How long would it take for dogs to achieve human like intelligence if we selectively bred them for it?

jesus christ...

...

>Another popular idea is that our hardwiring and genetics is not vastly different from other primates like chimps
[citation needed]

>Because macro evolution is an evil satanic lie
Are you saying dogs would still be dogs if they drastically evolved into another, more intelligent species?

This, almost.

Enviroment have greater impact than genes, but genes do have their part also.

Not him but obviously he can't say that because dogs and wolfs have the common ancestor, but still dogs are not wolfes.

He is either trolling or brainwashed.

So if a dog was raised in the same environment as a human, they'd be equally intelligent?

No, obviously I was talking about humans.

But a human raised by dogs would only be as intelligent as the dogs.

>But a human raised by dogs would only be as intelligent as the dogs.
lol nigga you dumb

Have you ever taken a basic biology course? Well I have.

And the human brain is to big when we are born, which means that some things we can only learn when we are under a certain age.

For example if you dont learn how to speak before the age of 5, you will never be able to learn it.

There is actually real life examples where they have found humans being raised in the wild/by wolfs and they can never be a functional normal human being, even though they are all found at a relative young age(10,12 etc).

Learn basic biology before writing.

nigga you dumb

All humans that were supposedly raised by dogs reintegrated into society just fine.

the intelligence level of some people on this tread is very telling

Dont think so. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child#Reality

Also another argument that enviroment have a bigger impact than genes is that adopted children do not behaive like their native parents, rather than their adoptive parents.

Don't get me wrong, genes do have some relevance, but enviroment is the biggest factor. Just compare it with being born in a village where you have to struggle for food everyday or being born in Europe where you can focus all your energy and time on maths/sciences with free access to information.

Nigga adopted children retain the intelligence of their parents intelligence is determined to be 80% heritable.

Either way you can attribute environment to differences in intelligence among humans but the reason gorillas or hamsters or ants aren't as intelligent as humans is very clearly genetic.

>raise dog like a human
>should be as intelligent

>intelligence is determined to be 80% heritable.

Source please, every biology teacher in the world disagrees with you.

>but the reason gorillas or hamsters or ants aren't as intelligent as humans is very clearly genetic

Well, that's because they are an completly fucking differnet animal than us. You cant use that as an argument that intelligence differnece among humans are genetics just because a gorilla is smarter than a hamster, do you even listen to yourself?

You need to read some more biology and especially genetics, do you really think we have evolved superior intellect in the past 1000 years? Of course not, just that small inovations and scientific progress have gradually created a society where we can focus more energy on academia than on hunting for survival.

If I where to magically teleport a new born roman child to our time and raise it here, it would be just as smart as the next kid, but if it where to be born in roman times, it would have been considered less intelligent because the roman had a different enviroment than we have today.

>wolfs
JUST

m.pnas.org/content/111/42/15273.full

You're confusing level of education with intelligence with your Roman child example btw

>You're confusing level of education with intelligence with your Roman child example btw

I guess your right, but I don't see how that isn't relative today with 3rd world countries?

Also, forgive me if I jump to conclusions, I did not read the entire study, but it seems to me that a standardized test at the age of 16 is somewhat a vauge basis to stand on to prove intelligence heritage vs enviroment? Especially since there is no way of messure "intelligence encourage enviroment"?

Not nitpicking, just curious, I would even be glad to be proven wrong, but why would old scientists who later became teachers know so little about genetics?

I have no idea how long it would take. I'm guessing maybe hundreds of years?
If we were to do that. I'd suggest breeding them towards being able to effectively communicate with humans first. So it would be much easier to judge which ones are more intelligent.

>hundreds
Try millions bucko. Think about how long it took us to become as intelligent as we are today.

that's not a fair comparison. there isn't evidence that natural selection is intelligently guided.

>You stop being the kind of animal you were in the past

Fuck off, Carl

Dogs are wolves genetically.

Alright. So if intelligence differences exist only between species and never within a species... How do those differences arise in the first place? The common ancestor between Archinota and Carnivora. At one point, the same species. So how did one group attain a higher intelligence then the other if they were the same at one point?

>Enviroment have greater impact than genes
>Enviroment have

Well yours must have sucked.

In any event, do you have a source for this? Any hard proof that environment has a greater impact on intelligence than genes?

How can you strawman me this hard? If you read my posts, I clearly say that enviroment is the biggest factor, but genes have their role as well.

>How do those differences arise in the first place?

That is a though one, you can flip that coin and ask why differences arise with speed, strength etc.

Of course some people are smarter than other, but intelligence is also a hard thing to define.

For example, are you intelligent for being the best at math or for being the best at surviving, adapting and spreading your genes? In an evolutionary perspective the answear is quite clear.

One thing that can shed light on this topic are twins. I have two childhood friends who are twin brothers, how come they have different abilites and excel in different areas if everything is based on genes?

How come I am smarter than my brother and he is better than me at sports? We have the same genes more or less.

I am not native english speaker so I am sorry for any grammatic and spelling errors.

My source for that statement is my former biology teacher, I have studied Biology 1 and 2 in my native country.

>Any hard proof that environment has a greater impact on intelligence than genes?

That is a tough one since intelligence is not easy to define, and there is no conclusive proof one way or the other due to insufficient research.

But this would be a good read or you: ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence where they clearly state that intelligence is influenced by "both genetic and environmental factors."

I have yet to see a source who dares to claim that genes are alone responsible for intelligence, consider twins and adopted children.

Forgot to write, ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_and_intelligence are also sourced for environment having more or the same influence on intelligence.

>I have yet to see a source who dares to claim that genes are alone responsible for intelligence

because nobody in the world claims that

A lot of people claims that, just in this very thread.

>anyone believing that intelligence comes from their environment
I bet you believe that knowledge is the same as intelligence. And that dogs can simply learn how to be as intelligent as yourself.

>confusing breeding evolution with single generation intelligence increase

Irony.

>thinking that I was talking about a single generation and not an accumulation of knowledge being passed down generations

Irony indeed.

p-p-pol b-btfo

Then where does intelligence differneces come from?

Well It wouldn't be a stretch for a dog to become smarter than a /b/tard for instance.

genetics

Source?

>I am a fish
Good for you, son.

ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_and_intelligence should be good reads for you.

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remove the carriage returns

You dont provide me with a source be showing be how to search for one. I wanted your source on your statement.

Example: I claim that environment have a greater or equal influence on intelligence than genes. I support my claims with sources at the end of my post like this:

ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_and_intelligence

According to these sources you are wrong, do you even have any source for your statement or are you just trolling? Because if you read the thread we have already established that genes are not alone responsible for intelligence.

Nice trips. Nice Wikipedia article(like I'd even consider that as a source.)
>are you just trolling?
I thought the let me google that for you link would have been a dead give away.

Thanks, and if you are so picky about wikipedia(I dont see why) just click their references? And you didn't even comment on my other source, and you fail to provide your own sources.

You are either trolling or ignorant, and I don't know which is worse.

Also I could not find support in those NCBI articles for environment having a greater influence on intelligence than genetics. They were rather inconclusive.
>You are either trolling or ignorant, and I don't know which is worse.
You're not very bright. I'll give you that. bye

Learn to read then.

"Like most aspects of human behavior and cognition, intelligence is a complex trait that is influenced by both genetic and environmental factors."

"These studies suggest that genetic factors underlie about 50 percent of the difference in intelligence among individuals. Other studies have examined variations across the entire genomes of many people (an approach called genome-wide association studies or GWAS) to determine whether any specific areas of the genome are associated with IQ. These studies have not conclusively identified any genes that underlie differences in intelligence."

"Intelligence is also strongly influenced by the environment. Factors related to a child’s home environment and parenting, education and availability of learning resources, and nutrition, among others, all contribute to intelligence."

"For example, if a child’s IQ is similar to that of his or her parents, is that similarity due to genetic factors passed down from parent to child, to shared environmental factors, or (most likely) to a combination of both? It is clear that both environmental and genetic factors play a part in determining intelligence."

It was not even a long article dude.

We would have easier time with crows
They are already smarter than some humans

Of course they'd still be dogs. That's how evolution works. Humans are still considered monkeys scientifically, as are birds considered still dinosaurs.

When will the nurture meme die ?
It's getting ridiculous at this point, what do these people want, every single genes and every single interaction between every single genes completely mapped out ?

Let us start with the eugenics already.
I really don't want to move to China to do it for my kids, can we please stop being ethics-whores and bleeding hearts and think of the future for two seconds ?

... I'm going to have to learn chinese, isn't it.
Fuck.