Consciousness emerges from self reference

consciousness emerges from self reference.

Prove me wrong

In addition, physicality emerges from self reference. Physicality emerges immediately. Consciousness technically does too, but doesn't emerge in any meaningful way unless intelligent mechanisms create meta-physicality about the current physical environment.

You're retarded.

Provide and proof at all that you are right.

literally just think about it for a minute

theres literally no other solution. All other attempts end up contradicting themselves at points or not fully explaining everything, or both.

>No evidence

>All other attempts end up contradicting themselves
Have you tried literally all of the millions amd millions of attempts? Otherwise that's not proof

Can someone explain this shit to me in layman's terms?

consciousness comes before self reference

>consciousness emerges from self reference.


Then what does consciousness reflect on since consciousness isn't created until self reflection happens?

Chicken and egg.

So how does that happen.
Besides isn't the self same as consciousness?

>Prove me wrong

You are

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>James Clerk Maxwell FRS FRSE (13 June 1831 – 5 November 1879) was a Scottish[3][4] scientist in the field of mathematical physics.[5] His most notable achievement was to formulate the classical theory of electromagnetic radiation, bringing together for the first time electricity, magnetism, and light as manifestations of the same phenomenon. Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism have been called the "second great unification in physics"[6] after the first one realised by Isaac Newton. When Maxwell first published his equations in A Dynamical Theory of the Electromagnetic Field he presented an ingenious proof, which is as follows: "Literally just think about it for a minute."

OP BTFO

consciousness takes place at self reference, yes that means self reference is consciousness itself. Its just self reference alone just creates fractals, there's consciousness there technically but its basically meaningless. meaningful consciousness requires some sort of self analysis and increases with intelligence.

I agree with you OP. Everything that I have seen suggests that you are correct; however, proving that statement will take decades.

But the self isn't created until you are conscious of this self.
Which came first in your theory?

Self - requires consciousness

Consciousness- requires self

This is one part what I wanted from this thread, thanks.

The other part is missing which is actual attempts to criticize the idea. I want to prove it as best I can by at least explaining all my thinking, but its not something I've been able to talk to many about so my explaination isn't so great. I find people understand me better if instead I let them ask questions about parts they don't understand.

so again Veeky Forums, prove me wrong, please

ah, ok good one,

self is more to do with just a system being considered an object, and it can be applied to pretty much any object. So self is sort of always present, in the same way that a glass of water is a glass of water regardless of if a consciousness has viewed it, because the meaning is accurate. However there is no consequence to that meaning until a consciousness views it, and same for self. Its just a concept observed, so technically it kinda is always there but it doesn't have any practical meaning or consequence until something actually perceives that concept in it.

In a way. I'd say it's a combination of:
>Feedback/feedforward system
>Feedback system can modify itself
Think of it like an e.g. PID controller that can alter the values of P, I and D based on input

Consciousness can obviously reflect on ones own body. The mind itself is embodied, extended from our enactivist sensory perception

No, self and consciousness are same part of an indivisible whole. Differences are pure semantics.

the self is a cognitive schema, it has nothing to do with consciousness.

>Prove me wrong
prove yourself right first