Why

>You're immediately dismissing opinions because you think they're "acidheads".
No, I'm dismissing your argument because it has no factual basis. Learn how to read.

>All of these users report the same theme, you will find hundreds more like these.
OH MY GOD, THE SAME HALLUCINOGEN CREATES SIMILAR HALLUCINATIONS. FUCK OFF ALREADY.

>You will find this compound illegal in any country you enter.
So what? Just admit you don't know what you're talking about and made up that "it's the most illegal drug in the world".

>I'm calling you ignorant in the sense that you do not know what this molecule is and why it does what it does.
So you are "ignorant" too. What is the point? At least I'm not actively spreading lies about DMT like you, asshat.

>You are collecting this within the whole bag of "drugs" and probably even associating it with incredible destructive drugs.
What a load of bullshit. Stop putting words in my mouth and learn how to read.

So what, the molecule of DMT contains information? It forces some people to have a set experience in terms of a timeline and this is just normal?

Trust me, I get your point, but you have to question why that even is the case.

You are getting way too defensive about this when you don't know much about it. I'm saying that it's incredibly interesting in what it does to a person and that the fact we have been using this for thousand of years is also interesting.

Also, no. It's illegal everywhere, why can't you understand that? Some things are only illegal in certain countries but this is illegal EVERYWHERE. Wanna just read that again instead of saying the same shit over and over?

Illegal in amsterdam?

Illegal.

>So what, the molecule of DMT contains information? It forces some people to have a set experience in terms of a timeline and this is just normal?
You're dense.

>I'm saying that it's incredibly interesting in what it does to a person and that the fact we have been using this for thousand of years is also interesting.
Why is it interesting?

>Also, no. It's illegal everywhere, why can't you understand that? Some things are only illegal in certain countries but this is illegal EVERYWHERE. Wanna just read that again instead of saying the same shit over and over?
Many drugs are illegal everywhere, like meth.

You're calling me dense because you couldn't answer a very, -very-, question? A question that literally hinges your understanding on this topic.

It's interesting because no other substance does what this does. Cultures for thousands of years have been using this in the form of ayahuasca, there are many links within the bible also. "The flower of life" has also been identified to contain large quantities of DMT. People have always been using this to better their lives or learn how to overcome something in life. Regardless, it does help people.

>comparing DMT to meth
Can we just set aside our emotions here and have a decent debate?

Why don't you find DMT interesting, user?

simple question*

>You're calling me dense because you couldn't answer a very, -very-, question? A question that literally hinges your understanding on this topic.
Which question? The first is too stupid to even bother replying to and the second has already been addressed. You are asking about something you made up, not that actually exists.

>there are many links within the bible also.
False.

>"The flower of life" has also been identified to contain large quantities of DMT.
Nonsense.

>Regardless, it does help people.
I bet you believe in healing crystals as well.

You're saying things are false an nonsense and refusing to answer simple things.

I know I'm not "right", but I find enjoyment questioning things. I'm sorry that you're blind in one eye.

>You're saying things are false an nonsense and refusing to answer simple things.
Because they are false and nonsense. And I don't see the point in answering inane questions besides pointing out how they are inane. Anyway, this is going nowhere. Remember, you claimed to be a rational, objective person. So don't complain when others hold you to that.

P-P-P-Paging Joe Rogan!
The most illegal drugs in the world are heroin and cocaine. Maybe meth, in some places, for reasons that are self-explanatory.

>entities, breakthrough, self-dribbling basketballs, etc
Many of these effects (sigma-1 receptor agonism) are appreciable with DXM/dextromethorphan too, but nobody thinks cough syrup opens the gateway to a machine-elf spirit world, do they?

>DMT is also produced within the pineal gland, a gland that a lot of products like soda, water and foods directly calcify.
You still haven't cited your source for this claim.
The pineal is a glorified light-sensor, it still has rod/cone structures and works in conjunction with the central chiasmatic nucleus to produce melatonin and coordinate sleep-wake cycles. Even if it did "calcify", that would probably relate to the natural development of mineral "brain sand" with age and not some kind of globalist fluoridation plot to make us malleable debt-slaves.
Why is it common across species? Because these species descend from an ancestor to whom light-dark sensation and circadian waking cycles were beneficial. See attached.

Indoleamines and sigma psychoactives are interesting for sure, and I do think they're worthy of investigation. However, if you want to put /psy/ into Veeky Forums you'll have to use evidence and facts, not hearsay and wild speculation. If you want to learn more about these compounds, explore 5HT affinity and higher processes like dreaming and memory consolidation, not the metaphysical.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11962759
vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/otherendo/pineal.html
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1693265/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9690142

I have no evidence as it relies on those who describe their experience.

People who take certain drugs will always be in the same state, but not a single person would report that they were placed somewhere entirely different, that it sat them in a new reality and they believed it.

I'm more curious in why we have been using this for so long and the connection in reports.

I falsely said information regarding the pineal gland and the production of DMT within this gland. This is merely a rumor I took to heart because it pieced well.

Regardless, the strangeness of this molecule is something we should be able to answer, not shrouded in legal complications.

What would happen if you gave a prosopagnosic a heroic dose of DMT?

Psychedelic drug binges have turned me into one of the most enlightened people on the planet

Only one way to find out.

>take DMT
>its a fun experience

>can never tell anyone because they always start spewing shit like OP "bruh did u see the machine elves, the other dimension is REAL they're REAL ALIENS" "bruh the pineal gland science science ENLIGHTENMENT"
>or they call me a junkie

fuck you OP
you're just as bad as prohibitionists
spreading misinformation

Did you read the thread at all? We've been through this.

Psychedelic threads pop up on Veeky Forums fairly often, yet there's no talk of the manifoldy stuff?
Please try and describe those sweet brain geometries in terms of mathematics. Of course there's no rigour applicable here but that's not an issue, just speak some math for the fun of it.

>C12H16H2

I didn't even bother reading this shit post after seeing you used a shitty pic.

>chemical formula matters

Fuck off to /x/

yeah I know

I just thought maybe another person telling him to shut the fuck up would increase the chance that he actually shuts the fuck up

rude

Don't mind the uppity freshman, OP. They don't make for good conversation.

It is intriguing that that DMT trips feel real and are clear coherent experiences involving specific entities that each exhibit their own unique behaviour. Potent psychedelic experience are usually just a moment in which you flirt with psychosis or experience oceanic boundlessness. You don't have entities throwing cigs out of your mouth in an attempt to communicate to you to stop smoking or strange geometric creature using pictorial language or telepathy. Strong visual and cognitive distortions caused by drug or mental illness usually involve something along the lines of an evil shadow with tourette syndrome hurling word salad at you one moment and then one random experience after another. Trying to bring back answer about the after life give people the sort of answers that can be found in Tibetan Buddhism and an existence that can described as something much more similar to a video game than simulation where consciousness returns to a cosmic cloud computing network after death.

This all leave me very curious why the trip are so reproducible in different people. You can go into your DMT trips intending to find the being know as "mother ayahuasca" and you will find her eventually. A double-blind randomized prospective study using the model where anesthetic techniques extend the DMT trip would be useful in testing the repeatibility of answers to certain question that are asked of the same entity. Dismissing it all as just hallucinations is a common snobbish attempt at sweeping questions under the rug. Ultimately the problem lies in there being only one notable study on humans approved in the 90s under the eye of the DEA and ethics committees. The moratorium on psychedelic research for decades, due to hysteria, Is only recently starting to be reconsidered.

It's worth discovering what the biological significance is of this endogenously produced drug.

>spreading misinformation

This misinformation thrives like a weed only because of neglect resulting from the knee-jerk reaction to psychedelic research taking root during the Nixon years and scholarly attitude toward anything with spiritual baggage.

Are you Mr. Hancock?

Exactly. Regardless if you believe there is some truth behind this oddity, there is obviously something odd going on and we don't yet fully understand what it is. Before we even get the chance to look into it properly, it's incredibly illegal.

I do wish to have this experience for myself, I don't like to see this and not fully understand the "impossibles" that occur. Considering humans have been taking in this substance for tens of thousands of years, something which has been shown to have many benefits and little to no evidence of any disadvantages. Does the immediate illegality of this not make it seem too obvious that there's something dodgy going on here? When you also consider the experiences people have...

This faggot ass shit belongs in /x/

Your post belongs on /b/

This post belongs in Veeky Forums

Your mouth belongs on my DICK

That made me think.

This didn't.

Faggot

You already know that you're going to get garbage responses. (eg the first post) Why bother to post here at all?

Regardless, concisely I'd say DMT just alters the brain's machinery such signals are processed and routed differently. The common and shared features might have to do with that the brain is composed of a number of very simple, hierarchical, fixed function filtering stages. Especially to do with sensory mixing and visual processing.

Take my Alice and Wonderland Syndrome stuff I frequently had as a child, and my visual snow. A lot of the trippy LSD or DMT-like effects I've experienced very mild versions of while otherwise sober. Migraines and sleep deprivation will also trigger similar things.

Nonetheless it's interesting, and I don't know. I'm apt to take a strictly reductionist, local, and mechanical approach to describing it, but there might well be something grander involved. Don't know.

Drugs have influenced human culture, philosophy, and religion since our earlier days.

I knew it wouldn't go well but it's still worth posting.

The things is with trying to say it's just altering the brains machinery is, is that when we experience anything, new neural pathways are being made, we create new paths as we gather new understandings. When there are large quantities of DMT present in the body, it forces you into an experience, into a place where you are free to explore and interact with.

By arguing that it's just altering the brain, is also arguing that this molecule has an instruction guide of which reality a person will receive.

Another argument people like to make is that people will copy other peoples experiences, however when you watch individual reports of random people, they all go through the same steps and you can some daunting correlation there.

It's worth investigation at the least.

I have got some pretty sweet fractal visuals from acid, 2D and 3D.
I have only taken DMT once and it is a very singular experience, you feel like you are very much cut off from the rest of the world. Personally I only saw kaleidoscope patterns though.
It did not give me any understanding of 4D surfaces or hyperbolic geometry as my Geometry Lecturer implied it did for him. Overall a 7/10 experience because it doesn't last and it smells like shit.

>is that when we experience anything, new neural pathways are being made
Not necessarily. A lot of the brain might well have a very small spectrum of rewiring it'll undergo according to its inputs, or damage.

This generally puts me into an old mindset I tend to use to write stories. Notions of being engineered by another species that came before us, or having hardwired limiters that are occasionally loosened. Perhaps embedded knowledge. I've often felt that there's something else just beyond the peripheries of your awareness, and at most you may only barely run the fingertips of your mind along its surface, but can't ever grasp it. Then it slips away.

It also reminds me of a story about a drug cocktail someone who lived through the 70's happened across once. They suspected one of its constituent parts was PCP, but weren't entirely certain. They were then awake for 3 days, capable of rapid learning and near instantaneous transcription of information and complete recall. Could pick up an instrument, and almost immediately know how to play it. Thought very quickly and clearly, superhuman strength, greatly improved visuospatial processing acuity. Then it wore off and they slept for 24 hours and felt near braindead for arounda week and a half. This is consistent with the formation of olney's lesions.

Lot to be said. Like I said, I don't know. Lot of possibilities.

What was your dosage? I've heard this can be pretty important.

I mean, there are natural compounds that humans have been using for years and then there's shit that rots your brain and gets you addicted to dying.

This is natural and alters your reality to a point where you acknowledge that, that is reality.

It's sad to see people just brush this off into the collection of man-made shit that has ruined the label. Maybe that was done on purpose.

jesus this poster couldn't be any more condescending. absolutely disgusting trait that you were unfortunately born with. Honestly feel sorry for you.

Not sure actually, I just took the biggest draw on the cracky I could.

The primary issue with psychedelics both is, and isn't, the psychedelic nature of the drugs. That is to say, the issue isn't that the drug "allows the user to explore the spirit realm", it's that the drug debilitates the person.

You can't work on a construction site on ketamine. You can't teach a class of children on psilocybin. You can't organise health insurance for a customer on salvinorin A.

Psychedelics have no practical use. Any supposed practical use of the drugs is actually an off target effect, and may be superseded by another drug with more direct effects.

Because its entirely frivolous, there is no demand for psychedelic research and consequently, no funding for it.

If you want to get involved in it, no one is stopping you, but you will have to bankroll it yourself.

Why would you ever do this while trying to do a job? Taking DMT is nothing more than a meditation session almost.

People who have ayahuasca sessions - ingest DMT orally through an ancient brew of plants - take a few hours out of their day to really see themselves and really self-reflect, thus in most cases, making them a better person.

These experiences that people have often seem to be only necessary once. The teaching it can provide seems incredible and enough for a life-long, happy understanding of life.

I don't want you to drop everything and take this on, but at least explore the fascination within this molecule. Properly hear what experts have to say.

It seems that you either dabble in some whatthefuckshitfuckmeupfam hallucinations or you get propelled into another place. It always seems either 1 of the 2. Wouldn't be surprised if dosage was the reason for that.

Way to feed into OP's delusions. "You mean that drug research doesn't focus on drugs that could let us reach the spirit world because they'll stop us working as wage slaves? I knew there was a capitalist conspiracy against the machine elves!!!"

It wasn't a very rigorous trial given it happened in the middle of a music festival while I was already cooked, next time I'll do better senpai.

Sure, that's also a thing... I'm saying there's something odd about this molecule and the reports of experiences users come back with.

I don't care for breaking some sort of reality shade and charging with a revolution, you're making that up to make this seem idiotic when in reality, this shit is real and no one has answers for it.

Is it so wrong to be curious and question what we don't know?

Youre a moron. Why and how would water, soda, and other foods calcify the gayass gland? Please post studies, proof, and proposed mechanism for this because it is just a bunch of stupidity.

Why do morons think soda is bad? Its literally water, sugar, flavoring, and CO2. You can consume these daily from an endless amount of foods - and dont even begin to toss some "but processed food" bullshit. Complete idiot.

Sodium fluoride is attracted to this gland like a magnet. This has been shown to calcify the gland.

You'll find sodium fluoride in sodas, tap water in some countries, toothpaste, foods. Maybe I should have left this part out. It sounds kinda nutty, but feel free to look it up.

Someone's never looked at the ingredient list of any of the major sodas.

>Pineal calcification
The pineal gland is directly exposed to blood and its environment isn't maintained by glia (ie, shielded by the BBB). It has a crystalline structure internally, and a number of compounds can swap places with eg carbonate, and thus become a binding site for calcium. Fluoride compounds are the most well known of which.

>inb4 "but fluoride occurs in groundwater naturally!"
Natural =/= good. You'll find arsenic, cadmium, and uranium in water naturally, along with bacteria that'll kill ya real good. But it's natural amiright?

>Everything alive actually contains the necessary ingredients to synthesize this molecule.

stop trying to pull people into your land of makebelieve
what you just said adds literally nothing to the argument except for empty charlatanry

every living organism contains the necessary ingredients to synthesize every single organic molecule in existence
faggot

I wrote this in a pretty ambiguous way, my bad.

Everything alive contains the very specific ingredients for DMT. Chemical structures of things with life are closely related to DMT. It's another point among many that make this molecule interesting.

>Everything alive contains the very specific ingredients for DMT.
Wrong. DMT is synthesised from tryptophan, an essential amino acid found in food and not produced in the human body.

>Chemical structures of things with life are closely related to DMT.
I think you mean DMT is chemically related to seratonin and melatonin. Both are true, both are synthesised from tryptophan and both are neurotransmitters. So what? Using a material in different ways isn't unique by any stretch of imagination.

>It's another point among many that make this molecule interesting.
It isn't unique and it isn't all that interesting. What other points do you have?

Can someone write a tl;dr of this thread?

Feel free to read the rest of the thread buddy.

I've been following it for a while and most of the points you've raised seem to be debunked. The only solid point I can see is: People should be free to try it for themselves and see if they like it.

>debunked
Casual onlooker here. Remove this word from your vocabulary if you want to be taken seriously by anyone with half a brain.

Thanks in advance, you're contributing to making the world a better place.

niggers and jews

bad news

Eh, as far as you could go about forming a conclusion about what people report, that really just opens up more questions.

This whole topic hasn't been fully answered for and I am bringing it up. People have argued against me but no one has really "debunked" anything.

>debunked
How about contested? That better?

"Doubt has been cast" is the point I was intending to make.

But user! DMT is, like, some sort of magic molecule that is super illegal everywhere. Open your eyes sheeple, its a gateway to the 4th dimension, where we're talking with the spirits

That sounds fine.
I'm not trying to do some kind of arbitrary "new speak" language policing, if anything it's the opposite and there are hard reasons I'm highlighting it beyond personal distaste.

Pay close attention to the way most people use the word, and their overall mental dispositions. You'll understand.

Well you claimed that "everything alive contains the very specific ingredients for DMT" and I countered by demonstrating that humans don't, in fact, contain the ingredients for DMT and further that the ingredients aren't "very specific" as they also form other neurotransmitters.

>and I countered by demonstrating that humans don't, in fact, contain the ingredients for DMT

Where did you demonstrate that? Look at the links posted earlier which shows we have DMT within our bodies, not just the means to create it.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan
>It is essential in humans, meaning the body cannot synthesize it and thus it must be obtained from the diet.
Humans do not contain the "very specific ingredients for DMT". They eat the very non-specific ingredients. I never claimed that DMT can't be found in the human body, it can.

I see, yeah actually that's totally right.

I went off course a little when I brought the pineal gland and the production of DMT within living things. I'll admit my ignorance again on this.

The reason we produce it though and the reports that stem from this do raise some questions though. That was the general aim of the thread. Totally went overboard in trying to sell this.

>DMT is in all humans, all animals and in some plants. Everything alive actually contains the necessary ingredients to synthesize this molecule.

This is actually only a hypothesis. An oft-repeated one but still no concrete proof.

>DMT is also produced within the pineal gland

""

>a gland that a lot of products like soda, water and foods directly calcify

not even true

>They also describe that when they land in this other place, they are instantly greeted with "entities" that always wish to calm them down, make them feel safe, show them different things. Every person to reach this place - I believe upwards of 75mg will always create this experience - will tell you that they feel like one with everything.

Most people act in an idiosyncratic way on cocaine as well. That more than one person reports a similar DMT experience is no more special than the similar experience of cocaine or MDMA.

>A 4D shape that is not describable in 3D

It can be describable in words or in a 3D representation similar to how 3D is drawn in 2D. The reason you can't describe it is because you made it up while tripping.

DUDE

DRUGS

LMAO

OP if you're serious and not trolling, you should listen to what Alan Watts said about psychedelics: "When you get the message, hang up the phone." Try to pursue spirituality in Eastern religions. I think most of them were created by psychedelics.

Ok. Now we seem to be getting somewhere.

>The reason we produce it though and the reports that stem from this do raise some questions though.
We don't really produce it in any significant levels and the reason for its production has been suggested to be linked to dreams (Callaway 1988, Med Hypotheses) but has been mostly bred out of the evolutionary pool (Gallimore AR 2013, J Sci Explor).

This might make some sense since melatonin is a neurotransmitter often associated with sleep, and as has been mentioned previously, melatonin and DMT stem from the same precursor.

Assuming the "dream" hypothesis of DMT is true, the significance of DMT only extends as far as you believe dreams are significant.

If so, it isn't really a topic for Veeky Forums although an evolutional biologist might disagree and have some grand theory on the importance of dreaming. I'm a pharmacologist though. Doesn't really sound too interesting to me.

>straight edge fags trying to discuss the most powerful hallucinogenic known to man

this is entertaining

DMT is actually one of the least illegal drugs in the sense that, while schedule 1, some "religious groups" have dispensation.

Furthermore, most LE efforts go towards stopping amphetamines, cocaine and opioids. Drugs that actually kill people. Nobody cares about tryptamines and you can buy the materials to synth DMT or 5 Meo DMT without anyone batting an eye.

I've done ayahuasca and the reason you see shit that's not there is because you're on fucking drugs. Take 500ug of LSD or the safer 1P-LSD and you will have a similar experience.

>safer 1P-LSD
>safer

Source? Genuinely curious.

As someone who has experienced multiple near death experiences and countless dmt trips, I can tell you that the two aren't even remotely similar. When you smoke dmt, you pass out, trip balls, wake up and tell your mates stories about the alternate universes you just visited in your head. When you die, you feel nothing but the suffocating yet liberating sensation of nothingness.

nobody saw this documentary ?
youtube.com/watch?v=LtT6Xkk-kzk

>junkie burnout trying to talk about scientific subjects
kek

SAVE US BASED SHULGIN

i have a master in neuroscience. unlike you i'm actually interested in how these drugs work

pls answer

That's not how you do it.
Please see "The Machine"

biofag here

can i throw the notion out there to some of the previous replies in this thread that if you are so concerned about LSD that you need to extensively research and find a safer version of LSD to ingest, i would recommend not taking LSD in the first place.

neuroscience dude freaks out asian kid volume II

>not elaborating on your "1p-LSD is """"safer""""
claim

nigger

You know that all that hippie bullshit you're spouting is the only reason psychedelics are illegal, right?

Before hippies started tripping and going all rah rah fight the powah nobody cared. You fucked it for everyone you dirty cunts.

Near death experiences in brain dead people cannot be proven to be attributed to DMT REEEEE fuck off

As an aside, why are all the dosing methods for DMT unpleasant as fuck? Smoking tastes like shit/is very unpleasant on the lungs, snorting burns like a motherfucker, it tastes like shit, oral makes you vomit, and IV/IM involves being stabbed.

y u made tho

>Smoking tastes like shit/is very unpleasant
DMT isn't supposed to be burned, that's when it starts smelling and tasting like burnt plastic. It's very delicate with the temperature. That's why the simple homemade tool known as "The Machine" is the way to go, used correctly of course. It doesn't take much practice to get it right and it's much smoother.

Well I wish I'd had the good sense to do this instead when I used it.

You say you've never even taken the drug yet you claim that everyone who takes it has a similar experience of being "transported" to another dimension and making contact with machine elves (which is false). A lot of your interest in the drug seems to stem from the fact that it is illegal and you've never taken it.

People have shared experiences because they talk about how they felt on the drug which influences the next person's trip. If you spend a few hours reading erowid reports, your experience of the drug is going to be shaped by what you read there, as ultimately your trip is based purely on your subconscious.

I'm telling you what others report and some information about it. Some of that was wrong, read the thread.

I've expressed that this might not be true but I'd say the whole molecule is still up for debate. I don't believe your hypothesis that one trip report would directly influence another one in such detail. Not when you've seen over 15 reports from people.

There is no true intellectual insight to be gained from just smoking DMT and there are no magical connections between the drug and aliens or extra dimensions because its just a drug that happens to alter our consciousness but the thing straight edge fags dont get is just how unbelievably beyond the experience is. I dont think there is any scientific gain in DMT so i agree with the straight edges in shutting up the hippies that didnt go into it with a clear, realistic mind and came out with a deluded conclusion but dumb hippies and 4th dimension bullshit aside, don't think for a second that the experience is anywhere near the ballpark in a ballpark of being "fucked up" on alcohol or anything along those lines. Although hippies spout bullshit, i feel like too many people write it off as "hurr durr pretty purple elephants and elves dancing woooo duuuude a hyper cube mmaaaannnn " when the actual experience is beyond what you could ever possibly imagine sober. It's just hallucinations but hallucinations greater and more complex than what most people who never tried it give it credit for.

Its just a drug that won't take you to other dimensions or other hippie bullshit but it will basically paint a really really really really (I honestly cant emphasize this enough) pretty picture thats beyond what you imagined. The ONLY profoundness that comes from the hallucinations is the art itself for how god teir it is, for what it is, (which isnt earth changing or anything dont get me wrong) should be on an incredibly high pedestal. This shit shouldn't really be on sci though.

Sure. All of that makes sense. But you're missing the big question of why it even does that. It's been used for thousands of years with blatant connections to ancient Egypt and other ancient human civilizations.

It can't be looked at in the same way most drugs are. It doesn't just give you effects, it gives you a new plane of reality to explore.

Whatever it is, regardless if it's made up form the mind or not, it can give people answers to things and really help them out with their lives. This should in no way be class A or schedule 1. Nor should it be taken recreationally. Psychedelics have an important medical role.