Out of africa is bullshit prove me wrong

malaria has been found in mosquitoes in amber up to 30 million years old. it infects primates, it infected early hominids, and it infects humans. It has had severe effects on human evolution, with multiple common traits existing purely to counter it
-glucose 6 phosphate deficiency seen in 10-15% of black males and many carriers for the trait
-sickle trait seen in up to 10% of blacks
-thalassemias are another group of diseases that exist purely because being a carrier of the trait is protective against malaria

all of these traits are so common that almost every single person in africa at this point is a carrier of at least one trait that protects against malaria. these traits are recessive traits, and confer only advantages to carriers. the sheer frequency and different number of these traits to survive malaria shows how important it has been in evolution of humans in africa.

but somehow, in just the 10,000 years since humans "left" africa, all of these recessive traits are barely even found in northern europe!! somehow, in just 10,000 years, a recessive trait that has no bad effects was selected out of the entire population to the point they are not seen in entire populations in northern europe. how can this be? assuming the frequency became low enough, sickle disease would only manifest in like 1 in 100k people there but the carrier state should still be at least like 1%. but it is not seen at all outside of some admixture from africa in spain, and this is the case in MULTIPLE traits against malaria.

so how can this be? simple. out of africa is bullshit. I am going to post the frequencies of the various traits that protect against malaria, and you can analyze for yourself and try to work the mental gymnastics to salvage the so called out of africa theory.

...

additionally, in the 400 years that blacks have been in the USA, where malaria is not seen, this recessive trait did not decline at all. the rates of sickle trait in the USA and africa are exactly the same. the velocity of trait loss would have to have been fairly rapid to lose it to the levels of northern europe in just 10k years, and the evidence that this rapid loss would not occur is seen right now by US blacks!

Are you for real? Have you studied SNPs and Haplotypes?

The Maps they have created almost prove we originate from one general location

ya, for some reason the M and N haplogroups, the ones dominant outside of africa, are found to almost no degree in africa itself. the main theory on that is that somehow this haplogroup came into being very shortly before migration and then everyone with that haplogroup left. does that sound plausible to you? maybe thats why there is actually controversy about it

either way, I would take actual trait prevalence anyday over unstable mitochondrial DNA which if you really want to get into the numbers is pretty stable between different species already, to the point that it might not be the best tool for differentiating between closely related species. I would rather do the classic phylogeny of looking at traits, and seeing that there is a glaring fucking inconsistency here.

The theory is that there was a significant bottleneck in the early human population iirc.

or maybe the multiple origin theory is correct in that the trace amounts of M haplotype in africa is from migration to africa from asia

I think your dissent stems from the fact that you think this mass migration happened 10,000 years ago. I'm pretty sure nobody thinks that. It would be more like 60,000 to 100,000 years ago.

the number changes every year. either way, 400 years of africans in north america with no change in the malarial resistance traits relative to african counterparts (after the selective prssure for these traits was removed and before modern medicine to negate the benefits) suggests that it still wouldn't be at its nearly extinguished levels seen in Europe (if there even is any endogenous levels of it there beyond recent admixture)

Genetic resistance to malaria never became "extinguished" in Europe, it was an innovation in West African populations.

How is being recessive an argument in your favor?

>but somehow, in just the 10,000 years since humans "left" africa, all of these recessive traits are barely even found in northern europe!!

Do you really know what this means?

>deleterious recessive trait persists due to heterozygote advantage
>heterozygote advantage goes away due to change in environment
>50,000 years later, or ~2500 generations, deleterious trait is gone
can't explain that

I Don't Understand This, Therefore It's Bullshit: The Thread

>these traits are recessive traits, and confer only advantages to carriers.
Utter bullshit. Everything you listed causes anemia and other harmful side effects. It's no surprise that changes to the structure of such critical proteins is selected against except when they confer a larger advantage due to malaria being rampant.

>additionally, in the 400 years that blacks have been in the USA, where malaria is not seen, this recessive trait did not decline at all.
Utter bullshit. The prevalence of sickle cell anemia among African Americans is only 5% of the prevalence in Africans. This is partly due to admixture with non-Africans, but admixture cannot explain all of the extreme difference. Additionally, we know that the rate is still falling among African Americans.

So the basic premises of your argument are dead wrong.

Malaria is found in West Africa and not in the higher altitude and relatively dry climate of East Africa.

Humans originate in East Africa in the region near Ethiopia, Sudan and Kenya where prior to trade malaria was uncommon.

Your entire post is irrelevant.

this desu

>but somehow, in just the 10,000 years since humans "left" africa, all of these recessive traits are barely even found in northern europe!! somehow, in just 10,000 years, a recessive trait that has no bad effects was selected out of the entire population to the point they are not seen in entire populations in northern europe.

Reminder to op that the out Africa theory posed that small migratorial populations left the continent.

It is very possible that those populations had low to no percentage of individuals that carried the trait. And even if they did due to the lack of environmental pressure several thousand years would easily be enough time to be completely selected out of the new genome due to ill adaptation of the individuals/family line that had it or assortive mating practices.

Also sickle cell trait does have negative effects, any two individuals who have the trait and procreate with each other allows the chance for the offspring to not only have the trait but the crippling disease associated with it. Which before modern medicine was a guaranteed death sentence and potentially a genetic dead end if the parents weren't constantly pumping children out in the off chance of one surviving to adulthood.

Gotta love how there's still idiots that think they found the absolute refusal to a theory and post it on Veeky Forums

[spoiler]and they're always wrong[/spoiler]

Out of Africa is the theory that humans began in Africa NOT HURR WE CAME FROM NIGGERS DURR.

Out of Africa actually builds up a case for black people to be seen as devolved primitives compared to Eurasian homo sapiens.

Many of us are no longer in Africa.
>Checkmate.

What a fucking shit thread

the idea that 'white' skin evolved in subsaharan africa is dismisable by itself. the different races/species subsets with genus homo sapien evolved in completely different regions of earth to adapt to specific hostile environmental dangers.

Niggers aren't human.

There I said what you want to hear. Now back to pol

Iraq is not in Africa.

Therefore the "out of Africa" movement is wrong.