So what did this guy actually get wrong

without reverting to "the USSR killed lots of people"

what did he actually get wrong ?

Other urls found in this thread:

quora.com/Is-China-a-communist-country
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

wrong board, mate

go to Veeky Forums lit

Whats the point ? The massacre and death count left by communists is enough to discard it all together.

>capitalism will fail catastrophically any day now

>the fact that businesses are intended to make a profit means that it is impossible for the well-being of workers to ever improve

>the labor theory of value is valid and useful

>humans naturally practice socialism, and worker-owned businesses will tend to function well

>capitalists will never allow workers to organize, and only violent revolution will result in any reforms whatsoever

>greed is something people learn from being immersed in a capitalist society, as is not naturally a part of human psychology

Same with unchecked capitalism. Just look at the modern result of US imperialism, and our milking of developing countries.

Communism pretty much tries to ignore human nature.
>If we make a good enough society then people won't need to fight for their own well being and will be able to just work for the state as the state provides them their basic needs.

Well, what is good enough? Certainly not any communist state right now.

Capitalism works and nothing can work better than capitalism. All we need is a strong government to regulate corruption by rich people and we will be fine.

As a terrible unrepentant Marxfag, here's where he was wrong.

>Capitalism will die of its internal contradictions "soon" (tm).
It hasn't, actually the protests improved significantly the worker's quality of life and resolved most of the issues Marx pointed out in "Das Kapital".
>Revolution will begin in an advanced, final-phase-of-capitalism society.
It didn't, it began in Tsarist Russia, an almost non-industrial society. Also, Capitalism did reform itself several times after Marx's death - Keysianism and Neoliberalism as prime examples.

Those are the major two problems. As for the rest - materialism, analysis of socio-economic context, etc, even most people say he was on spot.

Was that massacre perpetrated by the ideology itself, or by a twisted version of it ? Communism was designed by Marx & Hegel, but applied by Lenin, Stalin, etc - with their own ideas, whereas Nazism was designed and applied by Hitler.

>Certainly not any communist state right now.
There are no communist states right now.

>Neoliberalism
>reform
Reformed for the worse.

>The communist massacre wasn't actually perpetuated by communists
0/10 why even bother ?

No, it really isn't (ignoring the fact that stalinism =/= communism). Capitalist collapse is inevitable, not now but in the near future. You see it every day, the gap between the working class and the elite growing bigger and bigger. If you think this can go on indefinitely or "regulated", you are being irrational and lying to yourself. You better start praying that we can make non-capitalist economic systems like socialism and communism work because there is no good alternative for the future.

>Oh shit comrades, we forgot about Human nature !

>capitalism will fail catastrophically any day now
There are signs of failures, though. But not as early as Marx said.

>the fact that businesses are intended to make a profit means that it is impossible for the well-being of workers to ever improve
Said well-being was also improved by the will of the workers, by law, or by a precedent. The first days of Capitalism were not too bright for them.

>the labor theory of value is valid and useful
It kinda is. A businessman needs his employees for its profits, as much or maybe even more than they need him. And yet, it's the businessman who is the wealth creator in our society.

>humans naturally practice socialism, and worker-owned businesses will tend to function well
There are examples where it fails, there are examples where it works. As for Human being naturally "good", I agree it's a bit of stretch.

>>capitalists will never allow workers to organize, and only violent revolution will result in any reforms whatsoever
Those rights were allowed after fights, and many companies discourage workers from organising (ex, Walmart)

>>greed is something people learn from being immersed in a capitalist society, as is not naturally a part of human psychology
Again, it's something that's very hard to prove or disprove.

By Communists who heavily modified Marx's theories. And again, systematic killings of Ukrainians via organised famine, generalised repressions, Polish intelligencia massacre, were not in Marx's or even Lenin's book.

No denying that Stalin did a great job at discrediting Capitalism.

Not saying that it was good. Neoliberalism is actually a lot of steps back compared to Keynes.

You should read the Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League
London, March 1850. You don't really know what you're talking about. Sounds like you took a humanities 101 course or two-- maybe you even majored in it-- without ever reading Marx and/or Engels.

"human nature"

nice buzzword mate. you're a fucking idiot.


This board needs more exposure to cultural anthropology. Read an ethnography sometime.

why should I follow the ideas of a Jew who wanted to destroy the glories of Western Civilization?

>i-it wasn't communism guise, it was something else
It was communism and you can't create some superficial bullshit entity so you can blame it all on it.
Communist ideology lead to 80 million people's death. 80 million. You can't slip out of this by some wordplay. So no thanks, we had enough of it.

Alright Marxists......explain to me why every Economist in the country if not the western world Virtually DENIES Marx in any class? why is this?

They are commiting a No True Scotsman fallacy...well in this case No True Communist fallacy?

He thought humans were inherently equal

(we're not)

>communism is the natural state of human affairs, which we will inevitably gravitate to
>every time someone attempts communism it gets corrupted to the point that it's nothing more than an upper middle class person's attempt at tricking the poors into making him dictator

You do realise that those elite banker "Jews" that /pol/ demonises use capitalism to achieve their rank and power, right? You know, actual neoliberals (neoliberalism =/= libruls by the way, I've seen many polacks conflate these terms to my horror) like Trump and Hillary. I'd say Socialism and Communism are more about preserving western civilisation in the long-term than capitalism, you know, preserving values like "liberte, egalite, fraternite", ring a bell? The same values that very rich people think themselves above nowadays? Yeah. You should definitely read more into the history behind these movements than regurgitate things other people told you.

yes, current economic system (fiat money) will collapse.

but why the replacement will be socialism rather than an improved version of the free market?

How do you guarantee state level equality among all the people ? Do you even know who's running shit in the government ? Do you have a plan to prevent every citizen in America from becoming something like a wageslave worker in china who can barely get food to feed his family, while the higher ups are basically living like gods ?

Jews are parasites....I simply refuse to follow their beliefs

Why is it that famines that just happened to occur in a communist state are blamed on communism, yet when economic crisis ruin the livelihood of millions of people and lead many people to death, their deaths or ruined lives aren't blamed on capitalism?

You retards just love to inflate these numbers. I cringe every time some retard says Mao killed 78 million people. I see these large inflated numbers without any evidence behind them everywhere. 100 million natives killed by European colonialism, 100 million Indians killed by Muslims, 78 million Chinese people killed by Mao, etc.

>china
Literally the most barbaric and extreme form of capitalism imaginable. Literally communist only in name.

quora.com/Is-China-a-communist-country

Pretty small and barebones summary (very quick read) of why China is not even close to communist, even by definition, let alone being remotely close to what the Soviet Union was. Lots of things went wrong in China, unfortunately for them.

That's exactly what the elite wants you to do. By embracing capitalism instead of whatever other perceived enemy you have, you are falling right into their trap. Whether those hands are authoritarian "far-right" or globalist capitalist, they both aim to take your freedom away eventually, history is proof. SJWs and degenerate fallacious American feminists are not the only thing there is to being left-wing.

>trying to justify communism and its 80 million massacred death toll

>100 million natives killed by European colonialism
colonialism stopped
>100 million Indians killed by Muslims
We're working on it, feel free to give it a hand
>78 million Chinese people killed by Mao
Rightfully dead and gone

Only more reasons to display why we don't need a genocidal and defeated idea like communism to exist anywhere.

>not following a one idea that actually works like free trade

>communists are actually capitalists guise. they aren't really communists
>cites an online public forum as evidence
Are you fucking retarded ? Is that really how you defend communism and their 80 million deaths ? By semantics and forum posts ?

Rate of profit dosen't appear to be falling, LTV is garbage.

But he was kinda right for the vast majority of Western democracies are socialist. Communism was too far but socialism is indeed the natural evolution of humanity.

China is state-capitalist you fucking tard. One of the most efficient systems of capitalism. Communism doesn't exist in the real world, it's an utopian dreamland. I don't expect brainwashed twats like you to know this, but two of the most important aspects of communism are that a communist society is stateless (meaning no govt) and without money. Something no "communist" country has ever achieved.

In my opinion, state-capitalism is the best way to go for China. China is ONLY rising towards the status of superpower because it refuses to sell it's large companies to foreign investors. Otherwise America would have owned China a long time ago.

>China
>A country full of huge faceless global corporations that exploit their workers
>Communist
The Soviet Union never ran sweatshops baby.

This.

Barely any people in the West know what communism in China is or what the Chinese Communist Party is either. The CCP is literally composed of CEO's and rich men. It's capitalist to the bone. Imagine if the US had a one-party system where all the members are CEO's from Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Walmart, Google, Exxon Mobil, etc. That's what China is.

Please be bait. The link is literally basic babby-tier points that disprove the China communist meme. Not even the most conservative gommie-haters claim China is communist anymore.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China
>Agricultural collectivization was dismantled and farmlands privatized
>privatized
>and is one of the leading examples of state capitalism
>capitalism

Also
>tuition fees everywhere, even for primary education in some poor parts of China
>Clear cut class division between the massive number of billionaires and some of the poorest workers worldwide

Still think it's communist? Get with the times.

Same thing as pic related.

Humans aren't inherently "good at heart" and will work things out.

We're great apes, and will fucking eat your face and kill your offspring if you get in our way.

Capitalism is perfect for us. AIs will likely do better.