Will i become some kind of orthodox if i read him?

will i become some kind of orthodox if i read him?
im kinda of a nihilist tbqh (not in the edgy way)

if you are exposed to truth, then you must recognize truth.

what if I read all nietzsche books next? when does the ride end?

you will be reading shakespeare without reading shakespeare

is that a good thing?

I read The Brothers Karamazov and half of Notes from Underground and it didn't make me a Christian.

But dont you kinda wish you were? But you just cant?

No, because I know I'm right and Christians are wrong. I like the aesthetic of Christianity but that's all.

no, but his books will kindle a the fire of meaning inside you

No, not really. He's very good reading if you are a Christian, but if you want to really be steeped in Orthodox, read a book like Laurus. Or the Way of the Pilgrim. Dostoevsky's work is more concerned with Orthodox Christianity surviving among the world, whereas those novels are concerned with how to cultivate the Orthodox Christian mindset and how it is completely foreign to the world.

You really can't know that you are right. A smart person only knows that they know nothing.

That's why I know I'm right : because I know that I don't know. Christians claim that they know but won't say how they know.

what if i know it all and i just dont know it yet?
would that make me smart or dumb?

christians dont claim they know they claim god knows and they just belive in him because of faith

No, they claim that there is life after death. That's a completely baseless claim. They claim that Jesus is the son of God. That's also baseless.

>im kinda of a nihilist tbqh
Do you have a spiteful sense of humour?

Make sure you never read Stirner or it will ruin him for you

"Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. Everything science has taught me, and continues to teach me, strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death."
-somebody much more based than you

>I know I know nothing
>I know
>I know nothing

Tolstoy detested the Orthodox tradition in Russia. I'd recommend his The Gospel in Brief - Wittgenstein said it kept him alive during the first world war.

So you want empirical proof?

Crime in Punishment is like a critique of Nietzsche made before Nietzsche ever wrote anything. I think it also inspired Nietzsche.

Don't do it! Everyone who reads Dostoevsky becomes Orthodox Christian. Nihilists are especially vulnerable.

>im kinda of a nihilist tbqh (not in the edgy way)
>(not in the edgy way)
What did he mean by this?

>listen to The Birthday Party Nick Cave a lot when I was younger
>edgy, anti-establishment "degenerate"-aesthetic music initially
>listen further and see trends moving towards more religious themes in Cave's music
>wonder how someone can make such a turn from atheist leanings towards borderline hymnal stuff
>read the Bible extensively in school and read a lot of Dostoevsky in my free time
>understand Nick Cave's music and beliefs more

That being said, I still don't believe in any of it, but I greatly appreciate it

I mean im a pretty normal boring guy

But the thing is that there's no reason to believe that spirits exist.

I want some reason to believe in afterlife before I believe in it. I'm not just going to make a baseless claim and act as if it's true.

>That being said, I still don't believe in any of it, but I greatly appreciate it

I feel this so much. I think I've been an atheist for too long to really convince myself of it.
I really do love it all so much though. I even go to church sometimes.

It still left a positive impact on my life because so often atheists become "fedora edge-lords" or whatever. I could have gone down that path and things could've been so much worse.

If you read Dostoevsky's major novels IN THE ORDER THEY WERE PUBLISHED, ending with The Brothers Karamazov, you will unlock Christian Faith and earn the title "Believer."

>more based
>blatant confirmation bias
Not sure you understand what based means

>will i become some kind of orthodox if i read him?


best type of christianity desu

There is a difference between having faith, and knowing, or even believing

Yeah, there is. Faith is an excuse for pretending like you know something.

smart
dumb
smart
dumb
dumb

If you don't believe things based on their factual value, then you're deluding yourself. If you don't believe in things based on their factual value, and you reject facts as being "outside of human knowledge", rejecting the sane and rational position of simply "not knowing", then you're unintelligent. There's only things we can know, and things we can't know, if something is true then you believe it, if something isn't true then you reject it as false. But you can't take something which isn't factually validified and say that it's your truth because you reject reason as being below human understanding, that's just intellectual laziness and that's why religion will never be intertwined with science, that's why the two things are mutually exclusive and science will always prevail over religion. This is why every single religious person on earth is a deluded moron and every single atheist on earth is on a higher level; atheists have critical thinking skills.

"Smart" user here, I'm not an atheist. I just don't like Christianity. Also, science and religion aren't opposed to each other, they can coexist within the same ideology. But Christianity is still wrong.

All religions are wrong. All of them reject rational judgment, and instead of saying something is either right or wrong, or suspending judgment until evidence is provided, it preys on the weak minded by telling them to reject rationality, simply so they'll feel better once they accept different realities, merely to avoid uncomfortable facts. This is exactly why people say religion is a crutch, I can't stress enough how irrational and silly it is. It makes me cringe, actually, it's like the biggest parade of pseudo intellectual hypocrisy that's ever happened on the face of planet earth. It shows our flaws more deeply than it ironically tries to accuse us of having, seeing as it's very existence is a flaw of our faulty rational mental faculties. Some of us though, such as myself, overcome this faulty thinking, and think critically.

I agree that all religions are wrong, but I disagree with your moral criticisms of them. There is no objective morality, so religions can't be immoral. Everything in existence has its purpose and that includes religion. It has a very large role in the course of events.

>There is no objective morality, so religions can't be immoral. Everything in existence has its purpose and that includes religion. It has a very large role in the course of events.
Your rational for why everything has a purpose is vague, and leaves me only wondering what you even mean. If you mean that there's some sort of natural order, and everything that is happening is merely evolution, I'd argue that your position is nihilistic and rejects morality altogether, because you say that nothing can be immoral because there is no objective morality. There is an objective morality, morality itself is simply living in a way that causes the least amount of suffering possible for all human beings. No one can be the arbitrator of what that is though, because it would be impossible to conceive of such an immeasurable amount of influences intertwined with every event happening all at once. We can, though, deduce to some degree what things on a macro level can cause the least amount of suffering, through research and scientific discovery. Magical thinking does precisely 0% in helping us along the way, nil, only through our own will do we influence the world around us positively.

and btw, you misunderstand what I am saying. I mean right and wrong as in, factual in false.

Nah, reading Dostoevsky will make you into a straight killah.

There is such a dizzying diversity of characters and standpoints in his novels that you almost always can find someone to latch onto.

For me and Brother's Karamazov it was brother Ivan with his delirious nihilistic theories and FD's signature edgelord touch.

Raskolnikov was another sympathetic character, back when I was 18 year old me.

If you believe in objective morality then there isn't much separating you from Christians. Why is suffering something that needs to be avoided ? It's only an ephemeral phenomenon.

>not Smerdiakov
heh... nethin persenal... kid..

If you think in categories like identifying yourself as this or that you are not mature enough to get a whole lot out of him, in my opinion. It's when you reach the phase of laughing at your "kinda of a nihilist" self that the world opens up to you and not just through Dostoevsky. I think a great tragedy with youth is this identity game and immature self-representation when they could be starting with the Greeks and understanding what the fuck they're even talking about. You are so much more than your nihilism and the imagined bogeymen you battle day in and day out and..Veeky Forums is the wrong format for this type of post huh..

>rational
>cringe
>critical thinker such as myself
>only science is right

I thought we were over with the "u can't no nothing" meme.

I get it, sorry for my memetic way of explaining myself

top kek
life is irrational. the whole point of religion is to make us aware of our flaws. what uncomfortable facts? i am more uncomfortable knowing God exists than if i didn't. it gives me anxiety (in the kierkegaardian sense) which forces me to be a self, and to act

You're asking me why suffering needs to be avoided, and I can't answer that in objective terms. It's because I feel a sense of injustice, it's hard to really say what motivates that feeling. Perhaps being treated right by my upbringing, I've learned to be that way to other people. I don't know. What I do know though, is I didn't get this way by accepting dogmas that threaten me with punishment if I don't follow them. I follow what I believe to be right out of a sense of justice for the world.

I'm afraid to argue any further on this subject, it seems like my arguments are prone to misunderstandings, and I consequentially having to restate the same argument in different words. I am going to go back to reading the book I'm currently reading now, hopefully I've set some new direction for your thoughts to travel inside your heads.

See, you're claiming to be logical and still follow something that you can't justify.

NOTHING CAN EVER BE TRULY JUSTIFIED,WE SHOULD ALL KILL OURSELVES

what are you reading senpai?

No, because suicide can't be justified. But I think the fact that most people don't think logically is a good thing and you should embrace it.

why is it a good thing?
because it makes us differ from robots?
is this weakness that makes us human?

Everything is good because there is no alternative. The universe as it is is perfect by default.

>Everything is good because there is no alternative.

thats a very optimistic way to view the world,i like it.

>The universe as it is is perfect by default.

nah it isn't . It just IS.
Also perfect for whaaaaat?

>perfect for whaaaaat?
That's a question I will never know the answer to. But it has to be perfect because it's the only thing that is.

La bas.

waaaaaaaaaaaait....how do you know?
ofcourse for us it may be the only thing that is,but still it might be imperfect.
THERE MIGHT be a creator of our universe,that is dissapointed by it,how do you know that?

why do you want the universe to be perfect?
why do you need it to be perfect?

Can't it just BE?

What the fuck is wrong with you ?

i wish i knew

>straight killah
Who am I going to kill?

I'm reading notes from the underground right now actually. What do you guys think of it? reminds me a lot of this place, not just the internet and not just Veeky Forums but this specific board.

Im at the part where Liza comes to his house. I'm hoping he marries her or something. Something about suffering precedes salvation with love or some gay shit like that.

>tfw you share birthday with Dostoyevski
i feel blessed

hey josh
how do you define "perfection?"

Thinking about reading Brothers Karamazov, I sorta remember reading a character in a book saying that all there is to life can be found in Brothers Karamazov.

Will I get something from it if I'm not a christian/not that interested in christianity?

Will there be anything

Agnostic then?

Yeah there are wicked nihilistic characters in it too, and Dosto totally nails them
The father of the brothers is funny too

I have your books, Logan. I'm giving you my Gnostic texts because I think you are one deep down.

Perfection is defined by flawlessness and the inability to be optimized. Since existence has both of these qualities, it is perfect.

Agnostix don't believe in God or determinism, as far as I know.

They easy way out of nihilism is Nietzsche, but if god is what you seek for go to Kierkegaard.

>im kinda of a nihilist tbqh (not in the edgy way)

So what, in the depressed way?

>orthodox
Is the silliest branch of christianity ever. It's all kiss-kiss the bible and crawling on your knees and dousing yourself in ice water when it's -40 C. Because you're so fucking holy.

Does Nietzsche actually solve nihilism though?

You got me

Seems pretty literary to me

all nihilists are desu senpai

Yup

I know some that are pretty edgy and that have cool life stories

No. He rejects reason and basically says you can only affirm life when asleep or drunk. Crazy bastard really had me going for a while but his conclusion is utter shit.