Does anyone care to explain this shit? There are 12 black dots...

ask a stupid question get a stupid answer. It's obviously due to an optical illusion having to do with peripheral vision. desu thought it was a troll thread

You're retreaded for thinking this is a stupid question. These kinds of illusions can tell us a lot about the (sub)cortical organization and function of the visual system.

>It's obviously due to an optical illusion having to do with peripheral vision.
That's not an answer.
>obviously
The fucking irony.

are you too stupid to fucking google what an optical illusion is?

You obviously don't know what you're talking about, so I suggest you go fuck off somewhere.

The dots are arranged in suh a position that when you concentrate on one row, the dots on the other two rows hit the blind spot.

Seconding this.

It's independent of size or distance, so it obviously has to do with processing, not the fovea blind spot.

But the blind spot is only a small focal point on the retina. It can't hide all dots at once. Plus, if you shift the position of your head relative to the pic, or change the size of the pic, the dots should reappear. But that doesn't happen.

Shake your head rapidly in horizontal dirsction while concentrating on one single row.The dots in that row do disappear. At least they do for me.
I might be wrong tho.

>Heisenburg

right... but how would that implicate the blind spot?

Yeah but the dots are already there unlike pic related.So its not an illusion or mind fuckery and blind spot has to be the only explanation.Unless there are other phenomenons that i don't know of which let's the brain ignore certain stuff.

moving your head doesn't change anything because your eyes will just move subtly while maintaining focus on whatever you're looking at.
And if you change the size of the pic it actually does change which/how many dots you see, but due to your eyes adjusting subtly you won't be able to tell by simply re-sizing the image in real time. However save the image in paint and make several copies of various sizes and switch between them and you will see different numbers of dots.

ITT: autist getting his mind blown by a fucking optical illusion

We already had some other suggestions for possible mechanisms that don't involve the blind spot.

There are other illusions that arise due to different mechanisms as well. For instance, Google motion induced blindness.

This guy, seriously.

Your too dumb too even understand what the question is here. No fucking shit it's an optical illusion. What we want to know is what causes it. As in, what is the neural process that causes the illusion.

BECAUSE THE DOTS ARE IN YOUR PERIPHERAL VISION AND YOU CAN ONLY FOCUS ON ONE OR A FEW THING

WHY? BECAUSE THAT'S HOW OUR BRAINS FILTER OUT USELESS INFORMATION

I can't tell if I'm being trolled or if you are literally this retarded you can't figure this out on your own

>Google motion induced blindness
Pic related. Keep staring at the center dot. Note that the blind spot could only cover one dot at a time, so it cannot be responsible for multiple dots disappearing.

This illusion is due to the surface completion properties of the cortex, which will naturally tend to occlude the peripheral dots. Early (pre-cortical) parts of the visual system are organized in such a way that they feed forward surface and edge information about the visual environment. Your cortex then fills it in.

Jesus, shut the fuck up already.

forgot pic

>YOU CAN ONLY FOCUS ON ONE OR A FEW THING
You're suggesting this illusion is due to an attention bottleneck. But the edges remain, only the dots disappear, which is inconsistent with a bottleneck. I'm gonna go ahead and say you're retarded one more time.

I'm guessing processing of the horizontal and vertical lines over rides the dots.

Lines, shapes, motion are all done separately.

You can fuck up someone for life if you raise them in a box with horizontal lines, they've done it with cats, since scientists are assholes.

Yeah that's one of the hypotheses that came up. Overzealous edge detection.

ok, you guys win. I got trolled

If that's what you need to tell yourself to leave, then fine by me.

Pretty sure you just trolled yourself.

>only see one dot at a time
Does this mean I'm a brainlet?

but when looking into the middle and blinking fast I can see all dots

I've given you the correct answer several times now, yet you continue to dismiss this because it doesn't fit the answer that you want it to have. You have made no valid counter arguments that would prove me otherwise and just want to resort to name calling because you seem to want some specific answer about specific regions of the brain being triggered - when clearly the is much more simple than you want to make it out to be.

If that's not trolling I don't know what is.

The horizontal and vertical lines create distractions, the dots give you something to focus on, put them together and your brain freaks out. The dots seem to disappear and reappear depending on what is in your peripheral vision and what you are focusing on. The fact that you can't look at any optical illusion and come to the same conclusion without knowing the specific name for the exact psychological illusion being induced is simply mind blowing to me.

Are you really that dumb? Am I being trolled? I don't even know any more

I can kinda see all 12, or fully see a 3x3 square if I don't focus my vision at all

I'd be interested to know if adding more dots (say where the diagonals between the existing dots intersect) would make the original dots more visible, or not affect it at all.

I always see 3, except when I blink fast then I see more

>your brain freaks out
real technical explanation there
you could have said "it's magic" and your answer would have the same content

You're willfully persistent. And it seems to be fueled by the volatile mix of arrogance and ignorance.

>I've given you the correct answer several times now
No, you certainly have not. That's because you don't even understand the question that is being asked, as I've pointed out several times myself. We're talking in circles.

>You have made no valid counter arguments
I've already pointed out why your moronic 'explanation' is inconsistent with the data. You somehow seem to think that this thing is due to 'distraction' that makes the brain 'freak out'. Aside from its childlike simplicity, this explanation neither points to mechanism nor does it fit with what we do know about the brain or what little data we have actually gathered here. First, you're implying that the lines are more salient than the dots (the lines 'distract') but that doesn't fit with how people view this stimulus: fixating on the dots. Salient features are the ones we fixate on, so if anything, the dots are more salient than the lines. Second, if we (wrongfully) assume that the lines are most salient, and that is what causes them to occlude the dots, then why can we see twelve dots overlayed on a vastly more complex scene (let's say, a forest) perfectly fine? You're assuming that distraction causes perceptual extinction, but it does not. Which is why your answer is wrong, and if you'd know anything about neuroscience or visual perception, this would be obvious to you. And that's the reason I keep pointing out that you don't understand the question that is being asked. You simply don't have the tools to begin to answer questions like these. There's so much more I could write here, but why don't you just do us all a favor and leave? You're not helping anyone. And clearly you're frustrated.

someone just got torn a new asshole

Most people don't notice, but your focus point when looking at something is pretty small. If your brain doesn't have information, it will create its own based on current and past knowledge. There's less information being perceived in the areas of an image you aren't focused on, and this causes the brain to fill in that information with a good-enough guess. It does the same thing where your optical nerve connects to your eye in slightly different way. the nerve connects through the wall of light sensitive cells, so there's a patch of area in your retina not actually perceiving light. To stop you from going insane, your brain just guesses based on the surroundings. it works because the points that it fills in unconconciously are never points you are directly focusing on.

Good suggestion. My hunch is that it would lessen the illusion. If edge detection is overriding the representation of the dots, then more dots may reduce the edge dominance in the image. In addition, extra dots could allow all the dots to be chuncked into one perceptual object in the form of a grid, making the individual dots less prone to extinction.

Right, so you're saying it's due to pattern completion in the periphery?

That's my understanding of it. Seems likely due to the fact that it's a peripheral illusion.

I doubled the dot density. Did I miss any? Cause it's hard to tell.

this is pretty freaky, you can literally see a spotlight around your point of focus, outside of which there are no dots

Cool. If anyone could make the grey lines much more prominent by increasing the contrast, and maybe changing the color to red? That should worsen the illusion if it's due to perceptual filling.

>mfw noone itt can see all of the dots
Eyelets.

doesn't seem to do much

if anything, it's less intense for me now

Looks like you added some dots in the rows in which there weren't any previously?

yeah, that's what user asked for

this is cool

>That should worsen the illusion if it's due to perceptual filling.

I guess not., and it makes sense in retrospect The contrast must have been low in the first place to facilitate filling.

SAVAGE
A
V
A
G
E

I see six black dots at once.

When someone has an idea they want to share, they usually present a more simple description. From this description, you can interpret what their higher understanding is. This other user seems unreasonably autistic from the explanations he gives.

I'd presume it's to do with regularity and how the brain handles perception of geometric patterns. We can see dots against a complex background like a forest because that's what our brains are evolutionarily geared toward. To become more efficient, the brain takes geometric, simply repeating patterns and unconsciously presumes their uniformity. When the brain has to percieve a forest, it's on a more complex level, the shortcuts won't work. but in simple geometries, the brain takes a shortcut in "hopes" of creating a complete image efficiently. This works in evolutionary terms because we've never had a need for the brain to percieve things like this more accurately. I'd say it's to do with information handling and inconsequential gaps in perception.

>I'm too retarded to use Google, so I'll repeat my own wrong ideas and call him autistic
No one cares what you have to say anymore, buddy

I can see 5 fairly easily and very occasionally 6, although I cant tell whether im actually seeing all 6 at once or just convincing myself i am

damn son

If half the image is blocked from view on both the original and double density all dots become visible.

If i only block one column of dots i can most of the time make out 8 or 9 on the original. Didnt test DD picure.

It is only when seeing the whole picture the brains seems to disclude a larger amount of the black dots.

Cannot test on a mobile device atm, but if the lattice was "squared" for lack of a better term would the effect still be there? Possibly amplified or would it fall apart?

This image alone should btfo anyone talking about blind spots, different angles, blocking rows/columns, etc. I see 12+ dots here whereas I can only see 4 in the OP's image at best. Color obviously has something to do with it.

Wrong user, new friend. I was agreeing with the post

I submit, that it is you who is autistic, for completely missing the point of the post. Can't understand complex English user?

If you're too slow to get it yet, I was referring to the user whom you seem to think is me as autistic. Fuck off

My bad, it was late

If i do that, all of the dots disappear. Slight movement of my focus causes the one dot in that direction to reappear.

>cant troll properly
>responds unironically when called out on it
>and does so with this horrendous piece of shit:
>desu thought it was a troll thread

jesus christ. put the memes down you fucking normie. especially the nip terms, weaboo

Its the exact same mechanism. Your brain saves a ton of processing space by taking shortcuts and filling in gaps based on surrounding patterns. Those shortcuts can include or occlude perceived information.
Check out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_perception and follow links.

I can see 7 dots

Pretty cool thread

>it also points to lateral inhibition being (one of) the culprit(s) here.
Not necessarily, because it could also be the case that edge detection and perceptual filling are simply less effective when part of the visual field is missing.

>Color obviously has something to do with it.
We can't say that yet. It's probably the low contrast that makes the dots blend in with the lines. If line color is the key feature, then making the dots orange when the lines are red should not affect the illusion. But I think it will, because it'll lower the contrast between the dots and the lines.

Shit this is trippy.

Look into the center, focus. Kalaediscope vision my vision in prividest form.

You can see all of them if you move your head

I can see all the black dots

but now my brain invents whiteish grey dots everywhere

tl;dr your eyes don't capture all the information, they just capture parts and your brain fills out the rest

Peripheral vision is very blurry.
Your brain constantly constructs an image from bits of evidence and you perceive it as a complete image though it is not.
Saccadic eye movememt results in a blurry mess when moving from one focal point to another.
Your brain rejects the mess, and dubs over it with what you see once your eyes have focused on the new spot.
You never consciously perceive the streaked blur of your eye movement.

I can see 5 at the same time if I look in the lower left or right corners.

sort of a sideways-h arrangement

Am I superhuman?

>Am I superhuman
Going by the posts in this thread, your perceptual filling system is just broken.

autists btfo

It seems to me that you're mixing up two different mechanisms here: 1) saccadic suppression of image displacement and 2) perceptual completion. These are different processes.

the brain does a horrific amount of abstraction and interpolation to allow you to perceive a uniformly clear visual field.

Your eyes can see more detail in the center of your vision, so while you look directly at 1 dot, the others on the periphery of your vision are more difficult to notice.

Your brain possibly plays a role by confusing dots on the periphery of your vision with other spots where 3 lines cross.

The white outline of the black dots makes them appear more grey.

>3
?

im seeing 6 and sometimes 5.

It really depends on the size of the image. Works differently on mobile phone than PC monitor, for instance.

when I focus a point I can see all the dots when I blink rapidly, and almost none when I try to blink as little as possible

Bump