Is math invented or discovered?

I guess math itself would be the same, but not the way we express and comunicate it.

math is just another language to explain phenomenon.

there are no discoveries, only revelations!

discovered. most of the time it's brought up on sci, a majority of users get it wrong, settling on invention. This is a basic misunderstanding of the various things that are actuallly going on when people do math, nd can be cleared up with a little clear thought.

>implying natural arithmetic isn't discovered and the rest isn't purely constructed

The rules are invented but the consequences of those rules are discovered

this, but also

this.

our intuitions on which math is based are the reflections of our neural architecture.
weve evolved to navigate three-dimensional space and human social structures.
math is an abstract manifestation of those insticts.
pretty much rationalism (ontology not withstanding) was right on the money.

Doesn't matter. Now go down the continent, fuck some hookers, learn to man up a bit and then get your life straightened up. That's what I should have done years ago instead of becoming apathetic and giving up on things.

definitions are invented
theorems are discovered

saying math is discovered because it's "already there" is like saying cars or the internet were discovered because "the concept is already there"

>math invented or discovered?
yes

It's invented in order to formally describe reality, but its descriptions thereof are discovered.

Math has nothing to do with reality

You're obviously claiming math is invented by humans. Humans are part of reality. Therefore math is part of reality, and humans are only discovering what another species before us could have "invented". Unless you're claiming math transcends reality which also means it's discovered.

This. There's not such a thing like 'invent'. Things are discovered. The design of a car, the characters of a novel or anything else. Those things are discovered.

Imho math is discovered. I don't know why you said I was obviously claiming the other

>Invention vs Discovery
Fucking pleb.

the system is invented. the implications of the system are discovered.

How do you discover something that has nothing to do with reality? You're either claiming it's invented or claiming Toynbee to look "past" reality to find it, which is no different from dualism. Either you're being irrational or unscientific, and on this board that's unacceptable.

Tell us what brand of math describes reality.

Physic :^)

Basically the same as

Discovered. Irrelevant details of implemetation are invented, but the thing itself is obviously independent of man.

which are both completely arbitrary so surely we couldnt have invented anything that had to do with math but perhaps havent discovered anything about it either, it merely exists regardless of the universe.

Discovered.

Math does not exist. The notation and language we use to describe relationships between quantities are invented. Those relationships exist, but "math" in any traditional sense is something that does not exist, being described by constructed symbols in order to solve problems derived from real-world relationships.

Let's think of what an invention is by an example: the invention of a car, which could be done in infinite ways and creates a physical and specific object, sets the beginning of car engineering which contains all specific models. The invention requires the previous discovery of all physical principles involved, and the actual physical construction/manufacture and testing of what is being invented. Let's think of a discovery: the pattern recognition of something that always existed, something that is not necessarily specific, and could be named anything since the discovery is made by a human. Now, do you think math is the notation or the meaning behind the notation, if you had to choose between both to define the word math? Imagine two civilizations having 2 completely different notations about the same part of math, for example, euclidian geometry. They effectively have the same mathematics, right? It doesn't matter the arbitrary notation behind it, we would have to acknowledge it.

Therefore math, logic, is simply Discovered.

Discovered. We just gave names to quantities, qualities and operations which existed before they had the names and symbols they have today. The study of these quantities and qualities and how they react in operations is what we have named Mathematics. If someone creates a new theorem, they only discovered the facts about a particular reaction of quantities and qualities in specific operations. However it really depends on if you mean "maths" the subject(invented) or the phenomena of "maths" itself(discovered). Fuck, you just know it's a god tier subject if it goes this deep.