Why does Veeky Forums hate engineers so much?

Why does Veeky Forums hate engineers so much?
Please give valid reasons.

Other urls found in this thread:

bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/mobile/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htm
bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/mobile/chemical-engineers.htm
bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/mechanical-engineers.htm
esa.org/esablog/research/kill-da-wabbit/
usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/447505800/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Why did you post a picture of a guy servicing a central AC unit with the file name "electrical engineer?"

NaCl. They know they will never have not even a tenth of the money and respect an engineer will get.

Insecurity, engineers actually achieve things

because Veeky Forumsentists are closet homos and are jelly of those who are openly homos

This was the answer I was gonna give.

Engineers get all the boypucci that scientists want for themselves.

its a meme you dip

why is this faggot wearing a hardhat

Because they think that they do (and know) as much math as math majors, and as much physics as physics majors.

Homosexuals are disgustings

Because they possess traits that 99% of sci does not:
motivation
work ethic
intelligence
social skills
ability to do an interview

They actually get shit done. They take an overload of hard classes and complete their degree on time, acquire social skills and employment related to their field while at school, and then they get paid proportionally to their value to society: a lot of money.

Because they use the phrase "its like math,but louder" unironically

Because I had vastly different interests entering college than I did leaving. I went to a school with no engineering program as luck would have it. I have a degree in chemistry and am currently working on my PhD. The skills I've learned are very specialized and still some faggot engineer will make more money than me without having to do a graduate degree. Our scientists are undervalued, academia is more politics than science, and industry is tough to break in to. So yes, I hate you. Not because you are studying something I don't deem "pure", but because I'm jealous you got opportunities I did not. When you come from a poor family, do a BSc, and then realize there was a better major, you don't have the luxury of going back for a couple more years and getting more debt to get an engineering degree in your field. My fate is sealed.

I am most likely going to do well for myself considering my project and future degree, but damn if I wish I wasn't in school for the next 5 years. So yeah, we're salty. Just remember your field is next to get saturated and it's already begun. Enjoy it while you can if you are just graduating. If you are a freshman God help you. Engineering is quickly becoming the new premed.

Engineers are needed all over the world currently. I don't really see a problem with over-saturation. I can always move countries and still get paid a shitton. Also, let me guess, you're 'Murican?

It's the homophobes from /pol/

I feel you pain man, but I don't see engineering getting saturated any time in the next 100 years. You know what happens when there are too many engineers? Too many things get done.

Yes Murican.

ChemE is already headed that way. I don't know about the other professions, but chemEahave been complaining about their jobs disappearing/ a tough market for the past few years. Engineering degrees are popular right now.

>Our scientists are undervalued, academia is more politics than science, and industry is tough to break in to.

Engineer here

I agree

Electrical and chemical engineers need physicists to spoonfeed them QM and to make quantum-corrected models for them but they still think they're better than scientists.

...

Because the prominence of the degree and how easy it is to get a job quickly goes to their head.

Also, they're mostly rich white boys

Because they think plug and chugging some differential equations is "high level math"

>wanting to be sheldon cooper
>not wanting to be howard Wolowitz
>not wanting to be an astronaut
>not wanting to fuck bernadette
>using a meme show as way to belittle engineers

Topkek

I guess I don't know about chemical, but I don't believe there can ever be too many electrical or mechanical engineers.

atleast engineers can feel a sense of achievement rather than worrying about their theoretical ideas being relevant in the future desu desu

because people like to generalize and make themselves seem better off as a way of self-preservation. if Veeky Forums cared about making the world a better place they would note that engineers and scientists need to work together to accomplish anything

Yeah, to be honest I don't know much about those fields. I thought I heard talks of mechE being over run, but idk. I think electrical is sealed up pretty tight due to rigor alone, but BLS claims "0% job growth in the next decade". Idk mang. I know chem and chemE primarily just because that's the world I live in.

On the flip side, ChemIsts and ChemEs seem to get along pretty well together. They're largely dependent on each other and have sorta a similar experience with the job market. Half united by work, half United by feels. ChemEs are cool in my book.

we dont hate them, there just is a better home for these people

>they're mostly rich white boys
Rich white boy engineer here, can confirm.

There's a fuckload of women engineering "groups" and "societies" though. I believe that women have the capability of being just as talented and reputable in STEM, but I cant overlook how many free rides the 3 women in my classes get.

>they're mostly rich white boys
>getting buttblasted over the white man's obvious superiority
Nothing new under the sun

Well I think a physicist will have a lot more respect... but money is all relative.

this

All these retards who get their ideas about scientists/engineers from shitty popsci shows like Star Trek, etc. and they think that rocket scientists are real (they're called engineers). KEK

This thread confirms that 99.9% of Veeky Forums is essentially high-school/undergrad retards who know nothing about any field including their own.

They're fucking dumb loudmouths who constantly shittalk normies for not knowing math but simultaneously refuse to actually learn any real math.

They're like that guy who puts a spoiler and stupid stickers on their car without even doing performing proper maintenance under the hood.

I'm in the same boat as you. While I completely see the value in women engineering groups such as
SWE, (If there were 150 women in my class and only 3 guys, I would have a hard time finding
others to work with too) In practice, I see this being unfairly executed in my school as the advisers
will often unfairly asses them well, or put them into positions they are not always qualified for.

>They're fucking dumb loudmouths who constantly shit talk normies for not knowing math

this is absolutely true, but for the wrong reasons you listed. I love math and have great respect
for those who delve into it more than I do. I shit talk my friends because they are convinced making
a water powered car is a perfectly viable alternative and its just the 'government who doesn't want
you to know man'. I don't think it requires a PHD to tell them they are retarded.

if your specialty is physics, and your friend is trying to tell you the force of gravity
is directly proportional to the amount of felines currently fornicating, your eye would probably twitch a little.

Veeky Forums is for scientists and science. Engineering is categorically not science and engineers are not scientists.

>tfw 26 year old pharmacist
I'm jelly because my engineer friends make more money than me and their time at Uni was chill as fuck while i had to study my ass of. Truly considering going back to uni and getting an Engineering degree desu. That i'm currently more interessed in technology instead of selling drugs is making my career choice even more suffering. Designing and building facilities for mass producing drugs would be cool as hell

Engineers are unequivocally gay /thread

when engineers do science, it isn't published usually, it becomes a trade secret

and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that Claude Shannon wasn't a great scientist

RHODESIA

Who deserves more respect, an architect who designs a building or worker who just lie bricks?

This.

they love cock even though they are males

>Just remember your field is next to get saturated and it's already begun
By comparison, is science considered an over-saturated field?

>studied engineering
>employed as a physicist
ayy lmao

Since when does a scientist tell an engineer to do anything? This metaphor is retarded for so many reasons besides the fact that any construction project involves a civil engineer telling workers where and how to lay the bricks. Odd that he still gets paid more than the architect, isn't it?

I am personally grateful for engineers, but please make sure they aren't anywhere near complex systems.

architects are glorified designers and part time project managers.
engineers actually make sure the building doesn't fall over

You mean like jet turbines?
> physics bitches don't know bout my creep

Engineers can't do shit without charts and tables made by scientists

> generating steam charts
> hard
Good for you m8
If that's why you got into science I wish you luck.
That's far too tedious for me

>I got a shit degree, so I GOT MORE OF A SHIT DEGREE
I literally cannot understand this self-deluding bullshit AT ALL. Worse is when someone "doesn't like" their subject at all.

>bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/mobile/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htm
>jobs: 315,900
>0% growth over 10 years

bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/mobile/chemical-engineers.htm
>jobs: 34,300
>2% growth over 10 years

bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/mechanical-engineers.htm
>jobs: 277,500
>5% growth over 10 years

Even at the present rate it would take MEs nearly 25 years to MATCH the jobs available to EEs, and that's assuming the 0% growth for EE is true, despite internet of shit not even starting. Not even Civil can match EE. I laugh when people say EE is hard too, I know MEs that worked for probably 6 hours every day for weeks straight last semester, while most of the EEs just jerk off. It really pisses me off too, because they'll cheat off each other and nobody cares, or the teachers are trash and, like a class last semester, the cut-off for a D was 30%.

>mostly rich white boys
>half the class is chinks and poo-in-loos
>neither of my parents have a degree
Most kids in uni are rich as fuck to be honest. It gets really tiring how they love travelling, not having kids, and throwing money at stupid shit.

No. I actually mean engineer in the sense of mechanistic sense towards things.
With complex systems I mean stuff such as the economy and other 'organic' systems.

I trust engineers with machines and buildings, but not with social systems, ecosystems and the economy.

And economics is shit precisely because they wanted to be like physics.

>gets engineering degree
>still doesn't have job
feels bad man

Engineering students have that demographic, but actual engineers are mostly rich white guys

>they got rich by being engineers
>chinks and pajeets either go home or get shoved into "sales engineering" positions or something unless they're actually good

>social systems
>economy
I agree, since these rely a lot on >muh feels, so they're difficult to model mathematically

>ecosystems
Won't comment, but don't environmental engineers mess with this? Though they probably do a shitty job of it, given that they're biofags and all

>Won't comment, but don't environmental engineers mess with this? Though they probably do a shitty job of it, given that they're biofags and all
Ecologists do it and there are lot of times when their actions results in unwanted consequences.
Here's one example (I know of more):
esa.org/esablog/research/kill-da-wabbit/

Maybe it is more an objection of big topdown planned policies in favor of small changes that are foreseeable. But I've seen it as a kind of engineering as opposed to tinkering.

>hey, let's fuck up the ecosystem of some island no one gives a shit about and see what happens
Sounds fun af desu

For what's it worth we learned something. But it is kind of silly:
>introduce wabbits
>wabbits make forest growth impossible
>eradicate wabbits
>oops now the forest grows too fast
>try to stop forest from growing

I imagine a lot of policies have similar side-effects but I haven't dug deep into that. They seem good on paper but the outcomes might be different.

t. engineer incognito

you didnt read what I wrote, didn't you?

first of all, a PhD is not a "shit degree". I don't know where you got this meme.

Second, there are subfields within a broader fields like chemistry or biology or physics that do very well. for example, A PhD in biology is fucking garbage unless your project is genetics or protein focused. If you do theory in physics, you probably wont have a fun time finding a job either. I am in a pretty hot field in chemistry right now, hence why I mentioned I will probably do well compared to other people pursuing a chem PhD. also, looks like the chemE jobs are really low like I said.

no one's attacking EE so I don't know what possessed you to start citing BLS and throwing a fit about scientists being useless. We are talking about why there is so much disdain for engineering on the Veeky Forums. I ultimately said its because scientists feel undervalued for their knowledge and its seems like a few people agree.

>I know MEs that worked for probably 6 hours every day for weeks straight last semester, while most of the EEs just jerk off. It really pisses me off too, because they'll cheat off each other and nobody cares, or the teachers are trash and, like a class last semester, the cut-off for a D was 30%.
As a EE, I can fully concur with this assessment.

I've always thought it was easy. Other engineers I know legitimately seem scared to learn the content in my classes. I don't get it.

yes.

A BSc in chemistry is very very difficult to work with. you pretty much only have the opportunity to work as an underpaid lab tech, and from what I hear there is a glass ceiling due either from major lack of experience or lack of advanced degree. So everyone in chemistry started going to do a PhD and suddenly that was oversaturated, particularly in organic which everyone and their brother wants to study. I dont blame them. pharma companies are the biggest employers of chemists and organic theory and practice is pretty fun. What no one talks about is how the massive saturation of organic chemists means big pharma can lay off scientists as often as they want, even if just to prevent from increasing the salary of their scientists every year. The newbies will hungrily lap up those open positions for less pay because getting a job is already hard enough. Rinse and repeat.

Dunno how it is in physics, but I see similar cases with biology. My undergrad school was near a few pharma companies and over my time there I started realizing that a lot of these professors had been laid off from industry and came to work for the uni.

They don't hate engineers. They hate the faggots who go to engineering school just to make money and they have no motives to innovate and create new things. They just want money. Thats why some schools have filter classes for freshmans that get them to quit. Classes like organic chemistry and other of topic but difficult classes are required.

I get the feeling most of Veeky Forums either doesn't agree with OP's opinion, is an undergrad, or is just salty af...

I could go and do telecommunications engineering (3rd year) or switch to mathematics.
The choice is easy. It's maths.
It's far more intellectually stimulating and fun.
But still not having the title and the money an engineer gets is a bummer. For that I am sad. But I can't forsake my love for maths.

A lot of engineers just want to build stupid shit a bit better for some stupid company. Very few actually do change the world. It's all gradual and your personal contribution is working as an enhanced technician. FUCK THAT.

Plus I don't like men (or only pretty girly ones ^^).

Nah, I just hate engineers.

MELANESIA

I don't hate engineers.
I'm just homophobic.

Sorry OP, i tried, i really tried to feel for you. But i simply can't.
Why? let me redpill you a bit.

I dont know how the things go in MUH 'Murica (which we have already understood you're from) but in my country (first world) these field:

ChemE, MaterialsE, Chemistry, Biology

Are overrun. Mostly by women.
Now i'm not stating anything bad about women, just pointing it out. Assume anything you want from it.

Literally every girl i had with me in HS, is studying/going to study one of the fields ive mentioned above. And not in some fancy prestige university with a big name, but mostly community colleges and low-tier uni's.
And the worst part? Most of them think it's "kinda easy, just do study your 3-4 years and get a job".
Sadly, its not far from the truth.
The market is overrun.

And yes, your precioes PHD is respected - but then again, why are you so different and better from the flock?

I'm an electrical engineer; I've never worn a hard hat, nor have I ever performed any maintenance on any kind of hardware. I design electronics. Other people (our techs are two Korean women) build stuff. Sometimes I test stuff, but mostly I just analyze the data that other people collect.

I don't fix broken things. ever.

you knew what you were getting into. why not get an engineering degree if it's so easy to do? pharmacy school isn't a walk in the park, so you're probably smart enough to make it work. check out EE. it's good.

Good point. Engineers are like architects, and the techs and mechanics who build their designs are like brickmasons.

Also, the word you're looking for is "lay." English can be tough, especially for Indians learning it as a second language.

You'll get there eventually Bhupindar.

EE isn't that complicated. Lots of MEs get into either control systems or fluid dynamics. You need a lot of the same math to do good work in either field. Some basic understanding of differential equations and a good grasp of Laplace and Z transforms are all you need to understand. Electric current and hydraulic fluid are generally similar. Fault conditions are different, but splitting branches and dealing with typical loads are mostly what you'll deal with. It's not that bad. You just need to understand the big picture. The day to day is more about interpersonal skills than technical skills.

That's what these wannabe PhD kids don't understand. All the theoretical knowledge in the world doesn't help you get something built. It helps you get something published.

Weird. It's almost like market forces are moving people from chemistry and physics to engineering based on the skills that companies want and need.

I have to admit i just got into pharmacy because i wanted to learn more about chemistry, biology and how substances interact with the human body. Becoming a glorified retailer was never my goal.

>electrical Engineering
I have a huge respect for any kind of Engineering degree and i wouldn't call them easy either. My friends got through their courses with minimal effort and because of that their grades were avarage at best.
Is there any way for synergy between pharmacy and ee? I don't really feel like throwing away my first degree.

I don't hate engineers. They may be icky at times, but they have just as much a right to fall in love and get married as you or I.

I don't see a clear path between the two. If you don't like working as a pharmacist, save up your money for a few years and go back to school. Power systems is a field that lots of old-timers are retiring from, and very few young people are moving into. Grid management (substation design) is pretty boring work but it's good, honest infrastructure development that needs to be done, and it pays fairly well. That's my best advice.

Thanks for the advice user.
However one big plus for pharmacy is that at the moment far more pharmacists are retiring than the universities in my country can spit out because we're required to do tons of analytical chemistry and production in our courses and building more labs for more students is too expenive. And since it's a highly regulated field there's very little danger of getting overrun by pharmacists from other countries to fill the gaps.
I'm currently applying for several jobs in production, quality assurance and analytics at local pharmaceutical companies. If that won't work out i'll get back into Uni.

Im in mech engineering for money, what now pisshead

This is some BS from ages ago and it wasn't true even back then. You won't even get the minimal grade at any reputable university as an engineer if you don't know how to generate the charts required for your field.

At some shitty university it might be acceptable that they only mention how to do it, but that's still not an excuse for you not to learn it when it's the core of your field.

Also charts and shit like that are for guys on the mechanical/civil/etc. side of things. That's not the only existing engineering discipline. With so much misinformation and hole in your knowledge it's not a surprise that you're not on good terms with engineers.
(Don't misunderstand me; most average engineering graduates are shit tier, but so are the physics guys.)

>... while most of the EEs just jerk off. It really pisses me off too, because they'll cheat off each other and nobody cares ...

The only one who can do something about this is you, if you want to learn your field you will learn and you will be good at it, if you're there for the paper then you will get a paper.

This has nothing to do with engineering, lot of other fields do the same, because the truth is most people are there for the paper. Also it seems to be common in university today to pick up an attitude where passing your course is more important than your knowledge. Because muhh I just want to be X and getting my degree means I will be X (which is laughable at best and very saddening considering it has nothing to do with reality).

For the record this applies to physicists as well. Lot of them just practice 5 types of exercises because they know it will be enough to pass the exam and they only vaguely know about each step. Okay they know how to manipulate that matrix, but who the fuck doesn't? So they actually learn very little actual physics.

>the teachers are trash
This is a problem relates to the above problem. At a reputable university at least the end semester exams should be complex and they should make you think and apply your actual knowledge. It *shouldn't* be a collection of exercises you covered during the semester.
Yet as I said before if you want to learn something you open your books and start learning. Those books are recommended/required by your course anyway because they want to you teach yourself.

im an EE and nobody i know that is an engineer thinks this

we know we abuse math concepts to make it easier for real world application.

I'm I forgot to add. I read more of the thread and I agree with the assessment that undervaluing someones knowledge is bad. I also dislike (most of the time) who are just in it for the money because they have no creativity and their knowledge is usually severely lacking so you can't even have a good discussion with them.

However I think a lot of people on this board also thinks that engineers can't do physics meanwhile physicists can do everything, because muh physics.

In reality your average physics guy can't do engineering and your average engineer can't do physics, especially if we talk about babby tier bsc.

However if we talk about guys with some talents than it doesn't really matter. Most of those guys can do what they need to/ what they want to do. For example my electronics lecturer is a physicist he switched from the physics department to the engineering department to do research here. His research partner in the USA (in Texas somewhere?) is an EE who is currently Professor of Physics at his uni. No one cares irl what your degree is because if you want to achieve something you will need lot more than the knowledge gained by completing one degree.


Most of these haters on Veeky Forums are a bit above average nerds who think that muhh physics is some untouchable thing because Star trek told them so. Then comes the real surprise. Meanwhile real physicists know what they're doing and they don't give a shit about something like this.

I propose that we simply ignore BS like this. After all a (wo)man should be judged by his/her merits/knowledge/abilities/ethics alone and not by what degree he or she holds.

>Also it seems to be common in university today to pick up an attitude where passing your course is more important than your knowledge. Because muhh I just want to be X and getting my degree means I will be X (which is laughable at best and very saddening considering it has nothing to do with reality


I had a class where the teacher was pissed at the school so we were hs last semester. He told us everyone will get an A if we show that we were learning and putting in the effort. A C for if you felt you weren learnng , and an F for putting in zero effort.

I learned a lot with no pressure

Yes. That's a lot better attitude.

>I learned a lot with no pressure
Exactly. Most people can learn a lot more if given a proper environment and that's way better then just getting a paper. Those who want/can learn in their free time all by themselves without any external motivation will do (very talented, otherwise motivated people, etc.).
Your professor made sure that the rest are learning too, instead of just passing the course.

>In reality your average physics guy can't do engineering and your average engineer can't do physics, especially if we talk about babby tier bsc.
I disagree honestly, physics people can pick up engineering pretty easily whereas the other way around isn't true. There will be a learning curve obviously, but a whole lot shorter

>mfw i dont tell people that I use google more on the job than i did during school as an EE in the power industry

Mechanical engineering major here, I'm just hoping Pajeet doesn't take all the jobs. At least I didn't go computer science (I suspect EE is also DESIGNATED, but I'm not sure).

Engineering is a science. Engineers don't use math, they use calculators. Thus Engineers have nothing at all to do with Veeky Forums - Science & Math

It's just a meme. Normies become engineers, Veeky Forumsentists become, you know, scientists, like physicists or mathematicians.

Actually, that's exactly it. Engineers are normies.
GET OFF MY BOARD YOU FUCKING NORMIES

>diy
>do it (as in, men) yourself

Why not an chem E job with a chemistry degree, is it really hard to get engineering jobs w/o engineering degrees? I got a Engineering job with a physics degree. I just graduated too, when I was searching for jobs, govt engineer positions will take anyone with a hard science degree. I'm sure you can branch from there

example
usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/447505800/

Also the navy will take physics majors to become nuclear engineers.

>Engineering is a science.

Im glad we can agree

I would prove that we aren't faggots if I could do proofs.
>Chemical Engineer here.

>Successful completion of a curriculum leading to a bachelor's degree in engineering technology or in an appropriate professional field, e.g., physics, chemistry, architecture, computer science, mathematics, hydrology, or geology, may be accepted in lieu of a degree in engineering, provided the applicant has had at least 1 year of professional engineering experience acquired under professional engineering supervision and guidance. Ordinarily there should be either an established plan of intensive training to develop professional engineering competence, or several years of prior professional engineering-type experience, e.g., in interdisciplinary positions.

In other words, they'll almost certainly hire someone with an engineering degree

What job did you maange to get?

I'm sure with a nice cover letter they will consider chem majors as well. Also for those still in school, consider taking a few beginner engineering classes( I know the person I quoted earlier didn't have any, but most colleges do and allow people outside engineering to take them)

I got a job as a laser engineer, but they were looking for physics majors to begin with, so it maybe doesn't count. But I will definitely be using it as a launchpad to other engineering positions.

Pure science majors got to work a little hard but don't lose hope

I have to agree with the spoon feeding of QM. As an EE major, I was throughly disappointed when our QM lecturer said, "Okay, so we're going to skip all of this interesting stuff. Just accept this formula." The only difficult part of our watered-down QM course was memorizing pages of formulae because we couldn't handle the derivations.