Wtf I hate myself now

just don't be a dipshit and you'll be fine

>far more optimistic than anyone else in the book (besides arguably stanley
Wow, he dIED, fucking optimistic as heck

Also, Wyatt is fucking insane by the end, not "authentic". He embraces a Faustian, parodically Satanic form of Christianity, an inversion of Christianity that hints, chiasmatically, at the Black Mass jokingly alluded to in the beginning of the story. His philosophy is that of sinning and immersing oneself in materiality precisely so one can redeem oneself out of it, IIRC --- a heresy Gaddis no doubt knew was a popular historical heresy of certain strange, licentious Christian cults.

Wyatt = unredeemed Faust, the ultimate symbol of jaded modern man set free from his moorings, a murderer, adulterer (although so's his wife, so there's that), someone who runs away from his wife and all the people he knows to potter around in Spain.

He doesn't even have a name by the end, that's how alienated he is from everyone and everything.

Overall, though, the book is not so pessimistic as I make it sound, but rather a dark comedy and a venting of bile against the modern world (or as it was in Gaddis's time). This unredemption of Wyatt furthers the bitter humor of it, as opposed to the sentimentality of , which (he judged correctly) probably would have been too sappy and dishonest to work.

It's a great fucking work, honestly, I'm very passionate about it and upset that it's not and maybe never will be recognized as a classic of American literature the same way, say, Gravity's Rainbow (which takes a lot from it in prose style, tone, dark humor, allusiveness) already is.

I also don't mean to sound so angry at you, BTW, this is just how I usually sound on Veeky Forums.

He does have a name at the end. After leaving mr. "Yak"/Sinisterra he just keeps the Stephan name from his fake passport.

idk i just had a more optimistic view of it than you

maybe i didnt make it clear but i fully acknowledge it's a very pessimistic ending, but it's the possibility of something optimistic that i think gives it more power.

indeed, regarding

>He doesn't even have a name by the end, that's how alienated he is from everyone and everything.

he loses his name but he gets a new one, one that is essentially what this mother originally intended to name him. to me that's a sign that there is, in spite of everything, hope for "redemption" in a sense. again it's not redemption - we don't actually knwo what happens to wyatt after the monastery, but we can possibly envision a future where he does get a chance at it. i think that's more powerful than unrelenting condemnation, nor does it, i think, take away anything from the takedown of modern life.

i loved the book too senpai.

>Wow, he dIED, fucking optimistic as heck

idk it's a difficult reading and i can see multiple interpretations. but i think to fixate on the physical death alone is too limited.

I always interpreted Wyatt as something more ascetic than corrupted. He's definitely unredeemed, as is everyone, but his retirement from the world isn't alienation so much as it is solitude. He's trying to scrape the canvas clean and deny the awful reflexivity of the world. Ironically the best way to conquer the self is to isolate it and trap it within in order to stifle it

I remembered the Stephan (which IIRC is transformed into Stephen by the end), but didn't think of it in the way you guys thought of it. Where does it say his mother originally intended to name him that? I don't remember it, honestly. You may very well be right, honestly, and if not that there's always a margin of interpretation for every reader, I can't take away whatever impression Gaddis gave to you, now can I?

Stanley's death (do spoilers even work anymore on Veeky Forums?) I initially was very moved by but thinking critically on it I think it's more dark humor, especially the point about how his work is seldom spoken of, although when it is, it's spoken of with high regard (which is pretty prophetic of the novel itself, obviously). Stanley's a great, innocent, naive person and what happens to him? He gets crushed by the modern world and no one really even cares about him after it, although he does have his own private, quiet redemption with himself that the reader can privately share in too, I suppose. The personal redemption of the artist, where the artist is battling with and proving everything to only themselves, if that's not too sappy and sentimental-sounding.

Sounds very Gaddisian, good post.

Wait, Wyatt died? I don't remember this.

Stanley not watt

Oh, right.

Nothing makes me want to read a book more than reading/listening to other people discussing it and having no fucking idea what they're talking about desu

I just pulled it out of a box last night too

Bookmark this website:
williamgaddis.org/recognitions/I1anno1.shtml

That's cool thanks user

youtube.com/watch?v=gkT1QNA5Iwc&ab_channel=Totiusquotius

This was posted in another Gaddis thread, but more people should see it. It's Sheri Martinelli, who inspired Esme, talking about some of the work she did with Ezra Pound. Sometimes Esme parses out words very strangely, but it's Gaddis trying to match Sheri's speech patterns. She sounds pretty adorable.

Also the guy in the white sweater is Steven Moore, known for this website

Another bit of trivia involving her:

That letter Esme left Wyatt before her suicide attempt was an actual letter Gaddis got from Sheri Martinelli (though presumably under less dramatic circumstances).

what the fuck am i watching?

is this is what reading the recognitions is like?

Anselm was the dude that impregnated the 6 year old right?