Are some people just "bad at math", or is it a skill that anyone can learn?

lmao, the math you could have learned in highschool is babby tier compared to the stuff you need to learn

in other words, you are sad because instead of being 10 meters into the Everest, you are only 2 meters into the Everest

>However I'm 19 and it may be too late.

Nah bro, never too late to learn glorious math

It is sad because in my post I was going to finish with 'Assuming we are in the usual field over the reals' but thought it was not going to be necessary.

Now I got people shitting on me. I guess from now on I will always say that I am working on the usual field over the reals.

It's okay dude, I don't even know if it's boolean logic. I actually thought you would know what boolean logic is and tell me if it is or not.

Stop. Go into calculus right now and all the algebra and trig you'll actually need will naturally pop up, use time wisely.

Some people are better at it than others, but it is largely a trained skill; anyone can study enough to reach an advanced knowledge of mathematics.

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."
-"Aristotle"

I already know this, you're not exactly discouraging me any further.

Is that true? I'm afraid because I don't have strong fundamentals calculus will tear me a new asshole.

>ve to consider the most important to thing to develop any skill is your interest, if you always felt history was cooler than math, the

I'm literally doing the exact same thing now at 26, so it's definitely not too late. It pisses me off how they never taught the actual applications of this stuff when we were kids. Going back and learning Algebra now is actually *fun* because I can see all the applications in programming/science/engineering.

>you're not exactly discouraging me any further.
I was encouraging you to enjoy your holidays and stop worrying

sorry meant to quote
>tfw didn't take math seriously during high school
>want to do computer science and work on rendering engines or other graphics programming
>realize math itself can literally describe a universe
>cramming to learn all this shit I should have focused on in high school

>I don't have strong fundamentals
Exactly. Build up the ones you need for calculus and higher maths and ignore the useless shit. Ex: I never needed Thales' Theorem ever yet that's fundamental trigonometry.

The only algebra you need in Calculus 1 is how to solve equations

Everything else is trivial

I'm kind of in the same boat. Learning algebra fundamentals but getting really discouraged by the massive amount of memorization of calculation steps. I never have any trouble understand the relationships, but actually doing the factoring and simplifying just seems pointless to me when computers are designed for doing that stuff.

Depends on what people think maths is. Most people don't look beyond calculating something. They don't see maths being everywhere.

Maybe if they were taught sacred geometry and the golden ratio from a young age, things would make more sense to them.

>memorization of calculation steps
That's where you fucked up. Memorization really only helps you for remembering definitions but not any actual procedure beyond baby's first row reduction.

Algebra sucks ass but it's very useful in Calculus 2

I don't agree with this statement, many people have said there is a "minimum IQ" to do math.

Just like how there is a minimum IQ to learn aspects of language, many people with low IQ (70-80) struggle with english. => (which implies) they cannot learn math.

I believe the minimum iq lies somewhere 110 +/- 2 points. Sure you can learn your basic mathematics and maybe some calculus (how to compute derivatives). However understanding a proof takes creativity, abstract thought and pure logic. This a normal median IQ person would not be able to do.

Anyone else agree with this? I know many of my fellow students in pure math find other courses easy. For instance a bunch of us took business courses as our electives and found them absolutely boring but easy. Two of them even wrote the LSAT and scored a 172, and 175 respectively. Face it, I think to be able to do true mathematics (which is not simple arithmetic and derivative calculations ) you must have inertly a higher intelligence than average, or at least the capacity to think in abstract forms.

My IQ is 120 and I struggle with math

I know propositional logic and after looking about boolean algebra on wikipedia it looks like boolean algebra is propositional logic except that you are defining a field over the set {0,1} with the usual operations.

Assuming that is the case then that identity is false. Check pic related.

when a = 1, b= 0, c = 1 and d = 1 that equality does not hold..

Does every Veeky Forumsentist have his own white board or is it just you?

After I decided to major in math the first thing I did was buy a white board and a pack of markers.

How else am I going to prove people wrong on the internet?

Typing out this truth table on latex would have been a nightmare.

Simplification allows you to understand things clearer and easier. Why would you want to do more work than you need to when you can work smart?

Easy example :

Gauss's formula for computing sum of natural numbers.

how would you add the sum of all numbers 1-50->

You can tell a computer to do... 1+2+3+4....+50.

Or you can spend some time and see that 1->50 = 51, 2->49 = 51, 3-> 48 =51... oh lets see theres actually pairs here of 51?

In the end youll end up with a formula like this.

(50*51)/2

gives you the correct answer.

in general the formula is ((n)(n+1))/2

Programming this in a computer is much easier than using brute force arithmetic.

Please take the time to learn your mathematics man, it will save you so much hassle.

Yeah dude, it actually makes me angry thinking about how poorly math was taught to me and most people in America. We were indeed only taught the methods, but never the applications.

So basically just dive into calculus and it'll guide me through the required algebra/trig naturally? Or it's more like "go through calculus and if there's any trig bothering me go learn it on the side, then come back"?

can you solve this?

Lol this question is too easy.

Congratulations, you can take Calculus 1 no problem

What the hell is lm?

>go through calculus and if there's any trig bothering me go learn it on the side, then come back
Yeah, thats what I want you to do

wew lad

I think you should start a Calc -5

ln

Im not the same person as above Im actually in 4th year pure mathematics

But l I don't think being able to recognize base factors, and the rules of the natural logarithms is sufficient enough to pass calc 1.

I see it now, thanks.

mfw

media0.giphy.com/media/cyNYYuprfgL84/giphy.gif

made my day man top kek.

>linking to an image on an imageboard

come fucking at me nerd. Didn't feel like posting images.

>I believe the minimum iq lies somewhere 110 +/- 2 points.
What makes you give that number?}
I find it to be random. If it's about guessing, I'd say 90-95 and my guess wouldn't be better than yours.

In any case, your general statement is wrong, 70-80 IQ is diagnosed a learning disability - 20 points down to 90 is a HUGE difference, not even close to the almost insignificant difference between 90-110
There is certainly an minimum IQ to learn math, and but is not higher than the IQ that guarantees the person has not a mental disability

>However understanding a proof takes creativity, abstract thought and pure logic. This a normal median IQ person would not be able to do.
I find this to be random as well. Do you have any source or study? I studied pure math, and I'm well-convinced that anyone could have gone through the same studies with an average or even below average IQ.
I do believe that studying math requires more discipline and rigor and other fields of study, but this one is acquired by habit - which is shown by how many of us fail almost every elementary course in mathematics but later on we're able to take tests on more advanced courses (algebraic topology,ergodic theory, ommutative algebra, etc) with seemingly less effort - seemingly, because we were used to study in the particular way we need to study mathematics

I had one in high school because I was pretentious and I wanted to show off. Some of us go through that period at that age.
Now I use printer paper. It's cheap and faster than using a whiteboard.

>Is that true? I'm afraid because I don't have strong fundamentals calculus will tear me a new asshole.
Calculus is basic math. I good textbook should provide everything you need to know.
I suggest Apostol Calculus. Whatever you will need is introduced axiomatically. This text may seem odd because it introduces integration before derivation, but is one of the most systematic books there is.Otherwise,read Spivak.

Thanks for the prodding to follow what I already knew was the right path. It's hard, but I get that it's ultimately worth it.

That being said, beginning to truly learn math has opened my eyes to the universe in a way I could have never imagined. It's all I think about now. You see the relationships *everywhere* in *everything*. It's paradoxically brought me to begin believing in some type of "god". Not really a traditional theistic interpretation of the word, but in terms of a single unifying force that explains the universe and describes the interactions of matter.

>In any case, your general statement is wrong, 70-80 IQ is diagnosed a learning disability - 20 points down to 90 is a HUGE difference, not even close to the almost insignificant difference between 90-110

>There is certainly an minimum IQ to learn math, and but is not higher than the IQ that guarantees the person has not a mental disability

Isn't IQ a relative measurement of an individual's intelligence among their society?

How would an absolute number like IQ have any relevance to something that we presume to exist naturally, independently from the process of human thought, like mathematics?

>There is certainly an minimum IQ to learn math, and but is not higher than the IQ that guarantees the person has not a mental disability

your wording here is slightly off, please rephrase, actually most of it is riddled with errors.

>Do I have any source or study.
I gave an anecdotal response to back up my statement, but there are many studies that show high IQ is associated with mathematical ability. I am currently in my final year of pure mathematics, I have worked in finance, and statistics as my two coop terms. Those jobs seemed almost too easy compared to what I have gone through in ring theory, and galois theory.

And yes early childhood math education was boring and many of my friends did do poorly. However I am talking about a person at the age of 18+, not a child? I don't expect children to attempt to learn calculus. To be quite honest your entire reply to this was seemingly random.

You introduced habit as a motif for being gifted in mathematics, but I was simply talking about a general inert ability in "learning" mathematics. There are many of us who can achieve high grades, but not all can perform graduate level research and prove conjectures and theorems. This requires a true test of creativity and abstract thought which I am sorry... not even hard work can give you.

Yes, being "bad at math" is a skill that anyone can learn.

>to pass
i said to take

Here is a youtube video that may interest you.

Spinoza was a man who viewed god as not a person, but an idea. The way to commune with god is through the understanding of science and not the bible.

youtube.com/watch?v=pVEeXjPiw54&index=13&list=PLwxNMb28XmpeypJMHfNbJ4RAFkRtmAN3P

why would you take a class... and not intend to pass it.

That's enough knowledge a priori to pass.

It implies that he can solve any equation that may appear in Calculus 1.

It doesn't get more complicated than a logarithm or an exponential function.

Everything else can be learned.

You're just speaking non-sense now. Rearranging logarithms can be easily learned as well.

assuming you aren't functionally retarded, IQ and intelligence are more a measure of how long it takes you to learn certain concepts, not whether or not you can or can't to begin with.

of course everyone can learn math, but for some the time and effort investment simply aren't worth it when they could be learning other skills that they actually excel at.

If you have to start learning how to solve equations, you are wasting time

What kind of backwards ass university do you go too?

Calc 1 requires understanding of functions, sequence of limits, and if you are in math specialized calc, delta epsilon notation.

I think you should brush up on the following.

-Derivatives,
-factoring techniques (difference of squares)
-completing the square
-general optimization problems (taking the derivative =0 and such)

- solving linear equations such as 2 equations 2 unknowns (or in general n equations n unknowns).

- trig identities (this will help you with proofs)
- nature of functions (how to find vertical and horizontal asymptotes).

and when you're done all that look into integrals, they are the reverse of derivatives.

>on Veeky Forums
>telling someone they're wasting their time

None of those are taught in algebra, dunce

It's about the per-requesites for taking Calculus

not about Calculus itself

okay what country are we dealing with here? Where I am from we learn all this in 3rd and 4th year of highschool. There is no class called "algebra" in highschool, algebra is incorporated into the math we use. Its natural we use it in class.

I'm not even going to ask what backwards ass school you went too. But if you want to pass 1st year university calc with a good mark then you need to know that.

>I need to know the topics beforehand to get a good mark

>learning Calculus without set theory
What kind of backwards ass school did you go to?

Thanks that was great. It's always humbling when you realize that you've independently come to the same conclusions about reality as thousands of people for hundreds of years.

>You introduced habit as a motif for being gifted in mathematics, but I was simply talking about a general inert ability in "learning" mathematics.
I introduced habit as a motif for learning mathematics. Being gifted is something completely different - there isn't an amount of study that will make you the next terry.

>learning calculus without algebraic geometry
What kind of backwards ass school did you go to?

>algebraic geometry
Euclid, pls go.

Hey Euclid,

its Reimann, real math has curves.

>Are some people just "bad at reading", or is it a skill that anyone can learn?
>Are some people just "bad at walking", or is it a skill that anyone can learn?
>Are some people just "bad at eating", or is it a skill that anyone can learn?
>Are some people just "bad at breathing", or is it a skill that anyone can learn?

etc

I want a whiteboard too

Someone lost the coin flip

Yes

I didn't like math all through middle school and junior high then in high school i realized how beautiful numbers are and how much i actually loved the idea of mathematics. I started doing a lot better and now Im taking Advanced Physics next year

I'm also on the same boat, I'm 3 years older than you. I've learned algebra, now I'm learning geometry.

Is geometry relevant to calculus? Do I need it if I want to study higher math? I've already read 2 books about geometry now I'm on my third. Can I skip it and go straight to algebra 2 or pre-calculus? I find geometry very boring desu

>2 books about geometry
That's overkilling it

t. never read any math book and passed calculus 1, 2 and algebra

its newtonian problem

One book was for middle school the other for HS. The one I'm reading now is for college

I couldn't add fractions after high school, ended up leaving college with a first-class mathematics degree. It's never too late, especially at 19. You'll quickly realise how little you learnt in high school.

>tfw im in the same boat

I'm 34. Studying Math and Finance at undergrad.

You'll do great. Hang in there!

>Everyone can learn math
No.
General statements that begin with
"Everyone can learn to ..."
are almost always false. Examples
abound in advertising copy, where
the goal is to separate the hopeful
from their money.

>However I am talking about a person at the age of 18+, not a child? I don't expect children to attempt to learn calculus.

Being a 16 year old about to take Calc 2 this coming college term I believe that age has little to do with a person's ability to comprehend Maths. I agree with your previous point; there is some quality that allows someone to be well-versed in solving problems relating to logic and Maths. (Whether it be IQ or any other currently unknown quality.) Although it's agreeable that with age comes more in-depth understanding and fluidity when working with problems. (I think more because of the amount of time we sit and ponder the many theorems and identities we're taugh as we're younger and how we have to apply them in new contexts as we advance to higher Maths.)

nothing more to add

I don't care what others say, if you go into Calculus with very weak Algebra skills you're not going to do well. Sure you might be able to solve basic equations but when stuff gets complex you're going to be completely lost. Go through Khan Academy and learn how to solve equations and learn some basic trig (unit circle, what the functions mean, basic identities). A lot of calculus is manipulating equations so be comfortable knowing how to work through problems and contort them to a solution.

>memorise unit circle rather than learning how to graph in radians and know what the hell a reference angle is
Stop making him do more work for something that doesnt need so much, its not impressing anyone.

Does your brain get slower when you get older? I plan on graduating at the military academy of my country and then work on a mathematics degree.

Did I say memorize it? I meant be familiar with it and understand what you are doing with the trig and where it comes from.

Sure, people are disadvantaged in doing certain things. That isn't to say they can't do it well if they try.

Perhaps intelligence is inherent. But math, science, etc. aren't purely intelligence based. It can speed up the learning process but no one is born good at math.

Not even Gauss? Newton? That Korean kid that did calculus as a kid?

Not that user but take this into consideration, what if the foundations and tools of math wasn't present during their lifetimes?

Surely your examples have inquisitive and logical minds so it's at least guaranteed that they would be able to draw unique observations and conclusions about the world around them. But there is no innate math ability, just a compatibility to the structure and processes that is known as math.

Look at it another way, there's very little difference in the anatomy of humans today and humans a thousand years ago. But most modern sports that utilize that anatomy did not exist a thousand years back. Because of this only the humans of today can exploit and present a series of traits that can be viewed by the public as being "talented" in these modern sports.

It's very likely however that a number of humans a thousand years ago would be able to express these same traits in the sports of today if they were given the opportunity to do so. This is despite the fact said modern sports didn't exist at that time so there was no way for their genome to adjust for the sports in question.

The point is your examples were fortunate enough to be born at times where they could exploit their "compatibility" to a developing structure such as math or science.

I haven't noticed a decline, but I can't speak for everyone. It's true what they say about the brain being a muscle, though, so do what you can to keep it in shape.

I have never been that good at math.

I took a retarded test at the beginning of highschool that placed me into geometry, skipping algebra 1 algebra 2 and trig.

I had never taken a single algebra course, and I mostly just barely figured out the problems on the test and used guesstimation to figure it out.

Just finished my last math courses, calc 3, vector calc, and linear/PDE.

Got like C's in most of them and a B in one.

Pretty retarded desu

Yes mathematics is a skill that everyone can learn, but it is an acquired taste. It's sort of like falling in love. Everyone will eventually do it but not everyone will fall in love with the same thing. I know that is a very vague statement but what I'm trying to say is that not everyone will like it but everyone will use it to some extent. I am one of those people who really fell in love with mathematics. I'll admit when I was a child I wasn't mature enough to appreciate its ability but as I started getting older my eyes were opened to see the infinite beauty that mathematics holds. I would much rather study math then watch a movie, play a video game, or read a book. I spend about 6 or 7 hours a day studying math. I won't lie part of the reason I am able to do this is because I am antisocial. People don't very much like me and I don't very much like them. I truly believe that mathematics exists in the universe and it is more then just a way for man to understand the world around him. It's a way of life. The more mathematics I learn, the more I realize how much we don't know and it inspires me to want to climb the mountain of knowledge and push the human race forward.

I am a senior in HS and I study: ODEs, linear algebra, real and complex analysis, advanced calculus, and game theory.

>Being a 16 year old about to take Calc 2
That's not math anymore than knowing a multiplication table.
Also, underage b&.

G-going into Calc 1 next year, and I forget how to do this.. well I just forget the rules of natural logarithms, even though I remember that shit being incredibly easy when I learned it.

Logarithms were only covered very very briefly in my high school math. Is it too extreme to say if you forget the properties of natural logs then you're not ready for Calc 1? Stuff that was taught in high school math and that I never used afterwards doesn't stick to me well, I always need to go back and get a refresher. How can I make small shit like this stick?

I-i'm good at math but this post made me nervous

Take your pedophile cartoons back to .

College-level Calc II is basically this: Limits, derivatives, very basic integrals. Some theory & word problems mixed in.

As long as you can find limits of, and take the derivatives of various functions including ln & e, you'll be fine. Differentiation isn't even computationally heavy - it's the easiest month of Calc you'll have.

Calculus is literally one new concept. Everything else is just high speed algebra and trig.

People who suck at calculus are the faggots who fucked off in their lower level math classes and didn't really learn the material. Go review your algebra book. Particularly logs/exponents, factoring, polynomials, and sigma summation.