Where were you when XKCD BTFO global warming apologists?

global temperatures according to what? the falsified land surface record?
totally normal for the historical record to change every year!

grist.org/series/skeptics/
Reminder that climate change deniers cannot be reasoned with. Posting information contrary to their opinions does nothing but waste your time, they are not here to learn they are here to preach. Shift+click the thread and if you must respond remember to put sage in the options field.

>BTFO global warming apologists
>apologists
>BTFO
Am I missing something?

>all data that disagrees with me is fake!
>because I said so!
and I suppose Satan put dinosaur bones in the ground too...

4hiroshimas.com/

What data? Who recorded temperatures in 1850?

The actual xkcd image cites where the data was chosen from.
And has another axis at the top.

no it doesn't

xkcd.com/1732/

It's global temperature and time, what more do you need?

>we construct a record of global surface temperature from 80 proxy records

They aren't real measurements. It's highly speculative and probably wrong.

>CE

The temperature axis is right there

So are the sources (down the side of the graph). He only gives the authors and the dates but if you search those alongside words like global temperature you'll probably find them. You could also email him.

...

This is so disingenuous.

Read the methods:
atm.damtp.cam.ac.uk/mcintyre/shakun-co2-temp-lag-nat12.pdf

If at some point in time there was a 25-year spike in warming, we wouldn't know it. To claim all change was gradual until now is pseudo-science. We just have no way to know anything but some highly speculative proxy-taken averages for 300-year periods. You can't then go and compare that to our highly accurate daily measurements. Apples and oranges.

Why do so many /Pol/ fags browse this board? How does any of math and sciences relate to alt right white nationalists? Please just leave

>if denounce bad pseudo-science on the part of xkcd, you are racist
it doesn't even mean you deny global warming, it just means xkcd is a braindead college-dropout moron

I thought he had a physics bs
Altright /pol/fags didn't make this shit thread, only attracted them

Regardless of whether or not climate change is a thing that's caused by humans, why are petrolfags so insistent on milking the oily Jew until it runs dry? Why do they insist on being dependent on sand niggers for energy? Why don't they start investing in alternative energy sources now so that we won't be in a clusterfuck later when oil runs out?

that is an interesting point, thanks for bringing it up.

there's not going to be a problem, solar has never been bigger. the concern people have is getting caught up in these internationalist schemes to "combat global warming" which is essentially waste massive amounts of money abroad that might make a dent in the problem eventually maybe.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_temperature_record

[After setting your car on fire] Listen, your car's temperature has changed before.

Shit I thought this was /pol/ for a second.

I'm disappointed in you Veeky Forums

>CE

>buh, muh conspiracy theory
Just a reminder, in 2006, the tobacco industry was found guilty of “a massive 50-year scheme to defraud the public.”
publichealthlawcenter.org/sites/default/files/resources/doj-final-opinion.pdf

>tobacco indusry worth 35 billion
>petroleum industry worth 1.2 trillion
You really think the world can go up against a conspiracy backed by that kind of capitol? You could get every world leader on this today and you couldn't fight it. Maybe if we fought it for 35-50 years we'd make some headway, but the it won't be in time to save the planet. We're fucked.

Lets say you had a single machine that produces unlimited electricity but had to be kept secret, how would you use it to stop global warming?

>How does any of math and sciences relate to alt right white nationalists?

Well, math and science were made by white males, and they still do mostly (with some asians and indians now, males too).

Progressives gotta prog.

Can't mention anything related to Christianity, even though their oikophobic ideology is a mutation of it.

It's much larger and it does have another axis. OP just screenshotted the bottom.
It's the current comic on xkcd.com

WE

remove carbon from the air, sell half as coal and bury the other half somewhere in nevada

This.

Renewable, distributed energy systems have their own merits a thousand fold over our current power generation and distribution systems. We should be dropping coal and oil companies for ideological purposes more than any other reason.

Do you faggots not realize that if we fully invested in renewables now, you could be not paying for electricity at all in 10 years?

Because economics. They use oil when it is the cheapest option so anything that adversely affects oil means they have to switch to something more expensive.

You might argue "you're short sighted so I'll make a good long term investment for you", but you forget market forces apply to capital markets as well. If they wanted a long term investment there are plenty of better opportunities. Also they could make short term investments now and funnel the higher returns from STIs into LTIs when the STIs are overcapitalized and when solar tech is more profitable.

You might argue "son, not everyone is an American. You know the nazis and commies in your video games? well some folks are still like that today, they believe in a crazy war god called Allah Snackbar and we have to stop them" and this is a completely fair argument. Though again, market forces, we have to measure up the pros and cons and people with far more experience than you or I were doing so already.

It is always possible to gun down immigrants. It was done with great success during the last Balkans war. Also mothers with their children were given the brakka-brakka. A quick perusal at /k/ suggests suited people for such guard duty are easily found.

>why are petrolfags so insistent
Inertia. Same reason why people used horses rather than cars, sails rather than steam, slaves rather than machines etc.

Good start. You could go a lot further with unlimited energy:
- sell Carbon sub nitride, cubanes and other high energy carbon compounds rather than coal
- power electricity demanding industries like Al refining which is now moved to China and Middle East where they use vast amounts of gas and coal for power
- and do this so cheaply you put the competition completely out of business forever.

>shooting children is the solution
the american isis, folks

how do you remove carbon from the air? wouldn't it be better to remove it from the ocean?

Actually it was done in southern Europe and was briefly shown on TV.

>how do you remove carbon from the air?
Coll down air, remove first water vapour (which you can sell as distilled water) and then down to -88 C where dry ice forms. extract the dry ice, heat with H obtained by electrolysis of water) and form hydrocarbons.

>wouldn't it be better to remove it from the ocean?
It is harder but if you can do it there will be a lot more of it trapped in seawater.

I think I should invest into real estate in Finland while they're cheap...

>Make unlimited amount of money
>Fund Terraforming projects that plant billions of trees all over the world to reduce CO2 before this planet becomes a methane filled hellhole

Alternatively
>fuck off to Mars with a harem and just leave everything behind

Except the current spike isn't 25 years long

I know I know
>Strawman

But still
youtu.be/OWXoRSIxyIU

Yeah, the world is warming. That's a fact. But:

1.- It would be nice to see a graph of the last warming period (actually, we are living in a cold age).
2.- climate models sucks. Only because they say it is CO2, it doesn't mean is CO2. I mean, I asked a guy working on that about methane emissions (you know, more cows, less tress=a lot of methane.) He didn't even know what would the "models" say. The same models that cannot predict yesterday weather with today data.

>weather
wew
lad

So where exactly do find the prove that climate change is man-made? Last time I checked, humans were responsible for 5% of co2 emissions, and the earth has both been hotter and colder and still supported life.

The same way you do everything else in science: you make different theories, draw their QUANTITATIVE consequences and see which one fits the best.
The thing with "skeptics" is that they want a certain explanation to be true (solar activity, volcanoes, etc.) but fail to realize that models based on those hypothesis do a much worse job at retrofitting past data than the AGW model.

Because it's going to be a clusterfuck no matter what. Renewables lead to higher power costs and pushback from the public. Likewise renewables all use rare earth minerals which come from China. Pick your poison.

For starters consider the cost of making all cars and all trains electric. That's billions if not trillions of dollars.

That's bullshit. The "too cheap to meter!" meme goes back over a century to the original hydro dam projects in the late nineteenth century. Nuclear power made the same promise.

Ultimately oil is king because oil just works. Economics is a science. It's cheap, relatively abundant, and people like driving. It's easier to transition out of it (through escalating energy costs) than it is to drop it cold turkey and get people pushing back. Already the EU has to scale back it's renewable energy commitments because money is tight.

WUZ

>Economics is a science.
no

>it is always possible to gun down immigrants
Congrats friendo, you win the edgiest and most unfeasible post of the day award

Human CO2 emissions upsets the natural balance.

skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions-intermediate.htm

Maybe retrofitting past data doesn't make any sense? What if climate is dominated by some kind of random walk, or the system is too chaotic to draw any predictions?
My main issue is that the field is too influenced by political and corporate interests, much like GMO research.

grist.org/climate-energy/climate-models-are-unproven/
Predictions have been made for many things.

nuclear was halted by government regulation
Theres no reason why Nuclear couldn't actually become "too cheap to meter"

But the elites have no reason in wanting to see cheap electricity.

Nuclear is cheap as fuark.
The only reason we get fucked over in France is the European energy market regulations, but the actual production is so fucking cheap.

France has some of the lowest energy rates in europe, so you don't get fucked over at all. Not as cheap as the US though.

>believing in global warming

Sheep

principia-scientific.org/nasa-exposed-in-massive-new-climate-data-fraud/

principia-scientific.org/billions-barrels-oil-discovered-texas/
For a website that claims not to have political motive and focus solely on unbiased science they sure do have a hard on for oil.

>hottest summer in recorded history
>world isnt heating up
Kek

Every fucking year some faggots confused by data treatment make that claim.
See for example back in 2007
web.archive.org/web/20070704012242/tamino.wordpress.com/2007/05/11/best-estimates/

because math is the essence of logic and reason, which alt right white nationalists are the voice of.

>methane emissions
That is political dynamite.

Rice farming emits vast amounts of methane and there is no chance ever that China, a huge rice producer, will make any concessions here.

>Nuclear is cheap
As long as cost of decommissioning a large hot nuclear core is extermalized. Last time I herd figures it was way too big to take and Sweden now extends the life time of their reactors to dodge this bullet.

t'other way 'round lad

>Congrats friendo, you win the edgiest
I forget ironical distance does not work in here. It is unfortunate I have to explain I am not one for cold blooded mass murder.

>and most unfeasible post of the day award
The second point of my post is that edgelords do exist in the real world and they, the border guards, had no problems in gunning down a mother and her two children in front of a TV crew.

With a 10x growth in nuclear power we have Uranium only for 20 years. After that we need new sources which no longer can be considered to be low hanging fruits and price will increase, moreso when the mining companies see the desperation that comes from hundreds of potentially idle nuclear power stations. If you think Arabs are pushing the oil price I'll leave you to imagine what the mining giant like Rio Tinto will do.

America isn't gonna feel shit from it
It truly is gods land that we stole from the noble savages

scientificamerican.com/article/global-warming-obama-report/
wrong

>tfw you realize global warming will turn the British Isles into a lush, fertile land with great weather
>British were getting sick of millenia of shitty weather
>burning oil was a premeditated plan by the eternal anglo all along

Where were you when xkcd self-annihilated?

>liberals

Triggered much, kid?

>Where were you when XKCD BTFO global warming apologists?

One of the axis isn't even labeled.

The data points are bullshit, the conclusions are wrong, it's not original research....

XKCD isn't a scientist, he is a Science-hipster.

>and price will increase
increased uranium demand would lead to LOWER prices, if anything.
And the cost of uranium is almost irrelevant towards the cost of nuclear plant operations.

Little Ice Age in quotes, forgets the roman and medieval warm periods doesn't mention satellite records. i'm no denier but cmon man its not as bleak as this that "current path" looks a lot like RCP 8.5 too which really wasn't supposed to be a "business as usual" scenario either. theres a lot of unfounded doom and gloom in these threads.

>graph clearly shows that even if we try to do as much as possible right now, we're already too late
>people still want to waste billions of dollars just to slow down the inevitable
what's the point?

Can you please show it with the actual numbers?

Retards ignoring science/playing the evolution/must out-consume-you game. Maybe evolve your offpsring to be good a living in/consuming all the toxic waste would be a good play bro. I suppose the Indians bathing in their own filth shit are off to a good start eh.

Other retardeds thinking muh carbon taxes muh nuclear/muh hydro electric will save us. What a hillarious fucking joke. The disease is consumption of energy, treating the symptom (global warming) and introducing new forms of energy will not cure the disease. Humanity is about 6 orders of magnitude too stupid to save itself from this, as is clearly apparent through reading the utter crap that is posted on boards like this. LOL.

>Le Edgy nihilist/fatalist opinion.

I remember that phase of my life too. It gets better after high school man

>Last time I checked, humans were responsible for 5% of co2 emissions
The percentage of emissions would seem relevant if you are ignorant of the fact that carbon dioxide is also absorbed through natural processes. What matters is the net contribution to the atmosphere, not simply how much is emitted. That's like comparing your calorie intake to Michael Phelps' and then complaining that you're fat while he's skinny. Man's contribution of CO2 to the atmosphere is greater than 100%, because nature actually absorbs more than it emits while man does not. So please stop spouting this idiotic meme.

Also, the issue is not that life will cease at some temperature, but that life *as it currently exists* will cease. Humans and the ecology we rely on are used to Earth being a certain way. Rapid warming does not allow life to easily adapt and thus we will suffer from a variety of negative consequences.

grist.org/climate-energy/kyoto-is-a-big-effort-for-almost-nothing/

Awesome response brah. Classic. Truly classic.

How about that every environmental catastrophe prediction has failed miserably.

>unlabeled axis
>time as a vertical

Nuclear winter can halt the process entirely but once the ash settles if we're still business as usually then it'll be all for nothing. If we can change out habits now, then after the nuclear winter the planet could stabilize.

Also, as global warming continues there will be less and less farmable land and less food to go around. We haven't lived in a food scarce world for a few hundred years. When the time comes war will break out, if not to steal recources then to prevent refuges as there will be no room for them. This is why Trump is adamant about a physical wall blocking Mexico. They know this, they're planning this. It looks inevitable at this point that war will break out.

Look you fucking idiot. I've got 3 degrees in Engineering/physics. When's the last time you even read a fucking book?

Now shut the fuck up. You are stupid beyond belief.

And none in climatology or GES so your opinion means about as much as posturing meaninglessly about credentials on an anonymous image board. Refute my arguments instead of making yourself an authority to appeal to.

>the whole image has temperature on the x axis, this is just a part of it
>well you wont like relativity then

Zika, famine, record hurricanes, floods, refugees coming to a place near you within years if not already, having fun in your temporary non-catastrophe safe space?

>First, it’s a red herring. The purpose of Kyoto is to establish international political and economic mechanisms for dealing with global warming, by taking the first tentative steps toward a difficult goal. You may as well time me walking to the sidewalk where I parked my car bicycle and then tell me at this rate I will never get home.
this gives me no reason to invest in fighting global warming

>Second, Kyoto is a step-by-step process. The second phase (much less third, fourth, etc.) has not even been negotiated yet. How can anyone claim anything about how effective it is going to be? Junk Science and other sources of this propaganda are starting their dubious calculations from the assumption that Kyoto ends in 2012 when round one is over. That is just wrong.
all this says is 'there's more to be done that hasn't been talked about yet', also not a good reason to try fighting global warming

>Third, the temperature several decades from now is to a large extent already determined by the current energy imbalance, thanks to extra CO2 already in the atmosphere. Short of a complete cessation of emissions today, there is no foreseeable way to avoid the bulk of the warming “in the pipeline.” This is mostly due to the extreme thermal inertia of the oceans and therefore the climate system as a whole. It means that our actions today, or our inaction, will have consequences several decades hence.
this is basically repeating what i said, that it's too late

>Finally, I have a rather personal peeve with people who vociferously criticize any attempt at a solution and yet propose nothing in its place. You’d think if they were so sincerely concerned about how ineffective Kyoto will be (as, frankly, they should be), they would be agitating for more action rather than shrugging their shoulders...
again this basically just shifts the work to someone else

what was the point of that article?

Buddy's just rationalizing away his consumption, because deep down inside buddy knows he's a good person.

But really buddy is a glutton. Gorging himself on the world's energy to become more bloated than everyone else for his ego. Then smiling at himself in the rear view mirror of his audi as he drives by all the homeless people and wonders why they're so poor. (Hint: it might have something to do with the fact that you are eating the whole cake moron.)

My advice to buddy is that he should train his offspring to injest all his and company's waste. Thereby evolving a race of humans that is superbly adapted to living in the world he is creating. They really won't have to worry about people like me because in reality we're dropping like flies. However, they'd better be ready for other consumers, and of course how to survive in the oceans of waste.)

One barely category 1 hurricane in 10 years hits the gulf. As far as I know poverty and world hunger is on a downward trend. Any link between refugees and climate is tenuous at best and un-quantifiable at worst. Zika is another virus panic like SARS, H1N1, Avian Flu and West Nile or any of the other million and one defunct pandemic scares that fizzled like a firecracker in a puddle of drunken piss. Yes my "safe space" seems pretty comfy.