Is China going to become the new scientific hub of the world?

The best just go to the States desu.

>muh singularity

ethics are a meme anyway

>Is American innovation slowing down, and will it become very Chinese-centric in the future? What do you think?

Given that the overwhelming majority of pure science is government funded and pretty much the entire western world is deep in
>muh austerity,
in regards to federal budgets, yeah, China is going to be kicking ass. The current US Presidential contenders also seem largely unconcerned with this with Trump openly calling for an annual reduction in science spending across the board (while defense and entitlement programs are untouched) and nothing easily available on Hillary's funding plan (i.e. a quick google search returns nothing easily identifiable as a budget plan). Both openly talk about "how important" science is, but neither seems really willing to foot the bill for maintaining scientific dominance..

You don't need to believe in neckbeard rapture to realise that putting out consistent generation of 150+ IQ people will devastate the competition.

>they plagiarize a lot of research yes

Oh thank you sooo much. I had such a good belly laugh on that one. I have before asked for this board to be renamed /plagiarism n maths/

China probably could if they could fucking fix their questionable safety protocol issues involving their engineering projects.

Yes unfortunately, China is swiftly catching up to the West and the worst thing is that their system allows them to go further and surpass us in every way. They are the upcoming big players and WILL be the leaders in everything unless the west wakes up. It doesn't matter how shit their living conditions are, the rich people set the terms for everyone, and if they become the leaders, those same rich people that live off the worker-slaves will be setting the terms for everyone else. It's like American capitalism taken to the extreme minus the human rights and western culture, with even more indoctrinated citizens than Cold War Americans.

There's a new Cold War brewing, but this time the anti-Western flagship power has no internal conflict, is not concerned with human rights, ethics and development, and seems unstoppable in every front.

I don't know about you senpai, but I'm more a ends justify the means kinda guy.

That could be applied to many hypothetical scenarios. You have to specify what you mean in the context of my post.

>has no internal conflict,

kek

What are you referring to?

I am referring to a conflict between the ruling class of the Chinese and the working class. Their propaganda system along with their censorship and extremely poor working conditions (a means of keeping the workers unaware of alternatives, using them as robots) for the majority of the population ensures that the government has an iron grip on how unified the state is.

that's true, but I'm not a believer in improving our own brains, the idea of a sentient being being able to fathom and create a new being more intelligent than itself is like programming a robot to build an identical copy of itself with twice the processor speed

I didn't read a single innovative thing in this post.

I'm saying I don't like how pedantic some of the ethic committees can be, and the political policy adopted by some parts of the West. In which the public (religious views, anti-vaxxers, or other weird anti-scientific cults) which are restrictive of scientific progress are listened to, and influence policy in regards to science. In reality, they should be ignored completely. The West listens to minority groups far too much, and this is why it's crumbling in more ways that one. Listening to people with views they have no right to hold will do that.

Anyway, I admire China for the fact they don't do shit like that and while their methods are questionable, subjectively unethical, authoritative this is a tried method of progress, and the end justifies the means.

Isn't the idea behind AI creating a being (computer) which has the capacity to surpass human intelligence, as opposed to having surpassed human intelligence upon creation. The whole idea is that the AI learns, but has resources which means that what it learns will surpass that which a human could hope to learn? Isn't that the case?

>IQ
Enjoy your pseudoscience, you might as well measure a population's capabilities via astrology.

Furthermore, any genetic components of intelligence are absolutely minimal compared to environmental (teaching). The entire reason humans are capable of so much is because we have the cognitive capacity to learn and transmit knowledge rather than just relying on instincts and behaviorism. This is why eugenics is almost always a fool's errand (one of many reasons).

TL;DR: Science capability will be determined by education, not bioengineering.

people are constantly going on strike in China and they're constantly having trouble with Uighurs in the northwest you just don't hear about it

Chinese workers aren't some mindless mob of ant like drones the idea that the PRC is some 100% efficient harmonious technocratic fascist state is mostly bullshit

>>Is China going to become the new scientific hub of the world?
Why? Because the world allows them to snoop into your belonging before you even reach a hotel. Copyrights are useless in that part of the world.

But the good news is that everything they touch is a knock-offs. And they're so corrupt that half of their scientific research are scams.

Hong Kong is also a hotbed of anti-government sentiment since they had nearly a hundred years of western rule before reunification. The current government is being way too heavy handed with them. They've been smart enough to not fuck with free trade but they keep doing oppressive cultural crap.

Things as simple as renaming everything in Mandarin (The official language of the country) and getting rid of Cantonese (the majority in HK) is poking the hornet's nest.

>The West listens to minority groups far too much, and this is why it's crumbling in more ways that one. Listening to people with views they have no right to hold will do that.

You do know the scientific community was once one of those said minority groups in the west right?

Ah, yeah, I get you. I can understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree that the West should ditch certain aspects of freedom of speech just to advance faster, at least in normal times. When we're in a race for survival, sure, desperate times require desperate measures, but in peaceful times every minority should have the right to be heard. Whether people will take them seriously is wildly different.

The best way to counter these views is to educate people further. I feel like Europe places more importance in mandatory or accessible education than the US, which is critical in preventing such idiotic "scientific" views like you described. We don't have to ban their right to express themselves just to make them disappear, that would only generate further distrust and dissatisfaction towards the government. I say that, because once you enter this type of thinking of expunging views that you deem useless, it's a slippery slope that can be abused by authoritarian rulers, and it becomes more acceptable in the eyes of the people. That would truly be our undoing.

It's true about the barrier between the West and China regarding the news, but that just reinforces their regime. No recognition = no external support. Which means all dissent will be put under control eventually. Despite their problems, they still advance alarmingly fast, and nothing seems to be changing.

It still is. Regardless like I said "listening to people with views they have no right to hold", in respect to the scientific community, they have a right to hold those views. In holding those views they have actually created tangible and worthwhile results for everyone. What exactly have anti-vaxxers or religious groups contributed to society? That is beyond their circlejerking echochambers and saving muh children from autism who have likely inherited their parent's neurodevelopmental disorders anyway.

A group should be listened to on the merit of contributions to the whole of society, there's really no point designating societal resources (government) in listening to conspiracy theorists, or anti-vaxxers.

In either case, the scientific community was originally persecuted and look at it now. I'm not exactly sure what you meant by your statement, but I think I addressed what you were insinuating.

tldr: a group shouldn't be considered seriously if it has nothing to offer>

>8372962
Yeah, I know the pitfalls with this line of reasoning. I just have lost a lot of faith with traditional democracy, especially looking at the United States currently. There already exists restrictions on free speech anyway, so I'm not entirely sure when the slippery slope comes into play, the West has been enforcing "political correctness" and hate speech laws for a while. How is this no different? In the end all its done is made racism a lot more subtle and silent, and far more difficult to address. I'm not sure how the States is even as ignorant as they are in terms of science anyway. Also, as you said education is an effective method to conform a population. That road goes both ways.

I think that covers everything.

God, I hope their lung cancer treatment with genetic engineering will be a success.

>There already exists restrictions on free speech anyway, so I'm not entirely sure when the slippery slope comes into play, the West has been enforcing "political correctness" and hate speech laws for a while.
That's because hate speech had a very negative influence on society considering WW2, and commonplace racism only serves to create more divide and unhappiness to the people subjected to it. The majority of the population, whether subjects of racism or not, do not want that. I'm not agreeing with the soft ban on hate and racist speech, I'm just explaining why it is not allowed and why the ruling class doesn't want it. Anti-vaxxers and other conspiracy theorists in comparison have... miniscule influence on society as a whole. Most people just ignore them, and they have no hold over the lawmakers. They don't pose as much of a "threat" to the well-being of a society.

>Also, as you said education is an effective method to conform a population. That road goes both ways.
What do you mean by this? Please elaborate.

Oh I'm just saying education is a tool and can be used for nationalistic indoctrination or for genuinely raising the self-awareness of a population. It's the best method for either case, or in other words the road goes both ways.

True enough. Thing is, unless you're in China and have no exposure to the outside world, most of the propaganda you could have been fed under a nationalistic regime could be disproved just by accessing Western sources, from actual historians, information that hasn't been tampered with. It's one of the reasons why there's always a "brain drain" occurring from anti-Western powers to the West throughout history. Those that are educated and eventually learn to think for themselves will be able to shrug off the indoctrination, so 9 times out of 10, education is always a positive thing to have if you're shooting for a more capable and freely thinking society.

The US isn't actively encouraging a more aware and critically thinking society, because it isn't in the interest of the rulers, unless they positively need the raw intellectual manpower for a given objective, i.e. Space Race. Really makes you think.

With the constant supply of skilled immigrants the US has never really needed to "actively [encourage] a more aware and critically thinking society." I mean a lot of the projects during, and after World War 2 were spearheaded by foreign nationals.

>"unless they positively need the raw intellectual manpower for a given objective"
Yeah, conflict breeds progress. We really need some international rivalry for something non-violent like we with the Space Race, beyond sports. If countries treated science like they treat sports, oh boy.

>building its second space station
China has never built a true space station. The first one is already heavily delayed before it even gets off the ground. They aren't even Soviet Union 1960s-tier.

>Science capability will be determined by education, not bioengineering
Why do kids in DC schools do so poorly, despite having the highest per capita spending of any public school system in the country?

nice politically correct narrative you've got there buddy

High funding != high quality if deans take all the money for themselves.

>Miss use of PC
kys.

>implying researchers at such projects would be treated the same as the peasants
They would be treated as the elite. Thank communism for finally recognising those being more equal than others.

>They would be treated as the elite.
Sort of like US defectors to the USSR.
(note: they were treated like crap)

Ironically it ish precisely the communists who are better at capitalism than the capitalists themselves.

>Thank communism
Do we really have to go through the same >China >Communist crap like in that other poverty thread?

>Is China going to become the new scientific hub of the world?
Of course
They are going to the moon to get He3 and build fusion reactors.
They don't have to worry about an Oil / Coal / Natural Gas lobby shutting down their Lunar ambitions.

if china actually builds a giant collider, not just a sewer filled with LEDs to fake it, they are the ones most likely to fuck it up and destroy a part of the world, or produce a stranglet or lower step in the false vacuum to destroy all of existance

Dude, Auger observed a fucking 50 EeV proton, you can be pretty sure that no accelerator that will be built in the next hundred years will produce anything threatening.

They've already set the stage for this to happen. The Chinese government invest more in its infrastructure than the US does. The Chinese space program is not dependent upon tired whims of Congress. Biology researchers in China can study freely without having their hands tied by the influence of Bible Belt flatearthers. Chinese culture values education and focus more than Western cultures particularly American ones do.

Give them 5 years, max.

China has the same life expectancy as the world on average, what do you think?

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Danish television made a series last year about comparing a Danish and a Chinese class to each other, seeing who were the best.
Only thing I remember was when they asked a bullshit question about geography.
>were in china is this city located?
>dunno lol
>where in yuropoor is this capitol located?
>uuuh

...

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What do those mean?

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It's the west which makes this a zero-sum game, because the west is diminishing itself by focussing wasted energy on suppressing the east where the east just does what it wants. In the end, we all profit from advances in knowledge and technology, and we should share knowledge.

One striking example of increased knowledge it the opening of Chinese paleontology to the west in the 90s. This rewrote the books with the incredible wealth of feathered dinosaur fossils and amazing beds of precambrian deposits.

China legalised human genetic experimental and alteration.
It's not a question of if, but when.
As soon as the chink get their hands on a set of genes for reliably making geniuses, expect them to produce them by the literal millions.
And once that generation of geniuses comes of age, without a doubt with their learning stage closely doctored by the government itself, it's game over.

The west's only hope is muh singularity tbf
But destroying our genepool with third-world filth and reducing the average IQ into the sewers seems a lot more important to our dear elites.

Whatever, anyone worth his salt will switch to China.
The west don't deserve to survive, between falling for the jews and self-genociding, it only evokes disgust.

>because the west is diminishing itself by focussing wasted energy on suppressing the east where the east just does what it wants.
I wonder how much money the west in general wastes on this shit, if they didn't waste money and actually shared knowledge we would've a decent grasp on genetic engineering in 2 years tops

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Anyone ever use Chinese steel? As a rule at my company, we do not purchase any material produced by the Chinese. Their relaxed sense of ethics prevents them from strictly conforming to specifications or established industry practice. For example, Western steel mills have, for almost 50 years, produced carbon steel with 4Mn to Cr ratio to prevent brittle fracture at low temperatures. This is actually above and beyond ASTM/ASME material requirements, but failures from half a century ago have shown that it is obviously necessary. This doesn't apply to the Chinese though, their philosophy is "fuck it, and fuck anyone thats not me". That attitude doesn't exactly instill fear in me. When the living standards increase and people start dying from engineering failures over there, it will become a huge problem for them.

Only non-confidential source I could easily find bellow. This is typical of many Chinese materials, and also common are deviations in physical dimension from specs/established norms.
weldbend.com/manganese-carbon-ratio-letter.pdf

Actually you don't need the best. You just allow for casualties and poor work conditions until you decide to copy CERN/DOE further.

>Is China going to become the new scientific hub of the world?

Never. The Chinese lie/cheat so effortlessly its almost an art form for them. It's why so many Chinese student come to the west for degrees. Chinese university degrees are pretty much worthless because of the rampant cheating.

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China can't do science because all their equipment is made in China and doesn't work

>applications

It's the eternal Anglo as always.

My company refuses to use Chinese steel as well. We lose half the shit we make with it when we run it through QA, so we just don't get it anymore.

This. The only obstacle really is the language gap, and technology seems to be close to solving that. Probably be some chink who invents the universal translator.

This thread is full of simplistic insults and crass lowbrow humor about chinese quality and so. Is this really all your simple brains can muster?

>how do you know you've beaten an anglo?

He retreats to racial slurs and biased statistics made by their own kind.

>minimal compared to environmental

What a meme friend

>ignores the fact that most of what's been said is true and instead resorts to insults and character attacking

You really showed 'em, kid

Americans always get hysterical when anyone mentions Chinese progress and scream they will totally collapse any day now.

China is still developing and yet it is making huge leaps in research and development. Posting images about how china "scores" lower than anglos in a biased test won't change reality. You scared about the future?

China had lead the world for 2000 years and never brought war to the world but instead spread civilization and technology---for example gunpowder (Gunpowder was used in China as far back as the 11th century) Chinese used it as fireworks to celebrate peace and prosperity. But when gunpowder came to western europe, they used it to kill people all around the world. China will protect the world from anglo domination

no
all the scientists will choke and die before they can finish doing anything

Joke's on you they will have the cure to lung cancer soon

This is an hilarious post. Thanks for making my day.

This is an hilarious post. Thanks for making my day.

kek jokes you on you, I will bring a facemask.