Is consciousness reducible to psychological/neurological concepts/processes or does it require more fundamental ones?

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life is absurd man

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this is what i end up saying over and over every time im on psychedelics

The field its in such a bad state that you had to call it the real neuroscience.

Conciousness, its one of the last reactions to an stimuli, most of the brain its a sensory input decoder.

Creativity derives from the layers of stimuli.

I realized that in animal intelligence studies, the smartest animals are often the ones with more advanced sensory receptors, pigs are considered smarter because of their advanced sense of smell, jumping spiders can outsmart other spiders, with a more advanced visual perception.

The better info you get, the smartest choices you can make.

I assume that it works the same on human consciousness.

consciousness is separate from intelligence. one could still argue that atoms receive sensory input and react accordingly- they just have fewer options since they have fewer possible initial conditions. both brains and atoms react according to input just on different scales of complexity

there is no such thing as "conciousness"

I agree, if consciousness can be simplified to stimuli then we'd have to define what differentiates stimuli from simple actions and reactions, otherwise it could be said that all matter is conscious.

I propose that no one can know that anything is conscious other than one's self. I think therefore I am, but I don't know if a person I'm talking to is thinking, I can only observe that they appear to be thinking. Like you assume that another person is in pain when they act in a way similar to how you act when in pain, but you can't actually feel the pain that they feel. In that same way no matter how much you can observe about brain activity such, there is no way for you to see what someone sees, feel what they feel, or think their thoughts.
By extension of this, even when AI progresses to the point of acting exactly like a human, we still can't know if it's conscious. We can ask it what it feels and thinks, and it might respond appropriately, but we can't actually know if it's really thinking or feeling, we can only speculate.

yes there is. you're experiencing it right now. it's the most immediate thing any of us are aware of.

Lets do that then.

Consciousness as in the specific reaction by a non specific stimuli, if you can get the same reactions from different stimuli, inside a certain range, you are conscious, its not action reaction cause differents actions generate the same reaction.

Basically generalization, as the basic principle of conciousness.

>By this definition it seems that even atoms, quarks, photons, etc have an amount of consciousness (the atom must be aware and perceiving of another atom for it to react at all).
Stopped reading here.

This makes my cock hard

Gibberish.

Why?

Are cognitive processes always conscious? This would make computers conscious.

Why are you you? Why are you not Bob? You are you because you consciously experience life from the point of view of your body, but not from Bob's point of view. If there would be no consciousness, you would not be you and there would be no reason to ever say "me" and "I".

consciousness is not the reaction but the reception of stimuli.

that's an interesting theory, but I think the concept of non-specific stimuli is still vague
for example an object on a slider mechanism (can only move forward and backward) will appear to react the same from a force parallel to its plane of movement as it does to a slightly stronger force that hits it at a slight angle

Consciousness is one of the fundamental constituents of existence, together with spacetime and quantum randomness. You cannot imagine an existence without spacetime. You cannot imagine an existence without quantum randomness. You cannot imagine an existence without consciousness either. This makes it impossible to examine the nature of consciousness objectively since you literally can't think yourself outside of it. It is an essential and inherent given at any frame of existence.

it still seems possible to achieve an object conclusion about the nature of consciousness even if the conclusion is that it is fundamental. I think consciousness can be thought of logically without any concepts of physics or neurology.

your all fags, become an anarchist.

*ur

Not him but
>inside a certain range
Makes the while thing arbitrary/useless

I tend to accept the assertion that everything has a level of consciousness. It does not demean your existence, rather it solves the problem here which is essentially crippling.

Tldr if level if consciousness is defined by sophistication of input\reaction behavior, all things experience a level of it, and arbitrary things like "bbut what is life " collapse and are treated more like maths

Yes, but thats still a reaction to pressure, it will react completely different if its turn on fire.

The fact that it has that range of reaction, could be an indicative of concious design.

Our sensory inputs still have the same problem, if an stimuli goes below or above our mechanical range we cant discern it, we cant tell x rays from gamma rays.

Of course I can imagine existence without consciousness. Look at a patch of space in the night sky. No consciousness there. Go suck Chopra's dick moron.

if there was no one to experience the night sky, there would be no difference if it existed or not.

no, they mean that no perceiver can imagine existence without their own consciousness. so in order to see that patch of space in the sky you need YOUR consciousness.

psychedelics are literally satanic

I see consciousness as being a geometric phenomenon. It has to do with the management of limited resources. Any limited being is going to be governed essentially by the same rules.

No, there is clearly a difference between something existing and something not existing, Deepak. The world does not revolve around consciousness. Get off Veeky Forums if you are going to shitpost new age woo.

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Well I just did. There is no reason why the world couldn't without consciousness and in fact it did exist for billions of years without it.

exactly. Fundamentally all things operate via "mathematizing" they react (output) according to perceived motions and their own initial conditions (input) over a multidimensional space. Some things just have more limitations than others because they operate on smaller scales (atoms vs brains) but they still operate according to the same laws. So if consciousness is that raw perception then either all things are conscious or none are but the latter is absurd since our consciousness is the most immediate thing we're aware of

Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? Consciousness is clearly an emergent phenomenon, like life. Living things are made of things which are not themselves living. An atom is not alive and it is not conscious. Put down the bong and use your brain.

I do believe it is emergent but only over scale of complexity. However if quantum randomness is true then yes consciousness could be emergent from those nonconscious processes.
(I retired from the bong a while ago haha)

I actually believe that is the arbitrary range what make it different from a universal law.

Thats why its not action reaction, cause it makes disctintions, that are specific to the concious beign, conciousness has mechanical limits, we can only know what its inside our capacity.

The ability to make generalizations its specific in a vitalistic sense, atoms or rocks dont make generalizations, they react in a specific manner to an specific stimuli.

If we have to devise an experiment to determine if an animal its aware of an object.

You put the animal in the room alone with the object, and wait till the animal interacts with the object, if it scratches his ass its not beign aware of the object, but if it touches the object yell at it, avoid it or hump it, you can tell that he has a level of conciousness about it.

This depends of the sensory input, rocks dont have a sensory input and cant move by itself, therefore even if its aware of an object, we cant test if its concious about it.

This is all life o centric, but its as far as we can take it for now.

This is the secondary issue, from where it spawns, its a property of matter energy interactions, or a more complex process, with more variables.

>there is clearly a difference between something existing and something not existing
what is the difference then?

our definition of life has nothing to do with consciousness.

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One exists and the other does not. Moron.

Never said it did. I used life as an example of an emergent property. Are you incapable of understanding simple concepts?

How were the shrooms? The Beer? The LSD?
I'll show you something more worthwhile than weed.
I can show you how to steal and lie.
Trust me, it's all you need to get by.
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I'm so much easier, and I come in a 30 inch gauge.
Heroin's my name, I've been known to destroy lives.
Takings out actors, teenagers, fathers, and wives.
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Pretty soon you'll have a needle, looking for a vein to poke.
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But don't worry, cause I'll always be in the back of your mind.

youtube.com/watch?v=w_wmv8K6x1I

Fuck you

>Consciousness discussion.

Drugs are bad Mkay.

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Rip in peace.

Rip in peace this thread

youtube.com/watch?v=R1awrN9NOEY

I'm drowning in a pool of my own vomit
And wondering if this is now my end
I hate my world and wish that I could bomb it
Rebuild it right and start it all again

I fall asleep in a puddle of my tear drops
And I wake up with a salty, crusted face
Waiting for the day the earth finally stops
And a better world can then take its place

I wake up in a hole, I'm six feet under
Buried alive, but always dead inside
I give up as I roll over and plunder
And the people of this new world try to hide

youtube.com/watch?v=2GvOEaY8wgs