Sappho

mine as well

>implying Lesbia was actually a lesbian.
>not reading Catullus....
>VIVAMVS.MEA.LESBIA.ATQVE.AMEMVS

>ΘΦ
Really? I see how you could pronounce the opposite, like "phth" as in "phthalo," but how is "thph" possibly a valid phonetic digraph?

>she was bisexual.
Citation needed.

Why were literally all the of the chucklefucks on and around the Greek peninsula gay as fuck?

>Most, Glenn W. (1995). "Reflecting Sappho". Bulletin of the Institute of Classical Studies. 40.
>Devereux, George (1970). The Nature of Sappho's Seizure in Fr. 31 LP as Evidence of Her Inversion. The Classical Quarterly. 20.
> Klinck, Anne L. (2005). “’Sleeping in the Bosom of a Tender Companion’: Homoerotic Attachments in Sappho” Journal of Homosexuality. 49.¾ :193-208.

So impure.

i have never experienced what it is like to be in love and i dont think i ever will. this precludes my understanding of 98% of poetry

Because there wasn't a weird Hebrew cult going around telling them they shouldn't.

Everyone in antiquity talks about how amazing her stuff is and all we have today are a few fragments. What are the chances of us finding more of her work?

Beautiful writing -- it's a shame we have so little left.

This isn't my field, but I have some optimism that the 21st century will yield new rediscoveries of classic works thought lost. I don't think it's likely we will find entirely new library sites, but new technical applications could enable us to reconstruct texts from currently illegible artifacts.

Stuff like this nature.com/news/x-rays-reveal-words-in-vesuvius-baked-scrolls-1.16763

We're still not likely to rediscover entire canons, but we may very well have extensive new quotes and fragments to work with someday in our lifetimes.

This is my favourite too. Which translation is that?

Richard Crowell. Reading over it again, that's actually not the translation I was exposed to when I first came across this poem. Whichever one I saw first was definitely better.

Nevermind, I've found it. I don't like that rhyming scheme but I like the no frills approach towards the vocabulary. Anyway, I barely understand half of her Aeolic so what do I know.

Who's your favourite Sappho translator, guys?

Yes, I was impressed to see how many translators had a go at her stuff. I remember a website that listed each of her fragments in lots of (or maybe all?) English translations--very useful.

She's a miracle. How could a woman have written such beatiful lesbian poetry in a patriarchal society like the greek's its still a mystery.

>one of my favorite
>the most famous one

Carson.

Sappho was not actually a homosexual or bisexual

there was a tongue-in-cheek quality to or rather tongue-in-something-else-maybe-you're-not-familiar-with

It's not a mystery at all; suppression condenses frustration into crystallized form; this jewel is the product of sublimation.

Anywhere people are held down their art pushes up.

*citation needed*

Textual analyses in particular my man, or else you're just going against the grain to be different.

She was smart and poetic. A man's head and a woman's heart. So beautiful.

Love is pretty good but highly overrated.

you clearly didnt understood my sentence

sapphic love is the female equivalent of platonic love and there are no references to her being a homosexual in antiquity
I can't prove that someone is not something, the analysis that claims to prove that she is genuinely homosexual is just mistaken

How many layers of irony are you on right now?

I took it as read.

Her poetry is directed towrads a female subject; early commentaries on her work from the Hellenistic period are oddly specific at denying an alledged rumour that she "really" shagged women; and yet her poems are gay as fuck.

Put two and two together and you get four.

There's no smoke without fire.

>what are smoke mushrooms

Made of elemental fire, qed

Aren't at least half her surviving works thought to be pseudepigrapha?

Because people in general are gay as fuck.

>I can't prove that someone is not something
You can. You can prove that nowhere does she display homosexual tendencies.

There are denials of her homosexuality which is as good as a positive claim. I do not understand the urge to ungay Sappho, especially when it requires such convoluted rereadings of her work.

Everyone is better under patriarchy

>I do not understand the urge to ungay Sappho
Because some people care more about facts than feels?

this

It was not taboo til the three biblical religions took over. People are super gay.

>people who disagree with me only do so because of weak feminine feels, not because of strong masculine RATIONAL FACTS
>>>/reddit/

>>>>/reddit/
The irony

Wanting to un-gay her is clearly to do with feels.

Her poetry is so gay.

>reddit is the mirror image of Veeky Forums so if Veeky Forums is redpilled that means reddit is SJW xD

there is to the contrary an urge to "gay" her
historically speaking the "gay" reading is the convoluted rereading, it's pure presentism

"People" have claimed every historical poet to be "so gay", including classical Islamic poets.

>it's pure presentism
>Lesbianism, to describe erotic relationships between women, had been documented in 1870.[8] In 1890, the term lesbian was used in a medical dictionary as an adjective to describe tribadism (as "lesbian love"). The terms lesbian, invert and homosexual were interchangeable with sapphist and sapphism around the turn of the 20th century.[8] The use of lesbian in medical literature became prominent; by 1925, the word was recorded as a noun to mean the female equivalent of a sodomite.
Very present.

I don't even know what you're saying, are you appealing to an etymological fallacy or do you think that an idea being applied to someone from the 7-6th century BC in the 19th century CE is not presentism?
either way you're dumb as shit

So how far back does something have to go to not be 'pure presentism'?

The Resurrection of Christ

Its another "homosexuality didn't exist until modernists injected it into the ancients because muh ideology" thread

Are you the same guy who argued that Achilles and Patroclus weren't gay?

Pure presentism.

They weren't.

>Its another "No user, You don't understand, Shakespeare was gay despite all the contradictory evidence" thread.

Next you're gonna say he wasn't a necrophile.

>another

Well shit, you better tell Plato that.

"But Orpheus, the son of Oeagrus, the harper, they sent empty away, and presented to him an apparition only of her whom he sought, but herself they would not give up, because he showed no spirit; he was only a harp-player, and did not-dare like Alcestis to die for love, but was contriving how he might enter hades alive; moreover, they afterwards caused him to suffer death at the hands of women, as the punishment of his cowardliness. Very different was the reward of the true love of Achilles towards his lover Patroclus-his lover and not his love (the notion that Patroclus was the beloved one is a foolish error into which Aeschylus has fallen, for Achilles was surely the fairer of the two, fairer also than all the other heroes; and, as Homer informs us, he was still beardless, and younger far). And greatly as the gods honour the virtue of love, still the return of love on the part of the beloved to the lover is more admired and valued and rewarded by them, for the lover is more divine; because he is inspired by God. Now Achilles was quite aware, for he had been told by his mother, that he might avoid death and return home, and live to a good old age, if he abstained from slaying Hector. Nevertheless he gave his life to revenge his friend, and dared to die, not only in his defence, but after he was dead Wherefore the gods honoured him even above Alcestis, and sent him to the Islands of the Blest. These are my reasons for affirming that Love is the eldest and noblest and mightiest of the gods; and the chiefest author and giver of virtue in life, and of happiness after death."

>they are literally arguing over who was the bottom
classics.mit.edu/Plato/symposium.html

The fuck are you talking about?

Gay sex wasn't gay in ancient times

Twelfth Night was gay

>tfw you will never dick Sappho-san
>because she's been dead for 2600 years
>not because she's gay
>she's not gay
>she loved cock
>she took fifty cocks a day
>she'd take my cock
>she was very ungay
>honest

>Quoting texts you don't understand out of context

You realize Plato was born 800 years after the earliest possible birth-date of Achilles right? He isn't speaking from observation but rather his individual opinion of their relationship, this ain't some weird Doctor who shit mang.

I understand the cunnilingus joke. I think you should reverse the characters though, so that it actually makes sense.

Yeah, that would be strange if there weren't poems by a female poet talking about physically trembling at the sight of another woman, or begging aphrodite to deliver her unto her.
The middle east is so gay that Candide gets stuck in a seraglio in the second part and the taliban had to quell boyfucking in afghanistan.

p sure it's analingus dude

Ah yes, the vertical slit anus. How could I forget.

That's so hot.

Depends almost entirely on what you love.

So? Doesn't mean people didn't have love for each other or didn't have sex? See Symposium where a man falls in love with Socrates and this poster.

So why are you right and he's wrong? Are you more patrician than Plato?

>including classical Islamic poets.
Out of every example you could have given.

Do you think Vergil was a pederast just because of the second Eclogue? You don't have to be gay to write about gay love, and you don't have to have sex with someone to love them.

>Her poems.

Anyone who doesn't love Sappho is a pleb. Might be a good definition of a pleb.

>what's probability

It's okay preganon, you can come back. We miss you.

>To my side: "And whom should Persuasion summon
Here, to soothe the sting of your passion this time?
Who is now abusing you, Sappho? Who is
Treating you cruelly?
Now she runs away, but she'll soon pursue you;
Gifts she now rejects--soon enough she'll give them;
Now she doesn't love you, but soon her heart will
Burn, though unwilling."
Come to me once more, and abate my torment;
Take the bitter care from my mind, and give me
All I long for; Lady, in all my battles
Fight as my comrade.

Im not sure why she is pleading with Aphrodite if it doesn't involve fucking the person they are talking about (in this case a woman).

>You don't have to be gay to write about gay love, and you don't have to have sex with someone to love them.
I wonder why these posters take offense at supposedly looking at the ancients through a modern lens when it comes to sexuality, but will do the same thing with pretty much everything else from pedophilia to war, family, tradition, virtue, politics etc. Its like homosexuality is the one thing that we are supposed to view in a sterile abstract and not attempt to draw parallels.

If there are Greeks that that loved, fucked and/or preferred people of one particular gender, how is this materially different from our modern understanding of sexuality? If it was a mix between any of these threes aspects, how is that different from the SJW's attempt to argue sexuality is complicated?

That's not to say that you could decisively conclude Sappho's sexuality based on the materials that we have of her but this protest is especially potent and specific and I never understood why.