I'm so tired of irony. Why does it feel like nobody wants to be earnest anymore?

just don't forget that the 'neo-' ruins everything and never really captures the thing it wants to bring back

if you want romanticism back you will need a motivator much stronger than "I think the romantics wrote better"

you do not become Wordsworth by enjoying Wordsworth's poems, especially if you mainly like them as a convenient stick with which to beat the modernists

Convince them it's the only feasible next step, some sort of emotional gnostic hyper-individualism.

>Why does it feel like nobody wants to be earnest anymore?

Because ironic distance is the easiest move for a coward; it allows you to express an opinion without being held to it.

In our age when nobody thinks it's possible to have a good enough justification for his own beliefs the only way to speak without the danger of reproach is to speak from behind a mask. In one's own person, that mask is irony; on this website, the mask is anonymity.

Whether you post your opinions anonymously or voice them ironically, you are a coward.

Shall we blame the post-modernists for making us cowardly? I don't see why it's not our own damn fault

>I'm so tired of irony. Why does it feel like nobody wants to be earnest anymore?

What did he mean by this?

I'm not much acquainted with pomo, how would one revitalize, or at least make the effort to revitalize, the honesty and immediacy of romantic and modern lit? What's the innate factor in pomo that distances people from their own honesty?

The only antidote to irony and phoniness is religion.

You know I'm right.

I wouldn't say religion specifically, but characters whose views are larger than themselves, characters involved in the world, not self-indulgent, self-absorbed, self-involved navel-gazers

>write earnestly
>get criticized for being a cringey dumb faggot
>kill yourself

>write ironically
>receive praise for your wit and cynicism because being edgy is cool
>any critics are laughed out because haha dude I was being le ironic :^):^)

see

Postmodern irony and insincerity is quite possibly the most deadly symptom to come out of the death throws of late capitalism, and all the smug postmodernists who put this disease on us thinking that they were liberating us are among the worst intentions to come out of philosophy and politics. And the losers who shitpost memes all day and think being suicidal and communists are genuine forms of sincerity are only stomping on the ashes of actual sincerity. But there is no returning to the optimism and sincerity of modernism at this point. We're far too remove to ever go back. Metamodernism is perhaps the only response that holds any possibility for liberation, but I don't hold out much hope with its current state.

It's hard to be attached to yourself because that's where all our hurt is stored. Heavy hearts can hold you hostage so you wield irony like a scalpel to take that truth out of your body. The ironic is always hollow at its center because it's missing that truly human element.

I am inexorably drawn to the metaphysical and supernatural and the love promised in religion is so seductive and earnest.

Because you are on Veeky Forums.

This is true. I've found myself drawn in completely by religion after coming to the realization of how far postmodern irony has degraded society, because there is an inherent and unspoken genuine sincerity to devoting oneself to God, which I'm only recently becoming cognizant of.

It's strange just how many things irony and sarcasm are supposedly to blame for in the eyes of New Sincerity types. Consumerism, obedience to authority, the downfall of western civilization. I suppose it's a convenient scapegoat, especially with a lot of the cynical pretentious twentysomethings running around nowadays. And for sure, those people definitely use sarcasm as a kind of mask to hide the idiosyncrasies in their own opinions about the world. But why must the alternative be this strange, almost ritual obedience to earnestness? Certainly being earnest isn't the same thing as being honest. Being honest requires someone to be honest with themselves, and to ask themselves just how much they want to reveal about themselves, both in their art and in their daily life. Being earnest is essentially submission to revealing oneself as a kind of moral value. As people, there are some things that we would prefer to reveal to our friends or to our family that we wouldn't be so keen on revealing to every other living human being on the planet, so why is it supposedly a virtue to do so? I say that artists ought to and will ultimately be just as "earnest" as they are comfortable being. If an artist chooses to put themselves on display and show the world exactly what kind of a person they are, I'd say that's equally as valid as an artist who chooses to distance themselves entirely from their work.

Being ironic is a defense mechanism utilized by idiots and self-conscious people so that any criticism directed towards them doesn't assail their actual beliefs or feelings

Irony is all that's left. Everything important has already been said.

Good response, user

Keep fighting the good fight, user.

>thinking that the Modernists weren't ironic
>thinking that we are in the postmodern period
>thinking that postmodernism, or any literary 'movement' for that matter, is temporally singular and not expansive

I hate how people conflate irony with postmodernism. I hate how most of Veeky Forums barely understand Romanticism and Modernism, let alone the avant garde and postmodernism. I hate how people make bold claims about 'this generation' purely from their own observations on the state of the world around them. I hate how people mutilate literary terminology like 'sincerity' and 'irony' by oversimplifying them.

Does Veeky Forums learn everything from wikipedia entries and single semester courses?

These threads trigger me so much.

Explain how it is, then.

comorbid symptom not final cause

Romanticism is to blame for modern art and the bullshit we have to deal with today.

Read Knausgård.

Not him but a more than sufficient understanding of those concepts could be attained just through reading Plato.stanford or Wikipedia

Hi retard, I'm dad

> and that cute anime guy who makes cool faces.

Psssssh nothing personal kid.

Where can I sign up?

Religion is an irony in itself. If you are good at pretending, go for it.

>in itself

>religion is merely pretending

Hm, maybe I should rephrase my statement since it sounded a bit too /pol/. But 19th century romanticism was the point where artists focus shifted on a larger scale to introspective and the exploration of the personal inner feelings. That's of course not a bad thing and tirggered a long line of great artworks but it's also the reason why we have the kind of special snowflakes running around, who think that their inane bullshit is somehow praiseworthy. Again, "blame" isn't probably the right word but it's definitely an effect of that period (and the popularisation of psychology, too) and a major turning point for our modern understanding of what is considered art today.

Just do hard drugs and have a bad trip like I did. can't be ironic when you almost kill yourself

I am glad that self-realism is evaporating away, for it signifies a transition to something better. The best art always involves relation, and the relationships in consequence to said conditions are superior.

Doesn't any art by definition involve relations? No matter if I react positively or negatively to a piece of art, through my reaction I have a realtion with it. If this doesn't happen, it's not art.

Pretty much.

stop projecting

It was all just silly memes to me so idk lol

>tfw virginia will never sit on your face

Being "real" is now a way for you to get fucked over and used rather than a source of strength and identity
Why be earnest when I can hide beneath 6 layers of irony?
This gives me freedom to think while disrupting the thoughts of those who wish to control me through appeals to morality etc

My question is, why did DFW decide when he was gonna be earnest the most important thing was to express his excitement about shit cartoons and other garbage pop-culture. As if sincerity must ultimately lead a person to admit they are a childish buffoon.

Don't you see? He was a redditor.

beause everything else is just boring to say earnestly.
Wow, you think war and peace is a good novel? what an interesting an innovative opnion you've got there

Or you could write a book with great themes like War and Peace rather than about TV and Austism.

Austism, the mental disorder of coming from Austin, Texas.

Not but fuck you. Think of the themes of war and piece and besides war you'll find most if not all of them in infinite jest too.

yeah. pretty much.

>begin dating qt
>be ironic/sarcastic/witty first few dates
>she likes me a lot
>spend more time together
>begin liking her quite a bit
>earnestly and sincerely express my affection for her
>she seems hesitant
>begins to grow distant
>feel sad and upset that she's growing distant
>earnestly tell her that i feel miserable and express my affection for her
>begins ignoring me
>decide to return to ironic/sarcastic self, text something in similar vein
>she responds
>talks normally now
>I can't stand the insincerity
>I have to tell her how i sincerely feel
>be sincere
>qt becomes distant again

there is no hope. being sarcastic/ironic is cool. if you're sincere it will come across as pathetic and cringeworthy and needy and sappy.

that qt claimed to be a romantic at heart but she couldn't stand me being sincere about my affection for her and silently built distance from me.

i hate the fact that i crave sincerity in a world so obsessed with irony. i feel sick of all the ironic banter that most of the people who used to be my friends would employ as a crutch for conversation. after a while it loses the novelty for me but not for them. it prevented the few friends i had from opening up and being expressive in difficult times because the conversation HAD to be ironic and sarcastic and witty and caustic. my attempts at being sincere were laughed at or derided or made them uncomfortable.

fuck this shit.
i lost my friends and the qt because i was a sincere person.

>Besides the War

Kek.

if you'd have actually read the novel you'd know that much more time is spent at evening parties than on the battlefields.

If you'd read the book, you'd know it ends with an essay about Napoleon you fag.

Stop comparing Tolstoy to DFW its cringe worthy.

do you know that the thing about themes is not which ones you're using but HOW you use them? Never have I said that, for istance, Wallace's use of love or spiritual growth was as in depth or just as good as Tolstoy's, you implying retard.

>"Here is what I think"
>"No you are oversimplifying things"
>That's it
Why even bother to post at all?

Keep Autism Weird.

dfw no gf

that sucks, user. Luckily we can be honestly depressing on Veeky Forums ;)

>;)
unironically kys

I also had this problem with my friends, but I think everybody is just insecure about themselves and simply do not know how to open up without feeling too vulnerable. I think it's a simple defense mechanism.

Right now, I said fuck it and am trying to become the most sincere and free I can, and while some friends have said I was being "weird", most of them are really comfortable around me, and I can feel them loosening up when I'm with them.

I think it will all be smoother when we are older, user, so don't lose your heart because of this episode.

>thinking anyone is referring to irony in the context of Modernist usage
>thinking the culture of the current age isn't a direct result of postmodernism
>thinking that the multiplicity of postmodernism somehow discredits its influence
Thanks for your sincere opinion user. Shame it's shit and ill-informed.

*tips*

Disillusion is a one-way street. It doesn't make things worse or better, but simply wider. And part of that newfound width is an inability to return to magical charms that once worked. Sincerity as it was will become as impossible to magically enact as prayer has become. We're just moving to deeper and more disturbing waters.

I have the feeling that this will get better with age. I'm assuming you're late-teens through mid-20s, in which case its inevitable that most people your age will be using irony as a crutch to compensate for their lack of understanding of the depth of their emotions, lack of personality development, and inability to cope with criticism. I'm still in the same age group, but dated a girl that was in her 30s, and it was much easier to be genuine and sincere with her than anyone my age, and there was never any need to mask our actual emotions with irony. Perhaps it was circumstantial and I'm just being optimistic, but it could be the case nevertheless. I'm still trying to find friends that don't require 10 layers of irony to even hold a simple conversation or suspect I'm gay because of my lack of ironic distance.

Masks are better than the face underneath them. People are more honest when they wear a mask.

Irony is earnest, everybody with an IQ over 90 can tell it's a defence mechanism.

Given that our understanding about writers and historical figures is very tainted by misinformation and sometimes lack of information, wanting to be like a fictional person isn't any different, if the said person is somewhat realistic.

>if you're sincere it will come across as pathetic and cringeworthy
more like tiresome and dumb. Show some creativity for fuck's sake. Any dickhead can talk about their feelings. Shite-talk is the purest expression of language.

modernism is a response to modernity
postmodernism is a response to postmodernity

resurrecting thread