Can't even keep myself from masturbating

>can't even keep myself from masturbating

Am I a slave to the body?

you are a slave to your own brain

>I'm just a simulated "conscious" that suffers while my brain just keeps there leaching from the nutrients

Define "i"

You can't get rid of an addiction m8, you just have to find another less "harmful" addiction; eg. Read books

>be me
>chilling in a coffee shop
>gorgeous woman walks past me and brushed my arm very slightly
>stare at woman as she leaves the shop
>datass.tiff
>get boner
>take off pants to make room for boner
>start masturbating against my will

Why does this always happen to me?

Are you only truly free once you can behave in a certain way despite motivations to behave in other ways? If so, why?

Just adopt a philosophy of non-attachment and non-self and your brain will no longer see it necessary to create a mind that suffers.

How do you define true freedom?
Being subject to an impulse doesn't sound like freedom to me, but that's a personal view.

Honestly, I believe true freedom is an entirely fictional construct that can never be attained. Their are only categories of limitation. I am opposed to some sorts of limitation from an emotional impulse of self preservation. I am also opposed to some absences of limitation for the same reasons.

You'll have to willingly trade the habit and the reward. Imagine if it were a coping mechanism, it's either addiction from doing it since being a teen (along with always being stimulated) or an addiction for the pleasure, or you have depression maybe? Its like a minor drug. You have to keep aware, tell yourself no (self-discipline) and give yourself a different reward. Consider how a dog needs treats at first, but then will eventually take just petting and praise as reward. You have to do this, whether it be reading (you do get smarter), or eating for the pleasure, or whatever. You have to also want to stop. I had an issue with this too, but mostly because I'd get so bored I'd want to jerk it. It's almost self-abuse, you gotta admit. Now I keep busy and don't have time to jerk it really.

I agree, partially due to the fact that the concept itself is a bit abstract. I'd say to simply be consistently content is much more than most experience in the first place.

Could you perhaps expand a bit on which sorts of limitations or absences thereof that you are opposed to?

I am against limitation for expression of emotions and perceived states mind. I am against limitations in written, AV, spoken, and gestured communications of ideas whether the ideas be true or not. I am for limitations of an individuals sole power over the production and distribution of goods. I am for limitations on any individuals possession of goods, whether they be objects communicating ideas, food, water, or minerals. I am for limitations on an individuals power of another individual or group so long as that limitations does infringe on their expression of emotions or communication of ideas. Demagogues are a grey area I can't account for. I am sure I could go into much more detail on the limitations and absences of limitations in freedom, but I don't feel like exerting the effort. I am also a little paranoid that someone might be compiling my opinions in order to study and manipulate my behavior.

Ashamed this happened to me at work.

Coworker was joking when she asked me if that's what I was doing but she's had phone sex at work so..

Well (in regards to the end, in the hopes that I may be able to assuage you of your paranoia), consider that this is an anonymous imageboard and also consider that you are in control your own behavior? As someone who has dealt with a great deal of paranoia in the past I understand the feeling, even if it's just a little bit of it.

My own remedy for paranoia was reading through a few textbooks on Psychology and Cognitive Science. I'm not sure if that would help you personally. If I knew you in person however, I would more than likely do exactly that, but more for the purposes of research and analysis rather than behavioral manipulation. (I'm not so sure whether or not the previous message helps or harms further, but at the very least I would inform you.)

I do find your views to be interesting and would agree with you on many points, but I'd like to send this reply first in the attempt to relieve you of potential anxiety. Or, as mentioned, accidentally give you more anxiety. (Sorry!)

Do we yet know just how much control we have over ourselves?

I mean people are saying that willpower is a muscle but what exactly in your brain prevents you from showing a display of willpower like that of an experienced monk right away?

From personal experience, I'd say simply "wanting" things. I gradually started cutting out TV, video games, junk food, alcohol, marijuana, pointless conversation, social media, masturbating, etc, and now it feels as though I am in completely in control of my actions. No grueling desire to do any of these things unless I choose to. As a result, simply studying and learning new things fills me with unparalleled joy. However, this is only my own experience and may not reflect the experiences that others may have.

I just stopped fapping in the middle of it. The idea is to control, reduce the ecstasy from the activity by having a negative mindset while at it. Try not to smile with the pornstars. Look for reasons to be pissed, try to be pissed for no reason. In fact: be pissed first, look for reasons later. You are used with comfort, being happy, taking the easy path, you should try feeling bad, because that is what a dopamine rush feels like. Stop lying to yourself: your life sucks, it can always be infinitely better, so you can't possibly be happy. A happy mindset is a mindset pushed by the media, because it turns you into an absolute wild consumer. You are being enslaved every time you happily accept your life and smile. You are being lied to constantly, you are very dumb and have a high image of yourself, you are ugly and think you are beautiful, you are weak and think that you are strong. IT IS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE TO BE HAPPY, ACCEPT iT, ACCEPT THE BURDEN AND SUFFERING OF LIFE, AND THEN YOU WILL FINALLY HAVE HOPE AND MOTIVATION, BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE SOMETHING TO HOPE FOR. STOP ACCEPTING BEING PACIFIED BY OTHERS, STOP CONDITIONING YOURSELF TO LAUGH AND TAKE IT EASY. YOU ARE MORE FREE THAN YOU THINK.

What's the end result? You're never going to have all knowledge about what you study. Even if you do, there will be more advancements after you die. Getting rid of human desires is essentially elevating yourself beyond a mere human, which your physical body can't keep up with (you don't have the time).

Well, I'm going into research, so I'd say to be able to do my job better and advance science wherever and however I can for future generations.

Would you say that there necessarily has to be an 'end result'?

This user gets it.
Do enough LSD for ego death and listen to Alan watts

You don't really have to do LSD. You don't even have to get rid of your things, just don't be attached to them.

Thanks, my fears stem from a paranoia that a government of private institution may be monitoring not just mine but all comments made by IP address, and determining the likely hood of a certain individual making a certain comment from the rate of access to certain facebook (and other social media sites) accounts from the same IP address. I then fear they will manipulate the behavior of dissenting individuals by creating distractions from social issues aimed at groups determined by forms of dissent.

How would you define freedom OP?
You can't control your mind. and your mind controls your body. You hear your thoughts, and your body takes action with them, and you merely witness it. Try, just try to control your thoughts. You can't. free will is an illusion. Provable in the physical realm. if you see why trying to break the illusion just creates more of the illusion, you see things. That time isn't real. That you're just a witness to reality. you are your feelings. You don't "feel" your feelings. there is no thinker, only thoughts. A thinker is just a thought. Nouns are just subjective labels of the mind. There are only verbs in reality.

you don't get it if you try to get rid of your things. If you do, you are still attached to the desire to stop desiring.

what if you are attached to goals?

There's literally no way to talk about true detachment because when you talk about it, you don't get it. when you get it, there's no more flow of thought to be able to tell anyone about. Why attach yourself to the need to tell someone, it's futile. Even now, I'm just watching my body explain this. It's weird witnessing awarness of it.

I can't really say that your fear isn't plausible or justified. The best advice I can give on the matter is engage in a calm and rational discussions of issues whenever possible, assume that the person with whom you are engaging in discussion in fully informed on the matter at hand, and ask questions whenever you're not entirely sure what it is they are talking about.

In my opinion, ego and the fear of one's ego being harmed can be one of the biggest problems that gets in the way of a proper rational discussion.

What if you are?

gottem

>Implying there's an actual reason you need to be attached to goals
you don't

but i am

i want to be a cowboy

What's stopping you?

you heard the thought of that, then the thing that tells you what's good and bad in your head gave you a positive reply. there's no "you" in there to want to be a cowboy

LSD helps. Why spend years not getting what mental attachment is when you can chemically force yourself to understand it. By ripping the things you're attached to away for alittle bit

what am i if not a thought in my head?

Well, I would say:

1. Would you be disappointed if you one day realized that you could not fulfill your goals?
2. Do you ever think about the disappointment you would feel in this case and experience displeasurable emotions to the extent that it prevents you from performing your work?
3. If so, I'd say to try to let go of the outcome and do your work for it's own sake.
4. Otherwise, I'd say you're fine. You can be attached to whatever you'd like, I'm not going to tell you what to do or feel.

>From personal experience, I'd say simply "wanting" things.

That's not enough for me because of the delayed gratification.

For example I always want to learn to draw but then I think of how long it will take me to get good and lose all motivation. It's stupid I know since there is no other way to get good but still... I just keep procrastinating.

I won't argue that it doesn't help, I'm sure it does. In terms of time; I've been practicing non-attachment for less than a year. Fundamentally it isn't difficult: just let go. That's the hard part.

1.Yes
2.Yes
3.but what if the work is hard
4.K

we're back to square one

Well, that's sort of the thing. Learning to enjoy the process rather than the outcome would probably lead to more consistent satisfaction with the work. Just draw for fun when you feel like it and try not to let it get to you when your art doesn't turn out exactly as you want it to, and you'll pick up on common patterns over time. That's the beauty of the human brain, it'll do a lot of the work for you.

Once the thought train stops, it's insane. I'd invite you to try it, it's pretty easy to see who you are If you experience ego death. You're nothing. conciousness can just get tired of itself and stop. But where does that leave "you" as a subjective viewer in the universe? I've done a shit ton of acid, and I can tell you, that I could never even begin to tell you what we really are as subjective viewers looking out of our eyes. It's like describing color to a blind person. You gotta stand up, and look away from the screen that is the game of life.

Masturbating is fine, unless you're a devout calvinist, just stop watching porn.

3. Then do easier work that's related to the work you'd like to do, and work your way up to it.

Example: somebody I know failed math throughout high school. In college, he started over from Algebra, worked his way through Geometry, and Precalculus. Now he is learning Integral Calculus on his own.

Just do it slow and take it one step at a time. You'll get better and faster at it as you go along. Without the fear of failure, most things are much easier.

i'll stop if you kik me some nudes

>Learning to enjoy the process rather than the outcome would probably lead to more consistent satisfaction with the work.

I know this. But the problem is that I don't enjoy drawing. But I need it to reach my goals. I feel like I have heard all advice there is and I thought any encouraging thought. I even got drawing books to work through. Yet there is this inner blockade in me. The funny thing is that I am not even really distracted by anything. I just keep procrastinating online but I am not really interested in the things I read about online. I feel bored of it and long to do something meaningful but then again I am faced by the fact that to aquire the skills to do anything meaningful would take a year at the very least.

I guess it's an ego problem. If I haven't started yet I feel like I have infinite potential.

/thread desu senpai

But if you jerk off to them then you're missing the point

>Just do it slow and take it one step at a time.

For me personally what's so difficult about doing this is the pressure to perform that is on you and that increases with age. If you are young and have no obligations beyond attending school there is not much of a time pressure. But when you are in your 20s or 30s you feel like you need to get good fast to prove your worth.

so what you're saying is we should meet up.

Well, afterall, the easiest way to see how to stop it, is have it stopped forcfully by the outside world. then your mind can wrap around it easily because it saw what it was like, then do it again.

>Implying there's an actual reason you need to be attached to goals

I feel like my goals define me. Letting go of all my goals would be letting go of my personality.

I'm not sure I follow.

m8

True. But can you tell me why that's bad? Why is having a personality something you "need"? because you'll feel bad that you aren't special or what? it's about being aware of your thoughts, not attaching yourself to them. in reality, you could be defined as a collection of potentials. Each one of your wants and needs are irrelevant if you're not feeling the need in this moment right now.

Wouldn't the need to prove your personal worth to others rely on the existence of an ego in the first place?

It's less about the ego and the need to have money to support yourself. It's hard to not compare yourself to others when that's what happens when you apply for a job. And if you are self-employed you still need to compete with others.

It's not letting go of your goals, so much as letting go of your attachment to your goals.

What is personality, by your definition?
Would you not rather you define your goals rather than have your goals define you?

>Why is having a personality something you "need"?

With no needs at all what will you do? Become an animal that only cares about survival? Just stay still in one spot and do nothing?

>Would you not rather you define your goals rather than have your goals define you?

What's the difference? How do you define goals without any kind of preference? What goals would a being that has no needs and is a blank slate have?

Be aware, one of the biggest ego trips, is attempting to get rid of the ego. By making outward attempts like this, your ego is being exercised. Learn to detach when appropriate. allow your ego to go on, because you can't stop it. Every time you try, it gets stronger. The moment you truly accept that and stop trying to stop it, is the moment the ego dies.

We're all just observors trapped inside autonomous bodies. I can't control its actions, I can simply watch what it's doing. Right now it's typing a post on Veeky Forums as if it thinks it was me.

I understand. I will pass no judgment on the matter, and can see how it may help.

From my understanding, LSD is a relatively harmless substance under the right circumstances--dosing, frequency, making sure it is actually LSD, etc--so I'd say as long as one is sure of these things and acts in a responsible manner, it should be alright. (Again, only to the best of my personal knowledge.)

You don't give up on the goals. That's what I'm saying that you aren't understanding. When you give up on the goals, that is you trying to detach yourself, which is in itself, attachment. you're not "supposed" to do anything except let your body go on. But you can watch it go on, instead of feeling the pain of "need"

Giving up on a goal is a goal. Please understand it user.

>you're not "supposed" to do anything except let your body go on.
You're not capable of doing anything except letting your body go on.

I do understand where you're coming from, and won't attempt to compare my experiences with your own. But from the experiences that others have shared with me, choosing to compete with yourself over competing with others has led many to positive results.

I can't tell you what to do, but getting caught up and lost in the face of either success or failure, does not seem like it could be beneficial to future results.

You should know language doesn't translate well to feeling if you know that. I'm speaking in a way that gets people to lead their mind down that trail. They get stressed about not being able to control it, but it's about accepting that you truly can't.

I get what you mean but it sounds like wishful thinking. Like I can't imagine working towards a goal and then when you don't reach that goal be all chill like "oh well whatever".

So what you're saying is that, essentially, you should accept what you are?

In other words: Learn to love yourself, not hate yourself, I guess

>With no needs at all what will you do?
>What goals would a being that has no needs and is a blank slate have?
Whatever you choose.

>How do you define goals without any kind of preference?
Lack of attachment doesn't have to mean lack of preference. Where did you get that from?

Why not?

There's no reason to feel bad about not reaching a goal when you truly understand that you have no control over weather you do or not. I'm referring to the you that is aware of the thoughts in your head, not the "you" that is the culmination of the attachments you make to the thoughts
Basically. it feels different to just be aware of it. people talk about themselves like there's 2 of you. Like "I hate myself". Who's doing the hating, and who's getting hated? There's only one. And that's the one that's "aware" of it all.

Well, perhaps to provide an example, what are your own basic needs and personal preferences?

The derailed slightly, but OP, you don't have to feel bad about masterbating because no one can control themselves. being aware that you can't control yourself, then frees up the mind to do things besides focusing on the thing they're trying to avoid. So if you truly want to stop it, you'll do it. If you truly don't, you won't. Will power is a weird thing. it's a battle in your head, and the harder you fight, the stronger the other side is.

How do you learn to deal with pain?

I wanted to make it through a dentist appointment without anesthesia but once the dentist started drilling there was this sharp, direct pain that I could not ignore. I tried to remind myself that it's just a signal and I was in no danger so there was no reason to be bothered. But it all didn't help and I quickly asked for local anesthesia. I hated myself afterwards after I felt so weak. Same happens when I try to jog or study and give up quickly when I get into discomfort.

Just what makes me so weak compared to other people that can easily endure great discomfort and pain? Do I somehow choose to be like that? Why? Do others just feel the pain less strong?

Why are you trying to get dental work done without anesthesia?

Working yourself up to it gradually would help in the case of jogging or studying--I'm not sure what could help one be able to handle the situation that you mentioned. Perhaps getting your teeth in small increments?

I'd say: lack of experience, no you don't choose to be like that, and yes, some do feel less pain. Some also feel more pain than you do. Don't get down yourself down about it though.

>Why are you trying to get dental work done without anesthesia?

Well I thought I should use that opportunity to learn how to deal with. I mean you can't always avoid pain.

I wonder if you can somehow learn to be as productive as a normal person even when suffering from cluster headaches. But I guess neuroscience isn't far enough yet?

Well, in that case, I suppose trying is more than most will ever do. Keep trying. If it hurts, it hurts. If you need the anesthetic next time, take it next time. At least you tried. It takes courage to try.

Do you experience cluster headaches? I don't really know the underlying causes of cluster headaches so for that I'd ask a doctor. Otherwise, baby steps.

I personally don't see a point in benefiting future generations.

I don't see purpose without an end result. Everything we do is about results, about achievement.

>We will never live in a world where sex is casual and everyone gets sum.

Evolution requires selective recreation to function. In principle it doesn't matter whether that selection is by nature or by choice, but the species with the most carefully tuned selective sex function evolves the quickest. And given that we're the pinnacle of evolution, us being the best at having selective sex partners seems like a natural inverse consequence.

Technically contraceptives invalidate this argment, but they haven't been around for long enough for our bodies to consider non-reproductive sex as distinct from reproductive sex.

A body to the eternal slave

>Evolution requires recreation to function.

>it doesn't matter whether that selection is by choice, the species with the most selective sex function evolves the quickest.

>we're the pinnacle of evolution

>being the best at selecting sex partners is an inverse consequence.

When the fluff is stripped away, the position just implodes under it's weight of baseless, demonstrably false premises.

Please demonstrate them as false if you believe any of my premises to be false.

The 'first life' and it's conditions were caused by evolution?

Viruses 'evolve' slower than 'sexual' multi cellulars?

Does this assumption have evidence?

How would increased 'selectiveness' necessarily improve chances of fitness, while our scarce knowledge of various selective processes reveal it's anything but logical preference for the 'best' traits? (Selection for flashiest display, or largest shiny rock collection in some birds; the loudest bellow or most swollen ass in some apes)
...Something tells me 'humans' aren't too far removed from absurd logic.

>The 'first life' and it's conditions were caused by evolution?
I don't understand this sentence

>Viruses 'evolve' slower than 'sexual' multi cellulars?
Viruses reproduce selectively. (The unsuccessful ones die)

>Does this assumption have evidence?
The technology gap between humans and the runner ups is massive. We are the only species to consciously and deliberately dominate both ecosystems and habitats with tools of our own creation. There is little doubt that we are the most intelligent creatures on the planet by a gigantic margin.

>How would increased 'selectiveness' necessarily improve chances of fitness, while our scarce knowledge of various selective processes reveal it's anything but logical preference for the 'best' traits? (Selection for flashiest display, or largest shiny rock collection in some birds; the loudest bellow or most swollen ass in some apes)
It doesn't, and that's never what I claimed.

You ARE your body in its entirety. Every cell, muscle, neurological impulse, heartbeat, etc., is you. Consequently, your desire to masturbate is also a facet of yourself. There isn't a little "you" right behind your eyes, who constitutes the voice in your head, that is a slave to your "primal" impulses and machinations. That is literally a fucking myth.

Egocentrism has fucking gotten out of hand and has seriously distorted the basic understanding of things. Start teaching these things in secondary education-it's not like there's a lot to know about it nor does it take very much intelligence (if any at all) to understand it.