Why where the Greeks so gay?

no condoms

That's jut Plato's retarded fanboy reasoning for why Socrates didn't buttfuck him. He also likes to pretend at every opportunity that Socrates never tapped Alcibiades ass, which we all know is bullshit. *Anyone* would dream of Alcibiades' boipussy and he followed Socrates around in permanent lordosis. Socrates' wife even knew what's up. Plato betabitchorbiter, which is why he spent so long making sure his nickname of totally ripped lived on and Socrates stayed pure. I bet he was a fucking manlet.

Even though that dialogue deals mostly with pedophilia, it also should demonstrate to all the Christ-fags and Lit-fags on this board that the Greeks weren't just wokring with metaphors for friendship

"Very different was the reward of the true love of Achilles towards his lover Patroclus-his lover and not his love (the notion that Patroclus was the beloved one is a foolish error into which Aeschylus has fallen, for Achilles was surely the fairer of the two, fairer also than all the other heroes; and, as Homer informs us, he was still beardless, and younger far)."

"Socrates turned to Agathon and said: I must ask you to protect me, Agathon; for the passion of this man has grown quite a serious matter to me. Since I became his admirer I have never been allowed to speak to any other fair one, or so much as to look at them. If I do, he goes wild with envy and jealousy, and not only abuses me but can hardly keep his hands off me, and at this moment he may do me some harm."

Grant this user and this user are absolutely correct in that Plato wasn't a big fan of butt-sex or pederasty as his Socrates charatcer once again tries to break love down to its base components and then hold them up to a higher standard, then try and realise how they interact holisitcally (and love seems to do pretty poorly considering Diotima's interpretation)

Granted it might also be another example of Plato either
A) Keeping his cards close to his chest and not really telling us what he personally thinks, but rather having the air-headed Socrates present a new perspective (this dialogue in particular illuminates his separation from normal people considering he barely sleeps, eats, drinks and fucks and would rather stand in one place all nigh thinking to himself) or
B) This is another dialogue that shows Plato is borderline autistic. The passions and emotions of human relations are scary and confusing, and he suggests we should instead try and alter them so that they conform to some kind of obsessive search for reason or help us produce knowledge. Not that I don't necessarily disagree with his conclusions with this dialogue, but when Socrates steps there is certainly a level of "eww, icky" going.

It literally wasn't gay though, at least not in the modern sense. When the ancient Greeks had "gay sex" it was implicitly straight.

In what sense though? They experienced love for their fellow males and also sexual attraction. How is that different from normal sex?

brojobs, there's nothing gay about admiring the male form.

dude check out charmides, its like smutt

>Its not gay if its a feminine penis

You need help.

>implying it's feminine
I said the male form user

Greeks would have loved traps with all their being

For them it probably didn't matter at all. So yes, it is different from our concept of sex in that non one gave a fuck, but they still had preferences.

The Sacred Band was comprised of pairs of lovers who actually loved one another in the emotional sense, it wasn't just a bunch of dudes fucking each other.

Not at all, femininity is a hinder in the trap.
>tfw never gonna brojob your ripped friend philosopher
why live

you wouldn't get to brojob him. intracural sex was a-okay, buttsex was kinda bad if it made you act faggy after bottoming, but oral is a strict no-no, go hire a hooker on its last legs territory. it infects your oratory. a good friend would just buttsex you and never tell anyone cuz he loves you.

I was imagining more of a handjob than a full on sucking

Yeah, and I'm Maria Teresa of Austria-Hungary

well, yeah, facials are fine, just don't make mouth contact

It just wasn't gay. You're entire lens on this situation is completely modern and simply did not exist back then.

It was just two dudes fucking and then impregnating their wives later. Not gay unless you think its gay.

Well frottage is the only part of gay sex that is appealing to me anyway

I'm straight too. Trust me, I checked.

model citizen dubs. nice, checked.

The Symposium deals with both erotic and spiritual love, with an emphasis on the latter, what the hell are you talking about?

>You're entire lens on this situation is completely modern and simply did not exist back then
But i'm not, your the one rejecting this lens and then failing to show how its just "two dudes fucking".

It was how the Greeks initiated young men into the culture. It's not exclusive to the Greeks either, in Papua New Guinea there's a tribe where the adult men take all of the boys at pubescence up to a shack in the hills and have them perform oral sex on the adults in order to gain the mana of their semen.

The same culture believes that women who want too much sex are witches trying to drain men of their mana for black magic.

Spiritual love between men wasn't gay back then

we need to tell /r9k/

Well yeah, the distinction didn't exist but that doesn't mean it wasn't for all intents and purposes gay

>many patrician keks, old sport.

they discovered that the same good feeling you get when you poop can be recreated when you stick a wiener in your butt, its the highest form of philosophy and enlightened thinking, which is why you should always start with the greeks

The most keks so far

> fathers of Western civilization were the gayest fucks on the planet
the more things change the more things stay the same

lol

Sexuality is a social construction, don't get memed son.

Sexual orientation is a modern concept, it doesn't express accurately at all how the ancient greeks thought. It was deemed normal to have romantic relations with women and boys, but sodomy was regarded as degrading, and might have been reserved for slaves, prostitutes and the common practice of humiliating those defeated in war, although I think it might have been more common in the context of pederasty than their writings imply, just like lots of behaviors that our society frowns upon and makes illegal are pretty common anyway, like drugs. Plato references the eleusinian mysteries regularly, but never discusses the psychoactive brews they probably consumed. It's important to remember pretty much all ancient writings come from and relate to the aristocracy.

Who knew Plato was so based?

I don't think its a coincidence that there pederasty in Afghanistan considering the ancient Greeks conquered the know world back with Alexander, went all the way to Bactria.

Butt sexz is best sexz

Sacred band was still young and old pairings.

Why do you think we start with the Greeks?

Honestly if you want to get a closer look at their sexuality look at comedies. Aristophanes is forever making jokes about his characters getting arse fucked and you don't joke about something so often if it's only on the fringes of society, there's also loads of erotic vases with same sex stuff and loads of pots with stuff like 'Memnon is so secksy' written on the side.
Really people look through an extremely conservative lens at these people, if you read Xenophon (and Sappho for that matter) there's also lots of same-sex love.