Is time travel compatible with determinism?

Is time travel compatible with determinism?

time travelling is a sci-fi concept and determinism is a philosophical concept

tell me why you posted this on Veeky Forums

Yes.

Time travel is just changing your location in an infinite multiverse of every possible scenario.

Does there exist a scenario where humanity mastered the universe just from Earth alone and are just chilling for an eternity?

Infinite scenarios match that description.

>time travel
we don't discuss autism here

wtf

why is that board so spooky??

I guess what you really meant to ask is:
"Can you send information/matter backwards in time and still preserve the apperant causality of the universe"

I'm not really sure, but my guess would be NO.

Here is my reasoning:
If Einstein was right and the theory of general relativity holds true for our universe, then you simply can't go backwards in time.
But let's say that Einstein is right and you still somehow manage to send something back in time, then you would have broken some fundamental physical laws, which we regard as true.

Imagine sitting in a room and then that object form the future pops in front of you.
1. The conservation of energy had been violated.
2. The conservation of momentum, had been violated.
3. Causality has been violated.

Imagine you have thrown a paper ball towards the bin in your room.
The object from the future appears after you've already thrown the paper ball, between the bin and the paper ball.
Then the ball won't end up in a bin.
Even though you were carefully observing everything and have calculated the trajectory of the paper ball.

Or let's go a bit further, let's say you send a bomb back in time.
Now the bomb materializes in your room and explodes (you are not in the room).
The blast would give everything in your room some moment of inertia.
When you enter your room, you'll see a mess that happened for no apperant reason at all.

It's like locking a gun in a safe and then later oppening it to see that the gun has vanished.
Maybe the gun traveled to another time.
Or even weirder, you open the safe to find a gun and a cake.

Then you'd start to wander what good are safes in such a universe...
Or you could reason a bit further and say "What's the point in studying physics, when things seem to happen for no (yet apperant) reason?".


But on the other hand the Quantum Eraser experiment, seems to show us that an entangled particle's position really does depend on events which happen in the future.

So I don't really know.

Determinism is unverifiable even if you have time travel. The only way to verify it is if you had the source code to the universe.

Even then. What predetermined its 'source code'?

what predetermined your belief that there is an actual source code to the universe which is predetermined?

Yes. It is actually one of the only ways for it to not hurt causallity

...

I came here to say: but I was too late.

I don't have a belief that there is a source code, or that everything is ultimately predetermined. I was only entertaining a metaphor to illustrate that determinism has its limits.

of course it does, who said it doesn't?

I felt parts of my brain dying.

The person I initially replied to said:

>The only way to verify it is if you had the source code to the universe.

Yes, just accelerate and move really fast in relation to the place where you want to travel forward in time.
You can travel an arbitrary amount of time into the future and you're only limited by the available energy.

And determinism is the belief that the space-time multiverse is fixed.
So no determinism is not compatible with time trvael.

wtf i hate determinism now

If you are determined to travel through time, it is

That is not determinism, determinism just means causality as in cause and effect, If time was fixed nothing we know about the universe would be possible because all known laws are precipitated on the passage of time and if time didn't dilate and expand, we wouldn't have relativity.

Wrong. That's not how any of this works.

That is partially how infinity works.

If there is an infinite multiverse of every possible scenario and you can travel between them then I should be running into universe travelers all the time
nonsensical

why in the fuck did people in 1912 think it was perfectly acceptable to go hiking in a suit and a hat?

You must be in one of the infinite scenarios where you have little outside contact with other beings, you could probably verify that theory by looking around and seeing if you were on a world surrounded by countless billions of other worlds, none of which you could communicate with.

Think of it this way, if you were to have the number .999..., you could look all you want in the infinite set to find as many 9s as you needed, but you will never find a 1.

Sure, maybe it would be like skipping forward or going backwards to the different parts of a video.

He said every possible scenario.

No I'm sorry that doesn't work. There should still be an infinity of universes wanting to interact with mine.

You aren't that interesting due to you low contact, they have infinite infinitely more intriguing people to meet.

Fine, then take pi, you have infinite numbers, but the first number is still always a 3 and there are still clear boundaries and patterns to be found within.

Stop. He said every possible scenario, not just an infinity of scenario.

Yes and you never contacting anyone from other universes is an inevitable possibility among infinite possibilities.

It's not, since there should be universes that want to come in mine.
That's called a logical contradiction, my lad.

Most of those universes are so infinitely different that they would not even be compatible with you and there are infinite alternate versions of you that have been to other universes, but since the multiverse is infinite, you just happened to be in one of the scenarios with no outside contact, for now.

>Most of those universes are so infinitely different that they would not even be compatible with you
Doesn't matter, an infinity still are.
>you just happened to be in one of the scenarios with no outside contact
Can't happen. An infinity would have made contact with mine before now.

Yep you're right I'm an intertemporal traveler here and we all exist we just don't tell anyone because if we do time distorts and they're forced to believe it's bullshit by some outside force nobody yet understands.

This explains how time travel in Dragon Ball Z works, at least.

Think of Hotel infinity, you could just stay in your room with a Do Not Disturb sign up, so even though there are infinite other guests and infinite housekeepers in Hotel Infinity, you will never encounter them because you are locked in your own room doing your own thing.

>Doesn't matter, an infinity still are.
Again there are still infinite numbers in pi, but still only one is on the left side of the decimal.

Hotel Infinity rules didn't specify that an infinite number of fuckers would try to enter my room.

And again, he didn't just say an infinity, he said every possible one.
Shit premise, absurd conclusions.

>Hotel Infinity rules didn't specify that an infinite number of fuckers would try to enter my room.
Yes it is implied by the rules of a hotel, there are infinite guests and the halls are similar and confusing, people are bound to try get numbers backwards when blocked in infinite, that is why you need a do not disturb sign and maybe get to know the manager find the algorithms for VIP rooms and find a number on quite mostly empty hall.

>And again, he didn't just say an infinity, he said every possible one.
Yes and among those infinite possibilities are infinite undisturbed locations, what is your point?

>Yes and among those infinite possibilities are infinite undisturbed locations
This is logically contradictory since any of those "undisturbed location" would have an infinite amount of candidate trying to interact with them.
Is this your first proof ad absurdum or something?

Each candidate can only be at on place at one time, though, where as empty space can be everywhere else all the time, so the infinity of undisturbed locations will always be larger than the infinity of candidates, just like there are infinite combinations of numbers, but each location will have its own value and no even with an infinite series of ones and nines, a nine will never be a one even though there are an infinity of each.

>Each candidate can only be at on place at one time
what? each universe has a pretty high amount of candidates to universe traveling

>even with an infinite series of ones and nines
again, and again, and again, the proposition wasn't "an infinite amount of 1s and 9s" but "an infinite amount of every possible digit"
get royally fucked

Where are you getting that, the amount of empty space to living organism is still pretty high in this universe, what makes you think that doesn't general trend doesn't just scale up to infinity?

I tried to explain with pi, but that was to dense for you to understand, so I tried to simplify it with only two infinities (to show how they can both be infinite, but non-interfering) and I still don't really understand your criticism of the pi metaphor since pi have every number and every possible combination of every number, but there is still only a lone 3 to the left of the decimal place and there are still isolated instances of the number 23 everywhere.

>and there are still isolated instances of the number 23 everywhere.
so?

>but there is still only a lone 3 to the left of the decimal place
so? Is your assertion that only our universe is travel-capable?

Man you're really shit at this.
I keep telling you your assertions lead you to A && not-A and you keep telling me "BUT A THO"

>the amount of empty space to living organism is still pretty high in this universe
how is that relevant?
>what makes you think that doesn't general trend doesn't just scale up to infinity?
infinity of what? Holy shit this is getting worse post by post

So isolated patterns exist even though the general trend of pi an infinite infinity of numbers, also you will find infinite sets of 000.

No, my assertion is the same from the beginning that even though something is part of an infinite set of infinities, it can have qualities that are unique and isolated.

You just keep telling me that you don't understand the nature of infinity.

You implied that just because something is vast and possibly infinite that it has to be everywhere at all times which is wrong.

>infinity of what?
everything, infinite space, infinite worlds, infinite life,etc just in the same general ratio as our solar system.

>flying was sci fi 150 years ago

>But on the other hand the Quantum Eraser experiment, seems to show us that an entangled particle's position really does depend on events which happen in the future.

what if the future is predetermined though?

>implying time travellers want to go to this shithole