be hidden from them.

The quotation as presented is convoluted, self-contradictory rubbish. Care to explain?

What the fuck are you even talking about

Nobody "reads" Cato because nothing exists from the younger Cato, and all we have from the elder Cato is a treatise on farming. You are retarded. You have attempted to form opinions about facts from reading fiction. The only redeeming quality of your posts is your early citation of your "source" so that everyone on this board can identify you as a moron and ignore anything you say. This is what happens when you read historical fiction without a basis in real history.

Both the elder and younger Cato were badass conservatives of their times, who both stuck to their values against all odds. The elder is cited as singlehandedly sparking growing animosity betweeen Carthage and Rome which culminated in the third Punic war and concluded with Rome's solidification of her superiority in the Mediterannean. The younger remained a staunch Republican who saw through Caesar's image and fought to the end to keep the Republic alive. When all hope was lost, he "made no change in his routine except to embrace his son more warmly" before cutting himself open with a sword to avoid witnessing Rome fall under Caesar's control. When his friends found him and stitched him back up, he clawed the wound back open, lamenting the downfall of his country all the while.

"Cato was just a military asshole." Fuck you faggot, get the fuck off this board.

all of the roman senate was conservative as fuck you retard

>Both the elder and younger Cato were badass conservatives of their times,

that is not always a good thing.

>The elder is cited as singlehandedly sparking growing animosity betweeen Carthage and Rome which culminated in the third Punic war and concluded with Rome's solidification of her superiority in the Mediterannean.

Yes, and lots of people killed by no reason. It is good if you are Roman, but what if you are on the other side?

>The younger remained a staunch Republican who saw through Caesar's image and fought to the end to keep the Republic alive

That was good.

>Cato was just a military asshole

He was. Most of historical "heroes" were.

Plutarch was actually quite critical of him for just such attitudes towards women, the poor, slaves, old people, etc etc

The elder Cato is also the archeget of Latin prosa writing.

Please, just stop posting.

men are the real animals and always have been. They're illogical beasts

>Veeky Forums is a mostly liberal board.

Saying this again and again won't make it true.

Oh shut up

why do you assume that Veeky Forums is a liberal board?

There are more than 15 people here at any given time preventing this growth of the alt right here, as it always has been. Anything to prevent it from being an orgy of alt-right mucus

Your idea of "liberal" is bullshit, it just means what you disagree with. Grow up, child

>Your idea of "liberal" is bullshit, it just means what you disagree with. Grow up, child
And what do you think you know about my political opinions?

As for the 15+ people "preventing this growth of the alt right"—if the alt-right is such a problem that there must be at any given moment 15 people working against the natural growth of that group, then it sounds to me like the right-wing inclination of the board is not insignificant. If a little vigilance is all that stands between this board and an alt-right "orgy", then how left-wing is this board to begin with?

Claudius was a mediocre Emperor.

Alt-right, here. Did somebody say orgy?

Ayo, fuck the police

>Keeps calling others posters "kids" although he himself is probably on his twenties;
>Admits being in a kind of crusade for the righ-wing world-view in an anonymous imageboard;
>Among several historical figures, admires one that was not well respected even by descendants of a few generations in the future in the same country and culture (see Plutarch on Cato);
>Adopts a stupid opinion in OP although probably never have even slept with a girl;

Honestly, you must be a very unpleasant person. You're still young but already speaks like an grouchy and embittered old man.

And as for Cato, he should, of course, be understood in the contest of his own time and place, but to admire him today is a bit of an exaggeration. Admirable are the ones like Newton, Einstein, Buddha, Shakespeare, Beethoven, Democritus, Gandhi, Tolstoy, Maxwell, Bach, Mozart. Cato was a military and political leader of his epoch, the same as many other military and political leaders of every generation of humans through the ages and continents. You can study them and understand them, but admire them is more difficult (especially someone who thought like Cato).

how is Veeky Forums a liberal board? if anything Veeky Forums is socialist

>lumping my reasoned if aggressive response with some moron's blind and undefended vitriol

but why

when everyone's posting anonymously, it's hard to tell