>How can I better identify something as NS? I'm led to believe that it's an attempt to separate itself to postmodernism, and that it takes a stance against irony. It attempts to restore purity.
>Can you list some New Sincerity works outside of literature? I saw Little Man Tate recently and it feels like it would be an example of NS. Maybe Fried Green Tomatoes? James and the Giant Peach (the movie)?
>Is it still around? Or has the chaos of the Zeroes and New Tens made us realize that we need genuine postmodernism now more than ever?
"New Sincerity" isn't a thing. Like most of the things Dave talked about, it was just a lot of hot air.
Juan Jones
what was wrong with the old sincerity? wasn't sincere enough?
Nolan Morgan
it had too much of the big bad irony in it, and that makes hip twentysomethings feel bad about themselves, so now we have to be sincere in the new way
John Brooks
'new sincerity' is a fucking meaningless buzzword.
Brayden Harris
bro it sounds like you need some new sincerity in your life
check out zadie smith and chimamanda ngozi adichie, its good for your feelings
Hunter Hall
...
Camden Powell
this picture actually make me so nauseous
Ayden Morris
Does anyone have the picture of DFW wearing the Phantom Menace shirt?
Ian Sanders
lol i've seen it
would wearing a t-shirt of (at the the time) the worst Star Wars movie be ironic or sincere?
Colton Wood
This basically.
I actually like DFW's writing, but his ideas themselves tend to be ridiculous.
Adrian Sanchez
could have used some actual new sincerity music like Daniel Johnston, Joanna Newsom, Neutral Milk Hotel
Jace Miller
none of those are new sincerity music
Justin Fisher
Wallace was not NS. He just helped developed another layer of irony, that involved tricking people into believing that sincerity might actually exist. All you have to do to realize this is: 1. Read This is Water 2. Read Good Old Neon 3. Read This is Water again
Jeremiah Brown
I once knew a guy who was super into DFW and considered himself a member of some kind of New Sincerity movement. He and his friends all thought like this, and all it amounted to was a apologia for their interest in YA, cartoons, LARPing and similar escapist activities for children, in the "spirit of childlike wonder". It was also accompanied with a sort of naive cheery optimism that was mind-bendingly infuriating. It was as if they had decided that being sincere meant you had to be completely un-discerning and never use your critical faculties, because that must by default mean you were being fake or pretentious.
I have no idea if this is an isolated incident or lots of DFW lovers think like this, but it was enough to make me hate New Sincerity anyway.
Adam Carter
Please tell me this is a joke, dear fucking christ I have never heard something that horrifying. These kinds of misinterpretations must have been the reason why he ended himself
Christopher Walker
New sincerity doesn't exist. or its just too complicated for our brains anyway its best not to take advice from some guy who killed himself
Ayden Hernandez
I wish I was joking. It's for this reason I've always been confused by Veeky Forumss love of him because this place is by contrast very elitist and judgemental.
Aaron Gonzalez
DFW was discerning. A critique of numbing irony does not at all imply that one has to then enjoy tedious bullshit.
Ian Wright
he assigned escapist books to his lit class at Amherst (which, btw, is $42,000 a year tuition.. I'm guessing the class was 3 credit hours... you do the math how much kids paid to study that) like Stephen King, and he loved eating junk food and zoning out to TV. David Foster Wallace writes ugly books from philosophical contrivances about pedestrian grievances. Anyone who cares about aesthetics, art, or literature in general need not bother.
Liam Hernandez
Oops not Amherst* I meant Emerson.
Jonathan Kelly
I'm sure I'll get called a cunt for this but after watching that interview with him and seeing his top ten books I knew this guy was not for me. Won't ever read him. Never.
Gavin Phillips
I need to see this
Hudson Price
>new sincerity
Plebs, it's posteriormodernism.
And the reaction it will someday spawn will be called postremomodernism.
Then will come apopostremomodernism.
Then will come metapopostremomodernism
Then will come husterometapopostremomodernism.
And that will be the Day of Judgment, and yea there will be wailing and gnashing of bollocks.
Jacob Sanders
I too would like to know some New Sincerity works outside of literature, and I guess also non-DFW literary works too
Joshua Miller
DFW has an interview on top 10 books? I thought I saw them all
Daniel Rogers
The Comedy starring Tim heidecker
Samuel Reyes
Sufjan Stevens
Jack Sanchez
Sorry. I didn't write that well. It was an artical about his top ten books. If you google it you will find it.
Jeremiah Morgan
Yeah he sounds awful tbqh.
Ryan Kelly
What was you're conclusion. I think he'd just reached a different point where he thought actually choosing what to think about leads to more neurosis. But DESU the guy in GON (huh) had already "given himself away" to the idea of himself, and had failed to choose correctly in this regard. I don't think there's actually a contradiction here in Dave's Way What 2 Live Ur Live. I assume you've read IJ.
Also as far as I'm aware the new sincerity is something he kind of wondered about in E Unibus Pluram and not a literary movement he really fleshed out or advocated for elsewhere.
PlusI think DFW's writing has lead me to be honest with myself when I don't want to be and if anything has steered me away from doing dumb shit like this, not that I ever did. But you see what I mean.
Lincoln Perry
your*
James Russell
I think he did that cus his students were little upstarts who needed taking down a peg. Plus that seems a pretty 1 dimensional take on aesthetics.
Thomas Taylor
Lol infinite jest is pure a e s t h e t i c s. But really though
Blake Gray
Bolaño also ended up reading trite detective novels and Bergman watching superficial shows like Sex and the City. This doesn't say much about their work.
DFW would have written a brilliant book about modern internet culture, why did he have to kill himself ffs
Parker Hall
I'm not bothered that he liked shit (everyone does). It is the way he talked about it and tried to present himself. DFW in real life honestly came off as super ingenuine to me.
Easton Perez
I was trying to be honest with myself before I even heard about New Sincerity, and I think my life has improved since then. Always pretending to like things ironically and being cynical all the time made me numb. I think New Sincerity is something important, but I don't think it fits as a literary movement, it doesn't need to be 'a thing'.
Nolan Lopez
This is one of the things I don't connect with fans of DFW about-- "Always pretending to like things ironically," (cynical part... well losing cynicism can definitely be healthy). What does this phrase mean? I'm asking honestly, not trying to be a jerk, I kind of agree with that I find alot of the people in the New Sincerity movement ingenuine, dishonest, and insincere. Clarification for this "irony" might help. When I think of things I've pretended to like, I think of times when I've said "Yeah I like the Godfather II, it's great" so that I don't have to hear someone gasp "You've never seen the Godfather II?"
Dominic Flores
These are all questions you'll need to answer, if you'd like to both theorize and critique works which preach the New Sincerity.
Jaxon Brooks
Wait, people actually do this? There are actually people that don't enjoy things in a genuine way?
Dominic Miller
yes, all over the place. though with the replacement of hipsters with yuccies, less and less
Zachary Robinson
That sounds incredibly depressing.
Jonathan Allen
that looks fantastic if i didn't have to constantly show how much better i am to get people to pay me money i would definitely be into that i like it good job A1
Sebastian Anderson
>DFW was discerning He must have been very discerning to have seen any talent in his own work.
Benjamin Parker
>he assigned escapist books to his lit class Yeah but the point was to teach them to articulate the flaws in them.
Charles Cook
>Bergman watching superficial shows like Sex and the City >bergman warching tv3 b-but mein volkheim
Joseph Williams
Apparently young Americans literally live their lives doing and saying things they don't mean for the sake of being cool, and this this is a big problem over there.
For example, people over there wear band shirts for bands they hate. I once saw a colleague wear a Smiths shirt and complemented him on it, and he said in this phony "dude bro" tone something like, "Yeah dude, they're awesome," while giggling. When I asked him if he had any favourite songs he started singing There is a Light That Never Goes Out all exagerrated like he was making fun of it, all while giggling.
Jacob Fisher
The first season of sex and the city as actually pretty good.
James Davis
Daniel Johnston is just sincere without the New and the capital S.
Henry Ortiz
>Always pretending to like things ironically and being cynical all the time made me numb. How exactly do you like, say, a certain band or an album ironically? Do you listen to it together with friends and make fun of it, like some people watch shitty movies to laugh about them, or do you really listen to it on your own pretending to like albeit knowing you think it's terrible? If the latter, what exactly is/was your thought process while doing so?
Nathaniel Long
bump before i go to bed would appreciate a response
Hunter Morales
New sincerity is just another superficial meme. It's not even a big movement.
Just write what you enjoy, that's all. If you are enjoying the writing process that is all you can ask for.
Samuel James
Back in my day, hip twenty-somethings were accused of overindulging in irony
Blake Scott
Like things ironically is pretty much what said - it's like watching a shitty movie with your friends and making fun of it, even tho you trully enjoy that movie, but you don't want people to make fun of you because you like those sort of movies, you don't want people to think your taste is shitty. For me, in the end, it's all about social acceptance, to have your taste in books, music and movies validated by some standard, without ever really thinking about what you just watched, or read, or listened to (Veeky Forums in a nutshell). Yes, i like Haruki Murakami, yes, I like Paramore, and i know those things get a lot of shit from people, so i used to like them ironically, like "Oh yeah, veeeery original Mr. Haruki *tips fedora*", but now I think about the things I like, and I find the reasons why I like stuff. So now I can say i like things that are not liked by my peers without feeling ashamed, because I can show why those things are good and not be just another drone who goes through Veeky Forums like a zombie talking shit and creating memes, discarding things like they are inherently bad because i've been told so through the years by people who don't know shit and were also repeating other people who didn't know shit.
James Mitchell
Well that's good, user. I'm glad you're actually enjoying things now.
Christopher Williams
>and not be just another drone who goes through Veeky Forums like a zombie talking shit and creating memes, discarding things like they are inherently bad because i've been told so through the years by people who don't know shit and were also repeating other people who didn't know shit.
Glad you're being sincere, but desu you're still kind of an asshole with that "everyone who doesn't share my opinion is just pretending" attitude.
Christian Watson
Ah okay, so you didn't pretend to like things you didn't like for the sake of appearing ironic, edgy, funny or whatever, like the one Smiths guy described, but you pretended to not like things or rather to like them ironically although you actually wholeheartedly like them? This way it's not all that stupid as I imagined but it doesn't seem ironic to me - more like you were insecure and anxious
i didn't said people who doesn't share my opinion is pretending, i just said a lot of people who lurks Veeky Forums tends to follow what Veeky Forums says it's good without ever really thinking why those things are considered good or even if they actually like these stuff. I don't think you should like the same books i like, if you think Murakami is shitty, then fine, but try to rationalize why you find his books bad, because we all know that most people who criticize his work here have never actually read him. But hey, if you've read him and formed your opinion on why is it bad or good, then it's okay.
Oh yeah, this used to happen too, but in a smaller scale. In Brazil we have a lot of music genres that are, in general opinion, considered bad. Usually those genres are appreciated by people from the lower class (youtube.com/watch?v=M3_405oMg3s example), but people from middle class and uper class tend to listen to these stuff ironically, and that's very common. I used to do this, but in those cases without real appreciation behind my ilayers of irony.
Daniel Adams
how can I tell if an author is being generally sincere or just mocking sincerity
Nicholas Campbell
And I didn't revised before posting, so it's pretty badly written, i'm sorry for that
William Lewis
what the fuck am i watching?
Alexander Thomas
hollow first world westerners struggling for sense and direction. fascism, supremacism, consumism and appeal to emotion and other intoxicant ideologies thrive in times defined by such struggles. in the end, ironic or not, all is shit, to be eaten and shat, endlessly, till the world is no more.
Luke Sanchez
Good one. No, seriously. You made me laugh.
William Torres
No it wasn't, and even if you were right, I would be furious if that's what my private school college tuition was going towards. What about liking something like Piranha 3d, Birdemic, or The Room then? People clearly like it ironically but get genuinely laughs and enjoyment from it. Just trying to get the difference here, or why this is important enough for an entire literary movement to tackle. Does this attitude apply on a larger, unhealthier scale? I mean a whole literary movement dedicated to irony and television addiction seems almost forced. Are we still under the shadow of Pynchon and DeLillo because they write about capital, terrorism, destiny, and approach technology and the post-war world with a much broader and less decisive view?
Michael Myers
>No it wasn't, Yes it was.
Christian Campbell
where did that get them
Jeremiah Thomas
I never said it was important enough for an entire literary movement to tackle, actually i said I took this "new sincerity" thing before i knew it even existed. It's just something i think improved my life in many ways.
Doesn't contradict what I said. >While you're at it, quit blindly shaping someone into your own ideal The ironing.
Julian Parker
People don't like the room ironically, they like it because it's shamelessly sincere, liking it ironically would entail a reaction like
Tyler Allen
Jesus. With those reading comprehension skills, you wouldn't have even gotten into a mid-tier school like Emerson to study James Patterson with the Walrus himself.
Cameron Adams
Jesus
Nicholas Sanchez
Is pic related new sincerity?
My gut is telling me yes desu senpai.
Adam Morales
though it has a bad reputation by how tumblr SJWs have used it, I think this won't disappoint you if youre looking for instances of NS. From what I understand it embodies NS because of its large adult fanbase and themes which don't align with anti-emotional western masculinity. However I am still a little fuzzy on what NS means in the first place. Everytime a discussion about NS is brought up on this board no one really addresses exactly what it is. All i know from reading these posts is that is has something to do with irony.
Adam Fisher
OP, NS means National Socialism.
Easton Powell
I feel like yes. Maybe not intentionally so but watching it gave me some of the feelings you guys have been talking about NS in this thread
Anthony Ortiz
Bolaño did it because he was sick and angered with classic literature forms as a meaning to legitimate writing, he also read (stealing them from big bookstores) pornography books... Read "Entre paréntesis" user, it will give you a better understanding on his ground for writing.
Christian Ward
wtf i hate fascism now
Daniel Turner
wat
Adrian Carter
new sincerity is sincerity for the sake of not being ironic, unlike sincerity, which is just honesty shared between people.
New sincerity is the final layer of irony. It is an ironic imitation of sincerity, not because it wants to be sincere, but because it doesn't want to be ironic(insincere).
it's like the hipsters that do things to be contrarians.
sincerity >I like these shoes(subject to criticism which hurts the feels) irony >I like these shoes because they have that dorky 90's vibe and I want to look ~vaporwave~(distances the wearer from the shoes, safe from criticism about shoes and can safely hide within the ~vaporwave~ culture) new sincerity >I LIKE THESE SHOES AND I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK *girl takes a selfie in the shoes. armpit hair is somehow visible* (subject to criticism, but welcomes criticism because it validates the person's identity and how they're unique and an individual. you go girl, keep those haters fed.)
I hope thats thorough enough
Dominic Torres
What's post-sincerity gonna be like?
Anthony Barnes
New sincerity is post-sincerity
Easton Clark
Okay but what about post new sincerity then?
Asher Evans
Post New Sincerity is when the West collapses all over again and we revert back to feudalism and religion.
Elijah Richardson
I don't fuckin know there aren't that many dimensions to just fuckin liking something
Liam Peterson
You could like everything an equal amount.
Jordan Jones
It's called neo-irony
Jackson Turner
What's it like?
Eli Turner
>S U C C >U C C S >C C S U >C S U C
Robert Wilson
OP here
Ohh I never even thought of Steven Universe as a new sincerity thing. I've seen it I like it I can definitely see it. Good example user.
New Sincerity is a form of Nazism I guess
That's the answer I've been looking for
Ryan Cox
What would DFW think of Veeky Forums?
Gavin Barnes
>Can you list some New Sincerity works outside of literature?