Rap

Do Hip-Hop lyrics possess any deeper meaning, or hold any literary values worthy of being analyzed by scholars? If so, how could this be done, or are there any examples of this being done before?
BONUS: Try to break down and analyze lyrics of your favorite Hip-Hop song, or let others do it for you.

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youtube.com/watch?v=Tz6OUIjtM6E
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Not a single rap song is worth your time lyrically

>Do Hip-Hop lyrics possess any deeper meaning
pretty fucking obvious if you just listen to some

>or hold any literary values worthy of being analyzed by scholars?

lol

no

and i really wish you would stop making this thread

[Slug:]
Descending on the center, from the outskirts of obscurity
With a raised fist, symbolization of the urgency
Strength blowing kisses and winks toward adversity
Subtle yet as vital as the ink on your currency...

[Sole:]
I’m currently spiraling sinking inking melatonin
Toning governing soft naturally firm in “lost
Fell off the edge of the whirlpool” thoughts
Intangible, in this civilization
Lacing loud scream slew attachment to parchment
In my apartment, we all wear yellow rubber jackets
[Slug:]
Give me some more i’d like to taste
Swallow it whole and wipe your face

[Alias:]
Tickling at your sense of thought
This square is brought for knowledge

[Doseone:]
Apply, it ripples twisting, twisting your gnomes trickle

[Sole:]
Or lack of the above, this crowd submerge yourself in puddles

[Alias:]
Light reflecting off soft waves
Make it a blurred aspect subject
To ponder the vertical dynamics of further respect
One cannot truly feel the mass between the top and bottom points
H20 is a symbolism we have chosen to use as an anointment, thoughts are sent
Thinking it skimming it skip in
Dip in my entire action creator and popular inflator
Flotation devices are your vices- dislocate your elevator
Later you will yearn and pray for liquid form break from the norm
Open wide face up to attempt to and take particles from the storm

[Doseone:]
You’ve thirst for substance of decisive ground
Twice as round as your skin’s tough, wait, no, further
We touch bottom and break surface depth as our eldest daughter
With your eyes and no one's fear

[Hook by Slug:]
I took a dip last week through the liquid that gathered
Near the tip of that peak that exists in my matter
I taught myself to survive without my feet on the ground
I never felt so alive as when I drowned...
[Doseone:
A pebble moistened, vines dripped, drip, blessed drip, were saved, a puddle...]

[Doseone:]
Bestill the shores bend and splash
Heavy rye on life preserve...

[Sole:]
But still pouring friend, i’m asking asphalt may i melt here
Beat down by the aquarium that we all deserve to break from

[Slug:]
Reflecting what's observed
Deep, straight, and every curve

[Alias:]
Swerve and meant to contend with four with life form purposes served

[Sole:]
I put my greatest foot into the ice cold pool

[Doseone:]
And roll off the most intense of steps been ever...

[All:]
The rebels, leviathin, risen, prominence
Wet stone, monolith, drinking, continence

[Doseone:]
And the unanimous, smells leaking definitely
Is sour of audience, captive, isn’t it
The end and the all-muddied, that’s our humble home
“you” is a soaked in yes...

[All:]
Release, niagara, anxious, fragments
Pause, deep puddle dynamics

i love rap
i love poetry

the answer is no. do like mike eagle does and call it art rap, it's not and never will be literature

[Sole:]
We, an arched antartical snow ball, falling through the deserts

[Doseone:]
Set sensitive, a fluid too present for dense

[Slug:]
I see numerous seeds free-floating upon the chemistry

[Alias:]
Evaporation is non-existence in this conglomerate form by energy

[Slug:]
The dawn contorts the destiny, pathway unpredictable
Ripples hold the visions, a chisel in it now positions...

[Alias:]
Visions waving and squiggling constantly moving hard to realize my eyes
Ears in listening are tools for saving you from your intelligence demise

[Hook by Slug:]
I took a dip last week through the liquid that gathered
Near the tip of that peak that exists in my matter
I taught to myself to survive without my feet on the ground
I never felt so alive as when I drowned...

[Doseone:]
A pebble moistened, vines dripped, drip, blessed drip, were saved, a puddle...

[Alias:]
Do you understand the presentation of, dynamics
Do you understand the innovation of dynamics...

[Sole:]
I’m in love with a flying mermaid, she brings me glass of air and plates
Sings me songs of how we used to love concrete
All my dreams are coral reefs, and my love is a tree
And we view shattered moon like chattering
Of all the things we (gonna) wanta (oughta) be

[Doseone:]
My sweet sound safe cab beauty is far up longing stare at the determined mariner

[Alias:]
Navigating through those debating our interest value
Envisioning a reach to arrive on an island where anxious waiters fill the beach...

[Slug:]
Surfacing for breath, inhale, and then return to the depths
Submerged in the verses where the worth is kept

[Sole:]
Viceless, exotic, exciting 'til we evaporate
Draw my mass upon your peninsula, aquatic colors to illustrate...

[Doseone:]
The sailing power set within a siren stone...

[Alias:]
Longing to reach the shore, engulf themselves in music free of pours of midian...

[Slug:]
My word is my springboard
Wearing my water wings for, the dive...

[Sole:]
And i slit my throat for gills in the event I gotta survive...

[Doseone:]
We are the raft, the bank, the drift, the kelp
The 40,000 leagues of inspiration treasured never discovered

[Alias:]
Untouched by timeless traveling, amoebas see the crest overbearing
No sea-faring individuals are present in my crowd staring...

[Slug:]
Standing, fathoming the distance, between the existing rationalizations
Against the average pistons fascinations
It’s handheld, however as hard as the waves break
It would take eight hands to craft the puzzle of the puddle’s sake

[Hook by Slug:]
I took a dip last week through the liquid that gathered
Near the tip of that peak that exists in my matter
I taught to myself to survive without my feet on the ground
I never felt so alive as when i drowned...

[Doseone:]
A pebble moistened, vines dripped, drip, blessed drip, were saved, a puddle...

[Alias:]
Do you understand the presentation of, dynamics
Do you understand the innovation of dynamics...

[Sole:]
Were all having fun, laying in the moss
Layed down the tower, before we all trip
One finger, two finger, three finger pregnant...

[All:]
Row row row your reel, gently down the stream
Merrily merrily merrily merrily, life is but a sinking feeling...

>all these meme backpacker lyrics

just post some DOOM phamme

>Tripping off the beat kinda, dripping off the meat grinder
>Heat niner, pimping, stripping, soft sweet minor
>China was a neat signer, trouble with the script
>Digits double dipped, bubble lipped, subtle lisp midget
>Borderline schizo, sort of fine tits though
>Pour the wine, whore to grind, quarter to nine, let's go
>Ever since ten eleven, glad she made a brethren
>Then it's last down, seven alligator seven, at the gates of heaven
>Knocking, no answer, slow dancer, hopeless romancer, dopest flow stanzas
>Yes, no? Villain, Metal face to Destro
>Guess so, still incredible in escrow
>Just say Ho! I'll test the yayo
>Wild West style fest, y'all best to lay low
>Hey bro, Day Glo, set the bet, pay dough
>Before the cheddar get away, best to get Maaco
>The worst hated God who perpetrated odd favors
>Demonstrated in the perforated Rod Lavers
>In all quad flavors, Lord save us
>Still back in the game like Jack LaLanne
>Think you know the name, don't rack your brain
>On a fast track to half sane
>Either in a slow beat or that the speed of "Wrath of Kane"
>Laughter, pain
>"Hackthoo'ing" songs lit, in the booth, with the best host
>Doing bong hits, on the roof, in the west coast
>He's at it again
>Mad at the pen
>Glad that we win, a tad fat, in a bad hat for men
>Grind the cinnamon, Manhattan warmongers
>You can find the villain in satin, congas
>The van screeches
>The old man preaches
>About the gold sand beaches
>The cold hand reaches
>For the old tan Ellesse's
>Jesus...

if you niggas wanna debate some deep shit then wees needs to be talkin bout niggas like:
immortal technique
beast 1333
canibus
cunniing linguists
locksmith
son of saturn
atmma
ect....

lmao gr8 b8 m8 r8 8/8

Immortal Technique is the only answer

The problem with the shitty "deep" and "lyrically dense" rappers is that it's super fucking corny. Rapping about knowledge and government conspiracies screams autism. Their flow is also typically shit and they have no charisma.

Aesop Rock is the pinacle of this horseshit, spewing big words with no regard to comprehensiveness while his fans scream "U JUST DONT GET IT".

Doom is the only acceptable form of this because he still has fun doin it, has a cool gimmick, and is a fantastic producer or otherwise chooses great beats.

Blue Scholars
Brother Ali
People Under the Stairs
Classified
dead prez
Common Market
Deltron 3030
Collective Efforts
Sweatshop Union
Atmosphere
Poor Righteous Teachers
Wise Intelligent

Few more:

Eyedea and Abilities
CYNE
Zion I
Dan le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip
Binary Star
Hieroglyphics

>He hasn't heard of the greatest poet of this generation

>it's a Veeky Forums pretends the uneducated street thugs of Harlem are poetic geniuses episode

DOOM is meme backpack rap too.

good post

Only rappers care about meter nowadays. Poets are too far gone.

Hip hop-listening pseuds from /mu/ are too illiterate to search the fucking archive and stop posting this terrible thread over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. If the average hip hop fan operates at a similar level of reading comprehension as the average rapper, the answer is a definite NO.

Most people on Veeky Forums don't do this, probably because they've actually taken a literature class. These threads are almost entirely populated by crossposting teens from Veeky Forums's biggest pseud containment board who regularly come here to fish for approval of their favorite pop music.

>Do hooting chimp noises possess any deeper meaning, or hold any literary values worthy of being analyzed by scholars?

no

Deep Puddle Dynamics and Doom are both actually good, though. It's idiotic to take these meaningless labels seriously as if it's something undesirable to listen to genuinely good music.

Don't fool yourself, Veeky Forums is just as poseurish as any other board on this site.

the fact that rap uses multi-syllabic rhyming and the phonaesthetic nature of rap lyrics makes the art form a million times better than conventional poetry.

people feel more emotion when a poem is rapped especially if the person is modulating their voice and have a particular tone that suits the poem/rap context.

also, there are covers on youtube of people rapping to dante inferno, etc. for the most part RAPPING has no relation to being different than poetry. hip-hop does more so because it has cultural connotations.

dont reply to me with ignorance

>the fact that rap uses multi-syllabic rhyming and the phonaesthetic nature of rap lyrics makes the art form a million times better than conventional poetry.

no

>people feel more emotion when a poem is rapped especially if the person is modulating their voice and have a particular tone that suits the poem/rap context.

no

>also, there are covers on youtube of people rapping to dante inferno, etc. for the most part RAPPING has no relation to being different than poetry. hip-hop does more so because it has cultural connotations.

no

you are so arrogant and condescending despite lacking in a good argument to say why rap is not poetry besides spewing immature racist comments and baseless assumptions about an entire genre

...

As if he majority of Veeky Forums threads in the catalog aren't posted on a weekly basis. I swear there's a thread on the Beats at least once a day.

This is the type of stupid shit academia lives for.

>Unpacking The Unconventional Feminism of Young Thug, by Stasia Rosenthal
>By "eating the booty ju like groceries", Thug transcends traditional black masculinity, submitting to a woman entirely, in an atavistic resurgence of late paleolithic divinity. Thug's own "Venus of Willendorf" can be viewed as...

>the fact that rap uses multi-syllabic rhyming and the phonaesthetic nature of rap lyrics makes the art form a million times better than conventional poetry.
Poetry does this though? You're trying to argue that hip hop is better than poetry for using poetic techniques. It doesn't make sense. If you're going to hold up hip hop as great because of its usage of those techniques then of course poetry is going to be superior because the poet has access to an infinitely larger range of available techniques. What's more is that he also has more freedom to manipulate and organize those techniques into a cohesive whole, making his usage more complex.

>people feel more emotion when a poem is rapped especially if the person is modulating their voice and have a particular tone that suits the poem/rap context.
I strongly disagree. A rap is usually performed in an aggressive and confrontational manner which is a very limited and immature emotion suited only for extremely few works of literature. Similarly, the chanting nature of a rap does not fit the rhythms and pauses of all poems, which vary extensively and frequently emphasize complex breaks, subtle metres, and unique pronunciations that a 4/4 beat cannot keep up with. Inserting a poem inside a hip hop context is usually a terrible idea.

>also, there are covers on youtube of people rapping to dante inferno, etc. for the most part RAPPING has no relation to being different than poetry. hip-hop does more so because it has cultural connotations.
Rapping, like a poetry recitation, is by definition performed to a beat. The differences lies in the complexity of the beat that gives the language music. Poetry constructs its own rhythms and melodies, it organizes its own sound through the poet's interpretation of language, whereas raps are pseudo-improvisational attempts to keep up with a simple prerecorded beat--they have their language organized for them by another source. The cultural deficits of hip hop, like giving more thought is given to puns and boasts than images, language, and ideas, or extreme reliance on slang and rhyme, also contribute to its mediocrity. There are massive differences between the two

Hip hop is poetry, but it's such mediocre poetry that one could only compare it to the heights of thousands of years of Western culture out of sheer ignorance. Nobody who has seriously studied Dante, who has dug through his forgotten political references, his cantos, his insights, his theological concerns, his command of language, is ever going to argue that 2Pac is the superior poet

That's Jhene Aiko's line

To Pimp a Butterfly is a better sell of existentialism than The Stranger to be honest with you.

What an aggressively retarded opinion

>>>/reddit/

The Stranger:
>whoa, like, I'm going to kill this arab and be executed for nothing because whatever xD

>These threads are almost entirely populated by crossposting teens from Veeky Forums's biggest pseud containment board who regularly come here to fish for approval of their favorite pop music.

>tfw Veeky Forums is stuck in their books and can't appreciate both music and literature for their artistry

To Pimp A Butterfly:
>bitches and money nigga, weed lmao, bix nood dindu nuffin

youtube.com/watch?v=Tz6OUIjtM6E

Shakespeare's heavily used slang, puns, and colloquial language. Quit pretending, pseud.

Slammin' with my youngin’s, couple hundred onions
Breaking down them 20’s what you need, we got it for you
Chop a chicken down to chicken nuggets for my cluckers
Spray that Cutlass, threw them Forgiato's on that motherfucker
Gangsta Gibbs ho'
Fresh up off the powder pan, so low on the ‘94
Bitch, I want that powder bag, geekers do that zombie walk
Bitch, I let the chopper talk
Niggas get to talking, ch-ch-chop ‘em off like Tomahawks
Ch-ch-chop ‘em off like Tomahawks
Eight thousand capsules of molly
Yeah, selling dope, and robbing, momma I dropped out of college
Yeah, jumped off on this rap shit, I’ve been one hundred solid
Yeah, police ever catch me then they gon’ catch a body

>Breaking Reddit reaction image

you're not helping your case kid

...

It's not your slaying of one of the laziest, fattest, and easiest sacred cows that bothers me, it's your blatant ignorance of the definition of existentialism

I didn't dock points for usage, I docked points for "extreme reliance" as in, "is clearly incapable of other techniques, so sticks to this only." Shakespeare used slangs, puns, and colloquial language; he also used every other technique in the book in an extremely complex manner. Please don't call me a pseud if you can't even be bothered to read my post before replying to it

This feelin' is unmatched
This feelin' is brought to you by adrenaline and good rap
Black Pendleton ball cap
(West, west, west)
We don't share the same synonym, fall back
(West, west, west)
Been in it before internet had new acts
Mimicking radio's nemesis made me wack
My innocence limited the experience lacked
Ten of us with no tentative tactic that cracked
The mind of a literate writer, but I did it in fact
You admitted it once I submitted it wrapped in plastic
Remember scribblin' scratchin' dilligent sentences backwards
Visiting freestyle cyphers for your reaction
Now I can live in a stadium, pack it the fastest
Gamblin' Benjamin benefits, sinnin' in traffic
Spinnin' women in cartwheels, linen fabric on fashion
Winnin' in every decision
Kendrick is master that mastered it
Isn't it lovely how menaces turned attraction?
Pivotin' rappers, finish your fraction while writing blue magic
Thank God for rap, I would say it got me a plaque
But what's better than that?
The fact it brought me back home

>Remember scribblin' scratchin' dilligent sentences backwards

DUUUUUUUDE

I'm arguing that rap is a form of poetry which is more advanced than conventional poetry that doesn't have significant usage of multisyllabic rhyming. Rappers have a larger vocabulary than previous poets and making complex rhyming look easy.

Rap is not always performed in an aggressive and confrontational manner. There exists plenty of rap in a lower BPM (beats per minute) and a chill tone. Plenty of raps use line breaks. -"Unique pronunciation" What do you mean by this?

Not all raps are written with a beat in mind. FYI. Sometimes a producer will create a beat that suits the content and flow of the rap. Rap has a far superior melody and rhythmic because of the fact it is music and poetry isn't.

I agree with you that rap primarily is braggadocios and lacks the imagery and ideas that poetry does. I'm not arguing that rap is more complex in it's meaning right now than in poetry. Rap is very new compared to conventional poetry. It has a lot time to grow. There are raps that I would argue are up to the standards of great poems but as a whole, conventional poetry is significantly better. We live in a different culture. Everything is more simple and the way we talk is vastly different. Poets need to keep up with this. Rap has obviously replaced poetry as the medium to communicate the kinds of ideas that poems conveyed for the fact that it is music. From a phonaesthetic view, rapping sounds better axiomatically because it's music and because you have to manipulate the words in order for the rap to sound good. The delivery/flow is contingent on the mood of the rap. It can be anything. Rap has replaced poetry. It's more popular and will continue to be. Most of the new generation would consider rap to be poetry and that it replaced it. The only people who argue otherwise are disgruntled pretentious academics, although they have a point. Our culture is much dumber than it use to be. Regardless of this, rap is still a better medium for expressing ideas and conveying emotion than poetry and is rhythmically superior.

I don't think rappers are more intelligent than poets but I do think rap without it's culture (hiphop) is superior than poetry. Most poetry was performed. I think this tradition should be upheld and poets should mainly be rappers

...

>resorting to argumentum ad populum
>making claims that rap will usurp poetry even though rap has been around longer than most people on Veeky Forums have been alive and yet people here still read and enjoy poetry

It's a matter of quality, and I wouldn't expect a brainlet to understand.

Argumentum ad populum is irrelevant here. If you establish the the teleological foundation of both poetry and rap is to convey meaning and emotional and use phonaesthetics then appeal to popularity is important.

Rap has already overtaken poetry though. Just not in quality of work.

Well, if it's not as good as poetry then quit parading it around like it is.

>Most poetry was performed. I think this tradition should be upheld and poets should mainly be rappers

the fact that most poetry was traditionally orally handed down doesn't have anything to do with rap, nor does it mean rap is superior

rap is urban folk poetry perpetuated by the lower classes and it's going to stay that way. if you really think rap is going to be the dominant form of poetry on the level of greek or roman or romantic poets even 100 years from now you're gonna have a rude awakening

The quality of the content is inferior. The artform is not.
The fact you are basing intelligent on class proves how much of a unlikable, pretentious idiot you are. Because poetry being traditionally performed orally and rap being performed orally means that they have greater connection on the level that the audience is receiving what is being conveyed than oral poetry and conventional poetry. Rap is the dominant form of poetry right now, regardless of what you say. This isn't my opinion. It's a fact. This is irrelevant to how long a rap will withstand.

your argument is shit and you are stupid.

>Because poetry being traditionally performed orally and rap being performed orally means that they have greater connection on the level that the audience is receiving what is being conveyed than oral poetry and conventional poetry

this sentence is word salad and if people who writr like you are the future of "poetry" then we are in a bad spot

you are engaging in apologetics for unintelligent prole nigger "poetry" in a way that makes me suspect that you either are an unintelligent prole nigger or you want to be one badly. I suspect you have never read homer or ovid or the romantics, I suspect you came over here from /mu/ after listening to the latest backpack rapper meme album that suburban middle class teenagers fawn over

tldr your argument is shit and you are stupid

...

You call it a word salad because you are too stupid to understand it. Again, you demonstrate your low level of intelligence by being racist. I have read more poetry than you. I am not even American. I browse this board regularly.

I was just memeing m8

what you posted was not an argument, you are barely capable of writing coherently, you don't actually read and you think "racist" is an insult. you're an idiot and your taste in "poetry" reflects this

back to /mu/ you go

>Rappers have a larger vocabulary than previous poets and making complex rhyming look easy.
Rappers employ a larger vocabulary than previous poets, that doesn't mean they necessarily have a bigger vocabulary.

im not reading this dumbass thread, someone boil down these arguments so i can tell you why you're a retard for thinking rap is poetry

user's sentence might have been put together better but he did best you m8

>I suspect you have never read homer or ovid or the romantics
nigger I've read Homer, Ovid and the Romantics and he's right. You're making judgements based on cultural bias instead of addressing the format honestly. You're more concerned about the image of "prole niggers" than the reality. You've been memed.

Because it's popular and muh teleological phonaesthetics, and

>im not reading this dumbass thread, someone boil down these arguments so i can tell you why you're a retard for thinking rap is poetry
There is no coherent definition of poetry that excludes rap.

isn't it technically poetry tho?

that's the stupidest argument i've ever heard.
i've proved both of you wrong
it is poetry, both of these people replying to me have stated that it's "nigger" version of slam poetry basically.

I don't believe rap is even close to being poetry, I just wanted to see if it could roughly be analyzed as such and if some people have tried to do so.

>I don't believe rap is even close to being poetry,
state why

just read you cretin

Question: Why would you want people to think rap is poetry? Are you trying to belittle the accomplishments of Homer and Dante Alighieri?

>that's the stupidest argument i've ever heard.
I didn't even make an argument in that post, I was simply stating a fact.

I personally value being able to say more through less anyhow.

The word poetry doesn't denote quality.

poetry is literature, literature is written. not all rap is written. or we can ignore that and say something about greeks blah blah oral blah blah, yeah we get it. "literature" implies some sort of lasting credit or "higher" merit. rap doesn't have a superior merit. "but that's subjective!" yeah i guess technically you can say that, but if you can read shakespeare next to idk denzel curry or some "art" rapper like that pseud milo and say "yeah these are similar" i think that says more about your character than it does about whether rap is poetry or not. waste of time arguing this because muh objectivity so I'm going to take the high ground and be condescending toward everything you reply to me from here on because you think rap is poetry and i think that's silly

It's technically poetry but they can't really make it as meaningful as '''real''' poetry. So just take rap lightly, like it is meant to be taken

Thomas succ

Yes, it can be. Go to rap.genius and click on a Kendrick song, or sth. You'll see plenty of analysing.


is a big point

you haven't proven shit against me you fucking monkey
>it is poetry, both of these people replying to me have stated that it's "nigger" version of slam poetry basically
you have me confused with someone else buddy, I've only posted three times in this thread previous to this.

>I'm arguing that rap is a form of poetry which is more advanced than conventional poetry that doesn't have significant usage of multisyllabic rhyming
What is conventional poetry? I sincerely don't know what that means. Who do you consider to be a "conventional" poet, and why? I would consider most rappers to be "conventional poets" since they are extremely reliant on the cliches and conventions of poetry

>Rappers have a larger vocabulary than previous poets and making complex rhyming look easy.
Rappers speak more than "previous poets," who take their time to write and publish something rather than shoving a constant stream of rhyming words on top of music. The fact that rappers have big mouths doesn't make their words more valuable. Simply using a word isn't the same thing as using it in a creative and unique manner

>Rap is not always performed in an aggressive and confrontational manner. There exists plenty of rap in a lower BPM (beats per minute) and a chill tone.
Hence my usage of the word "usually" rather than "always"
>Plenty of raps use line breaks.
Yes, I have acknowledged the prosody of hip hop music many many times now. What you don't seem to be getting is that usage of a poetic technique isn't enough, you have to use it in an original and intelligent way in order for it to have value as literature. It can have value as music, it can contribute to a musical mood or idea, but that's not necessarily the same as literary value. When you rob rap of its beat and performer, the words fall totally flat.

>-"Unique pronunciation" What do you mean by this?
As in a word that for example must be pronounced with an Irish accent in order to fit the metre, a metre that could easily contradict a 4/4 beat

>Not all raps are written with a beat in mind. FYI. Sometimes a producer will create a beat that suits the content and flow of the rap.
Raps without an outside beat are not yet raps. Raps are intended to be performed over a beat (usually an extremely simple one) even if that beat hasn't been written yet. The situation you are describing, where the producer builds his music around the rapper rather than the rapper building his words around the music, is incredibly rare

(1/?)

>Rap has a far superior melody and rhythmic because of the fact it is music and poetry isn't.
Poetry is a form of music or organized sound. Its rhythms and melodies can be much more intricate than that of a rap, which is again a mediocre form of poetry, because they aren't bound by musical structures and audience accessibility

>There are raps that I would argue are up to the standards of great poems
Probably because you don't understand why those poems are considered great or what their standards are in the first place

>Poets need to keep up with this.
But many do? You're making it obvious that you either do not read contemporary poetry or for some reason think it doesn't exist

>Rap has obviously replaced poetry as the medium to communicate the kinds of ideas that poems conveyed for the fact that it is music.
I really don't understand this leap in logic. What kinds of ideas does hip hop express that poems can't?

>From a phonaesthetic view, rapping sounds better axiomatically because it's music and because you have to manipulate the words in order for the rap to sound good.
And this is different from poetry how? Your entire argument is predicated on the assumption that raps are different from poetry, which at the same time you argue is the same thing. Stop contradicting yourself. Raps virtually never sound better as literature than the canon poets; they sound simpler, more aggressive, sloppier, and lazier.

>The delivery/flow is contingent on the mood of the rap. It can be anything.
It can't be anything. If you start to rap off the beat the entire effect is ruined. Rappers who don't know how to stay on beat fail in their attempt to create euphonic sounds and instead produce dissonance


(2/3)

Rap shouldn't be taken as poetry because the music in rap/hip-hop is such an important part of a rap song (and any song for that matter) that something's lost when only the words are present to be deciphered. I'd say the same thing for Dylan, Van Zandt, Waits, etc.

>Rap has replaced poetry. It's more popular and will continue to be.
Again, rap cannot replace poetry because it is itself a mediocre form of poetry. I agree it's more popular than the poems taught in school because it is much easier, much more accessible, much less challenging, much more shallow, and simpler in virtually every way, but the fact that millions of people like it doesn't give it literary value.
>Most of the new generation would consider rap to be poetry and that it replaced it.
Most of the new generation has never read poetry outside a couple Shakespeare sonnets in their public school. I'd like to highlight this as another example of you claiming that rap is better than poetry as well as being poetry at the same time (as well as having replaced it).

>The only people who argue otherwise are disgruntled pretentious academics, although they have a point. Our culture is much dumber than it use to be. Regardless of this, rap is still a better medium for expressing ideas and conveying emotion than poetry and is rhythmically superior.
I don't think you know what you're arguing anymore.

>I don't think rappers are more intelligent than poets but I do think rap without it's culture (hiphop) is superior than poetry. Most poetry was performed. I think this tradition should be upheld and poets should mainly be rappers
Poetry is still often performed today. Most poets today are rappers, which might have something to do with the fact that most poetry is not very good. I don't think you know very much about poetry, so I'm confused as to why you would want to compare hip hop to it.

(3/3)

No. Yes. It quite literally depends on your opinion, there's no universal definition of poetry. Anything can be poetry, if you want it to be. That's why it's a joke, rap CAN be poetry if your character is poor enough to take it as that

>it's a pretentious backpacker thread again

lol the brainlets even made up a word for someone who doesn't like their retarded music. amazing.

nobody compared shakespare to denzel curry though you are cherrypicking and your premise before that was beyond retarded.

equating rap with poetry is basically cultural reparations. black culture doesn't matter unless white people acknowledges it as equally good, it's all very depressing

>so butthurt he can't help but to add inane quips to troll posts

>are you le butthurt

*tips backpack*

enjoy those deep aesop rock metaphors friend,

>All this goalpost moving
wewus ladius

>but muh shakespeare is better than those pseuds
Missing the point completely my man. Even if I was to concede there is no such thing as good rap, that would be irrelevant because there is such thing as bad poetry.

>I'm going to take the high ground and be condescending toward everything you reply to me from here on
Do you know what "taking the high ground" means

>you think rap is poetry and i think that's silly
you must be at least 18 years old to use this website

*tips bart simpson chain*

enjoy OOGA BOOGA, friend

>hating on gucci

By conventional poetry I mean poetry that is done in a musical form. I'm using that to distinguish between the two, for the arguments sake.

Rap as a form of poetry can allow the same poetic techniques. Perhaps on a cultural basis, the rap that exists now does not paint pictures as good as conventional poetry but it can and when it does it's significantly better due to the rhyming scheme. They can rhyme so much better than conventional poets and it actually makes sense. That is very hard to do and because of this it makes rap superior as a poetic form than conventional poetry.

Rap is known for it's "unique pronounciation". Rap is a predominately an African-American art form which revolves around this feature of the african american vernacular.

It's not rare for a producer to build a beat around a rap. I don't understand why you think this. There are two types of workflows for songwriting and production. A lot of rappers write to a beat but sometimes they build a beat around it. Even if they did write to a beat, it does not diminish the effect because they could write a sad rap to a sad beat..it's really that simple.

Rap is a superior form of poetry because it is oral and musical and because of the rhyming structure is more complex.

Most of the new generation don't enjoy poetry because like I've mentioned it's an antiquated and inferior form of conveying ideas and emotions compared to rap - which is musical and relatively simple in it's delivery unlike conventional poetry which cloaks itself in a word salad that most people don't enjoy decoding. Most teenagers would need hermeneutical help to understand the great poems.

Poetry is not performed as often as rap. I think your whole argument is based on confusion of my language and distinction between conventional poetry and rap.

>rap is superior because it does the same things poetry does but worse
lol this thread is hilarious and there's no way this guy like 19 at the oldest

Rap is superior to conventional poetry because of it's musical/oral nature and advanced rhyming structure. It conveys everything better than poetry. It's just on a cultural level, rap is not better than poetry.

>I'm arguing that rap is a form of poetry which is more advanced than conventional poetry that doesn't have significant usage of multisyllabic rhyming.
define "conventional". there's literally over a millennium of poetry, be a little more specific. beyond that, "multisyllabic rhyming" is pretty arbitrary a factor to deem one thing superior to another. and beyond THAT, poets have been rhyming entire lines for a millenium. This is nothing new.
>Rappers have a larger vocabulary than previous poets and making complex rhyming look easy.
lol is this a joke? this is bait or you've literally never read a poem in your life.

>Not all raps are written with a beat in mind. FYI. Sometimes a producer will create a beat that suits the content and flow of the rap. Rap has a far superior melody and rhythmic because of the fact it is music and poetry isn't.
That's why a capella rap is so popular right? wait.. it's not.

>We live in a different culture. Everything is more simple and the way we talk is vastly different. Poets need to keep up with this.
why?
>Rap has obviously replaced poetry as the medium to communicate the kinds of ideas that poems conveyed for the fact that it is music.
Oh, obviously! You dont give examples, I can easily just assert "no it hasn't and doesn't" and be as right.
>From a phonaesthetic view, rapping sounds better axiomatically because it's music and because you have to manipulate the words in order for the rap to sound good.
You keep saying "it's music". So what? There's poetry accompanied by scores, for example much of Campion's work. Now what? It's "phonaesthetically" pleasing according to 4/4 rhythm. Wow!
>The delivery/flow is contingent on the mood of the rap.
And? The "flow" of a poem is contigent on the mood the poet wants to convey. Have you ever heard of metre? It's not just arbitrary prerequisites a poet sets for himself. Iambs are conversational, trochees can be used for emphasis, there are feet that can emulate the sounds of war and so on. It can be "anything".
Everything else you say are baseless assertions that I shouldn't have to address. Except
>Most poetry was performed.
Wrong. There's centuries worth of poetry written to be read. At least as much as performed poetry.

Basically you're saying "rap is superior because it does things poetry has been doing for decades except (admittedly) worse"

>advanced rhyming structure
More rhymes within a line != advanced rhyming structure

yea and uh graffiti is like better than paintings because it has more advanced gradients and sense of depth and stuff
I thought rap was mediocre because it's mostly about inconsequential music paired with insipid writing