If there is a shortage of teachers then why aren't teachers literally earning millions?

Because they set their own salaries you dummy dumb dumb.

>Oh look, here is a surplus in budget
>I guess I deserve a raise ;^)

>you dummy dumb dumb.

i want a grill to vocaroo this phrase

If you get one to do it post it here. But I have copyrights on that phrase. Been using it since 2016.

>If there is a shortage of teachers then why aren't teachers literally earning millions?

Because most teachers (public schools) receive funding from the government. In order for them to be paid more, your taxes would have to go up.

But honestly that's not the only area where the shortage hits the hardest. It seems like in some schools there's even a lack of substitute teachers.

I used to do substitute teaching for some school districts and one of them would have three to four absent teachers to cover a day. And 60% of the time I would be the only one taking any of coverage jobs.

And once I do take one it's not out of the ordinary for the office to call asking me to cover for a class during my break or watch a class during my lunch. The teachers were thankful as hell too especially the specialists who are often asked to cover for classes when there were no subs available.

There is no short supply nor is there high demand. The economic meaning of these terms is not the same as the casual meaning.

Thread should end here.

US government wants people to teach but still forget how shitty is to teach at a public school and the only way you could be a real nice teacher is in a private high school where you could use all the shit you learned in University.

Thankfully, we will always have brainlet Education majors to do the STEM teaching anyway, just take those courses like Teaching Math 101 and similar and you're done.

I still don't understand why big universities have a [STEM major] + Secondary Education, like if you are going to a top university to become a FUCKING TEACHER.

There isn't actually high demand, just a bunch of people pretending like there should be.

Rememeber that it's about what people actually do, not what they talk about doing.

Because teaching is not a free market profession, it's a socialised one. If the govt took no part in education, and teachers and school had to compete on the market, there WOULD be millionaire teachers at the most prestigious academies. Of course, there would also be unpaid volunteers at the poorest schools.

so why don't we have a free market education system?

>Thankfully, we will always have brainlet Education majors to do the STEM teaching anyway, just take those courses like Teaching Math 101 and similar and you're done.

Yeah you'll always have brainlet education majors but there's not "enough" willing participants at the current magnitude in the U.S..

>I still don't understand why big universities have a [STEM major] + Secondary Education, like if you are going to a top university to become a FUCKING TEACHER.

Private teachers/tutors for parents who actually earn six figures and the randos who home school.

>another idiot thinks economics = free market hurrr because he read Adam Smith.

>hur dur I only know Econ 101 supply and demand wikipedia facts, why doesnt x work like ym haha guys economics isn't a science (even though its classed as a social science) haha guy like wtf, should i post this on reddit?

Kill yourself, retard.

Because private entities in present day rely on pre-existing infrastructure and educated personnel in order to emerge and continue operating. Any given company only invests in what they personally need, but without an actual society with functioning institutions they'll eventually wither away.

Schools aren't companies, they are excluded from supply and demand mechanics and they don't compete with each other (most of the time). They don't lose income or get punished otherwise if they suck at educating kids and therefore have no incentive to improve their product.

If you would privatize the education system and if a problem like this wouldn't get handled by market forces, then indeed your argument would be valid.

Because there isn't a shortage of teachers, just people grousing.
You can say "man I want more teachers", but if you're unwilling to pay a cent to hire more, how much do you actually want it?

You sound like a faggot.

Since education should be free it's extremely unethical for teachers to expect payment for their work, because that obviously means education is no longer free of cost. The privilege of educating and shaping up the next generation are what matters and should be enough to motive teachers. Money aren't everything in this world.

Free for the citizens. Use the taxpayers' money to fund the teachers. You still need to pay the teachers otherwise they'll die teaching.

However, contents should be freely available.

Teachers are doing a public and national service. They should expect to get paid.

>why aren't teachers literally earning millions?

Because teachers don't need to know the subject they are teaching. (at least in the USA school system.) In the USA, teachers are propaganda enablers and tuition wranglers, not actual teachers.

Same thing applies for Singapore.

Also, trying to get us on meritocracy when nepotism/cronyism runs rampant within the government.

The market don't correct the wages immediately, once it will be clear that science teacher should earn more than other teachers, you will see their wages going up just what is needed to recruit enough of them.

i checked what the pay rates are at the high school i went to and the lowest earning teachers earn 50k+ but it seems you need at least one year of experience. the ones with ~20 years of experience earn 100k+ plus.

problem is that to earn that experience you have to teach at inner city schools which are zoos. no one in their right mind wants to do that.

Because there is only such a high wage that a business can afford to pay without losing money, ie when the product created by you as an employer doesn't give as much revenue as they have to spend on producing it (where your wage is included). There's a microeconomic formula that shows that the wage will approximately be the point where the demand curve meets the revenue curve. Atleast this would be the case for a private business.

Teachers in England are paid for by the state though and then there's a set wage, no matter supply and demand.

I graduated from college and tried to do Teach for America and explicitly told them "I'll work in a shitty place, and I'll teach science" and got turned down.

Will filmed courses by the best professors on their fields eventually outdate teachers?
I think we'll end up with a small number of very high paid celebrity professors.

The problem with this approach is that children can't ask their teacher questions. Or no teacher could check how the children were doing.

Because if you're intelligent enough to get a BS in a STEM subject you're smart enough to know that teaching is a shit job.

not enough teachers not professors, do people on Veeky Forums have any common sense?

In the UK, we offer scholarships for physicists wanting to do a teacher training course, they pretty much get to choose the school they teach at, and they get nice pay packages. Problem is, teaching sucks.

There isn't a shortage of teachers

The thing is, our countries are nigger filled hellholes now
So the teachers get shoved into some shitskin classroom then quit teaching

Thats the majority of teachers now

No intelligentsia likes Common Core and all the brainwashing bullshit. The government has no right to complain.

Jobs aren't the same as products.

It's not that there is a shortage in teachers, it's that there is a shortage in quality teachers. And if you are a quality teacher, you either teach at a university or a private school and earn near or well into six figure range. Public schools are priced out and have to settle for glorified babysitters outside of the few incredibly good teachers who typically teach AP courses and stick with public school teaching instead of getting paid elsewhere on morals.

>I am studying mathematics and everytime I say it people tell me "Oh, you are gonna have a lot of jobs. There is a lack of teachers"
Every time, man.

>Implying taxpayers and the citizens are different groups.

ShiggyDiggy

Supply and demand does set the wages. People can't pay teachers millions if they don't have millions to pay them with.

Milwaukee has a program where if new teachers teach at an inner city Milwaukee school for just two years, the city will pay off all their student loan dept. Many teachers drive to the school for the first time and realize it's not worth the risk.

I saw the same thing advertised in New York. The problem is, aside from teaching being shit, it would also be a waste of a physics degree. I've seen schools offering sums like £35k, outside of London even, it's just not enough though. Physics grads have so many options it kind of makes me jealous.

Well, the situation might not be that bad. In every profession you'll hear such talks at some time. They just want to swindle you into the field, so the supply increases even more, hence less pay.

Most children would go uneducated as a result of being poor, and it would lead to more social problems than desired when we have masses of totally uneducated people running around who have less than a 2nd grade level education. At least with the current system people have at least a shitty 9th grade tier education.

i got offered a 110k$ a year maintenance gig fresh out of engineering school. i turned it down because it was in Oakland.

Workers are the same as products.

Education shouldn't be free. Information should be free, and people should expect to pay to be taught how to interpret information. Teachers aren't slaves, dude.

Repeat after me, MONOPSONY. Literally babbys first microeconomics.

That could work for highschoolers that have been taught to be self sufficient and are then evaluated with things like AP tests. It won't work for elementary and middle schoolers.

>No one wants to teach science to teen Chads and Stacies
What a surprise

>That pic

We as a society have decided that we want a certain minimum level of education for all our citizens, this level is much higher than most people could afford for themselves, so we pay teachers from tax revenue and provide it free at the point of use. If we were to stop doing this, most people would get a lousy education. Imagine having to pay the full costs of schooling, it would be tens of thousands of dollars a year, every year for 18+ years.

> If there is a shortage of teachers then why aren't teachers literally earning millions?
2/10 for making me respond
3/10 for making me save a supply-demand curve in my fap folder.

If the supermarket runs out of apples, you aren't going to run around shouting that you'll pay $1000 for an apple, will you?

If you do, cut down on the pot.

>provide it free
paying property taxes my whole adult life doesn't equal free.

Try reading to the end of the line before you hit reply, you dunce.

>But according to Econ 101, supply and demand should set the wages.

only in a free market

public schools are glorified daycare facilities that let both mom and dad have careers and pay taxes.

school should only be 3-4 hours long, and teach 3 subjects. [written/spoken language of choice], math, and law.

everything else can be learned off the internet in their spare time at little to zero cost to the taxpayer.

protip: your kid should be in community college by the time he or she is 14. "college algebra" is literally just algebra.

You're all retards.

Teaching is an interactive task, not a show.

>being this retarded

HS ex.

Per union contracts gym teachers make as much as math teachers. My math HS teachers were always salty about this.

>People don't currently pay tens of thousands of dollars a year, every year, for education

Do you think taxes are magic? If it costs tens of thousands of dollars to do it privately, it costs tens of thousands to do it publicly; changing the source of funding doesn't change the price.

Because it is more sensible to have more students per teacher than to psy teachers millions of dollars. Maybe you should do some research before coming to a conclusion?

>We as a society
Jesus christ I hate fucking smug libs who bullshit like this

That kid looks old as fuck

In a public system they can tax white productive people to pay for shitskins.

It doesn't change the price but it limits the options. There isn't a lack of teachers. There is a lack of quality teachers willing to work for a secondary public school level salary on top of dealing with the problems which plague cities.

To the anons talking out thier asses saying there isn't a teacher shortage why is there a .Gov site explicitly giving out contact information and details with a 168 page .pdf about it?

www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/pol/tsa.html

Seriously can you at least fucking Google the topic before you post?

But that is not a real shortage.

A real shortage is when there is a job barely anyone is trained to do. This teacher shortage is fake because literally any fucking retard with anything above a highschool diploma knows enough to be a teacher in some subject. But no one wants to do it.

Furthermore, when there is a shortage of engineers or doctors what happens? Wages go up or immigration opportunities in the form of work visas appear to find people from other countries to fill these jobs.

In the case of teachers, no one is fucking raising their wages and therefore no one will care. And no one is going to bring foreigners to become teachers because that would be political suicide.

Basically it is worse than a shortage. It is like inflation. We have too many dollars but they are worth shit. Oops, I meant we have too many teachers but the profession of teaching is worth shit.

Because of politics. Everyone blames teachers for everything wrong in the education system even for things they have no control over.

Because economics can't run controlled reproducible experiments. It's basically women's studies and racial "science" tier (i.e. pseudoscience).

Parents are easily convinced that they can be better teachers than teachers. In redneckistan (Texas) there was a period where the shortage got so bad that schools actually started recruiting parents to become teachers via radio ads. The parents would start taking night school courses on how to teach and start working right away. The pay was shit but parents are fucking dumb when it comes to education.

Are you illiterate?

>There is no short supply nor is there high demand. The economic meaning of these terms is not the same as the casual meaning.

I think we will see a small group of superstar lecturers who record videos that are used in lieu of textbooks and teachers will see their role change to more of of TA/coach who is just there to answer questions

>This teacher shortage is fake because literally any fucking retard with anything above a highschool diploma knows enough to be a teacher in some subject.

There's a difference between knowing enough and being cleared to teach. You need certification, background check, approval by a district superintendent and state's board of education to teach user. Even the substitutes who need less creditials require that shit.

>In the case of teachers, no one is fucking raising their wages and therefore no one will care.

No, the wages aren't going up because that would require raising taxes or allocating more money to the federal budget.

>And no one is going to bring foreigners to become teachers because that would be political suicide.

No, it would just be expensive as fuck because you would have to go through an extensive background check for each foreign teacher and verify their creditials which is already a problem cause not all foreign countries colleges meet US standards.

So let's get this straight, you talk about the economic shortage is not the same as a casual shortage.

And yet in states like California where they are actively pushing money into programs specifically to promote, accept and train both qualified teachers and paraprofessionals in education to the extent of including residency programs and providing statistics for the inclusion of raising salaries above averages (something that has been brought up multiple times in this very thread) it doesn't count.

learningpolicyinstitute.org/product/ca-teacher-shortage-persistent-problem-brief

>There's a difference between knowing enough and being cleared to teach.

And those extra things are all a fucking joke. Certification? Background check? Approval? Any retard with a university education can easily get that.

Every single university graduate every year is a new potential teacher. As long as they are able to run the extra mile. And by extra mile I mean the extra centimeter.

>No, the wages aren't going up because that would require raising taxes or allocating more money to the federal budget.

Exactly, so we don't have a shortage. When we see people dying on the streets and society collapsing because no one is teaching then that will be a shortage.

Now the education industry merely doesn't have the PRIVILEGE of paying peanuts to teachers.

>Omg! No one wants to work for me! And I am so generous, I am even offering them a full 5 cents! HOW COME! WE HAVE A SHORTAGE! A SHORTAGE IS SAY!

Your own link explains everything
There is no "shortage of teachers"

What you have is:

Shitskins don't pay taxes so budgets in shitskin areas are somewhat limited
Whites won't teach a shitskin filled school, even for high wages, its not worth being harassed, assaulted, threatened, etc on a daily basis
Large fractions of the kids in these areas don't speak english, causing other issues
Then of course existing teachers tell other people "This is hell on earth, don't become a teacher"

At the end of the day, the reality is that you don't need teachers at all, all you need is a textbook and a babysitter

education should be a universal human right paid for with taxes because its deeply unethical any other way. Same goes for health care.

if you disagree then you can fuck right off and kill yourself.

>And those extra things are all a fucking joke. Certification? Background check? Approval? Any retard with a university education can easily get that.

user the background check alone knocks out those with criminal records. Approval by both the superintendent and board education require college transcripts some of these states and district have a minimum standard.

So despite your constant meme, no, not just any retard with a degree can get that.

>Exactly, so we don't have a shortage. When we see people dying on the streets and society collapsing because no one is teaching then that will be a shortage.

I hope you're trolling user, just because the government decides not to allocate money or raise taxes for teacher salaries does not mean a shortage does not exist. It just means the government is being negligent.

>Your own link explains everything
>There is no "shortage of teachers"
>Whites won't teach a shitskin filled school, even for high wages
>Then of course existing teachers tell other people "This is hell on earth, don't become a teacher"

user regardless of how you want to frame the issue, your post in the end is ultimately in agreement that there is a shortage of teachers.

Because in the end the stats back up the fact the shortage exist.

>user the background check alone knocks out those with criminal records.

Oh wow. You can't have a criminal record! Yes, I remember. Goody two shoes nerds like us who go to college tend to be fucking drug dealers and shit. I FORGOT! I guess I can't teach because of that one time I did crack. lol

What percentage of people have criminal records? like 1%? kek.

> just because the government decides not to allocate money or raise taxes for teacher salaries does not mean a shortage does not exist.

It does! There is not a shortage of teachers. There is a shortage of incentives for being a teacher.

Imagine if out of nowhere tomorrow lawyers had to be paid what teachers earn. All those people with JD's would say "fuck that" and go do something else.

You going to call that a shortage of lawyers? kek

Hello sir. I disagree, but I will not kill myself for you. :(

Guys, being a teacher/lecturer in uni is not easy.
Apart from paperwork, you have to do shit like:
>Making tests (if you have no assistants)
>Grading
>Doing research or no money
>Writing research grants or no money
>Cooperate with other researchers if your field is niche
>Studying (who say you don't need to study when you are a teacher?)
The point is, being a teacher in a uni requires multiple tasks unrelated to each other (i.e. grading and researching and school paperwork). Each of them demand a lot of time.
This is why most PhD get out and find an R&D job out of school.
Did I also say that at unpopular schools where research funds are limited, the teachers have to battle each other to get money?

Hm, so what exactly do you have a right to? A good education or any education or the best possible education? You think there are enough best teachers in the world to teach everybody the same? How do you think we should divy up the education between the students? How do we pick which students get the good teachers and which ones get the bad ones?

No. They all slept in their humanities courses

because you read a wikipedia page instead of doing years of study and research

well, anything people related will suffer from this really. you can only treat/teach/w/e so many people.

>Because in the end the stats back up the fact the shortage exist.
The stats say that they have trouble filling their staff, at their salaries & locations
Not that there is an overall shortage

>Imagine if out of nowhere tomorrow lawyers had to be paid what teachers earn. All those people with JD's would say "fuck that" and go do something else.

On the opposite end, if teachers were paid as well as lawyers, I guarantee quality of teachers would improve overnight, and the entire populace would see "smarter" citizens over the course of years. I hate that teachers aren't paid better. Hell, governments could even require more of teachers (like an MS instead of just a BS). But they don't get paid well, so we get shitter teachers.

>www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/pol/tsa.html
>/pol/

Nice try.
This, especially for public schools. I know teachers that have dedicated 20 years teaching inner city trying to help kids become something better than their shitty households, and after 20 years of experience they only make around $60k a year.

And when they quit, there are no new teaches to replace them, because the teachers get blamed for everything. Shitty policy coming from the board of education (Who currently has two prior real estate agents with no school experience whatsoever)? Teachers' faults. Bad parents? Teachers' faults.

So teachers leave, then nobody wants to replace them, then people bitch about there not being enough teachers to blame for everything.