Multicellular life can occur on a habitable planet

>Multicellular life can occur on a habitable planet.
>This supposed life can advance to a level where they can achieve means of interstellar communication and space travel.
>This supposed life can visit and send probes to other planets.

Since we, -the humankind- is the existing proof of concept to this idea, why do some people absolutely reject the possibility of alien life elsewhere?
Also among the +100 billion habitable planets out there just in the milky way, shouldn't atleast one of them must have developed intelligent life just like Earth?

Other urls found in this thread:

cell.com/cell-chemical-biology/abstract/S1074-5521(13)00426-2
youtube.com/watch?v=Tw9jk9m01XI
rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/366/1580/2885
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/04/120413-nasa-viking-program-mars-life-space-science/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

because some people believe the world is 6000 years old and was created by some angry old dude in the sky.

People who are incapable of understanding simple statistics deny the possibility of alien life.

The question is not whether alien life exists, but for how long.

>supposed life can advance to a level where they can achieve means of interstellar communication
this has not been proven yet

>humans
>intelligent life

Well we do know that our signals can reach other planets with little loss of communication.

interplanetar ≠ interstellar

>:o

>why do some people absolutely reject the possibility of alien life elsewhere

Because no one can adequately explain how life made the highly improbable leap from promising soup of exotic enzymes to outright self-replication, AKA abiogenesis. The three leading explanations are:

>God
>the universe just sorta creates life at a certain conditional threshold (making it highly probable elsewhere)
>Anthropic Principle and MWI (making it highly unlikely elsewhere)

So in effect, the current scientific explanation is "???", making it difficult to conclude one way or the other in favor of Ayy Lmaos.

>habitable
there's the hangup

>no one can adequately explain how life made the highly improbable leap from promising soup of exotic enzymes to outright self-replication
lelwut, once there is a chain of polymerizing polymers that polymerize each other, it's p ez

100 billion tho. I think the real hangup is the distance between them.

Exactly.

I like to imagine tiny static-like flickers of light in a dark room popping into and out of existence before ever being able to search for each other.

Even if they did, the room is too vast compared to their size. The chances of them finding each other are astronomically small.

Have you never heard of the RNA world hypothesis? Come on lad.

We have LITERALLY synthesized chains of RNA that replicate themselves in a soup of nucleotides

fuck off math autist don't opine outside of your field

>why a self-replicating substance should occur at all
because lots of energy were put into it

Cite where this occurred in a lab.

Miller Urey only generated the "promising soup" I mentioned, NOT "life". And it's a mighty big leap from fragile RNA to robust DNA.

And there's also the weirder question of why a self-replicating substance should occur at all, and why the universe isn't just a boring arrangement of chemicals (or even elementary particles) doing nothing interesting (the far more likely scenario), which narrows the choices down to God or MWI...

And MWI inevitably results in a God-like entity coming into existence...(pic related)...

>And it's a mighty big leap from fragile RNA to robust DNA.
lel it's not. two rna make one dna.

lmao ok buddy
Gerald Joyce's group (at Scripps) does this on a REGULAR BASIS, and they even got their self-replicating RNA to improve itself using natural selection

cell.com/cell-chemical-biology/abstract/S1074-5521(13)00426-2

Check out his group page for more work, it's fascinating stuff. I went to one of his talks, he's charismatic in addition to being smart as fuck

I hope you actually have access to academic papers, otherwise you really are full of hot air.

The statistical unlikelihood of communicating with any aylmaos is quite literally astronomical.

yeah, under perfect conditions, and it barely worked. not very strong hypothesis on how it all started.

no one has ever created life in a lab, period.

Craig Venter did. He once created a novel, extremely simple, one cell organism. The absolute mettmann.

he took apart living cells and reassembled them, he didnt create life.

>People who are incapable of understanding simple statistics deny the possibility of alien life.
When will this meme die?

There's only 1 planet we know to have life on it. From this you deduce that there must be a near infinite amount of planets with life on it.
Suppose you found a briefcase filled with gold bullion on the street some place.
Would that mean that there must be other briefcases filled with gold bullion on other streets?

Or suppose you know 2 women and one of them wants to fuck you. Now suppose you meet 20 more women, would that mean that 11 women wants to fuck you or would it mean 1 woman wants to fuck you.

There might be aliens and there might not be, but saying that because space is big there must be aliens is fallacious.
We know life happened once, we have no idea the exact cause of life existing. We can't even estimate the likelihood of it happening again.

Check out these man made cells getting excited when they are fed,

youtube.com/watch?v=Tw9jk9m01XI

shit...its alive

Pretty sure our radio signals and even laser signals won't reach aliens any time soon, much less will they be able to respond any time soon unless they are in one of the closest systems to us. Plus, it's possible that the realm of feasible FTL travel for us (life in general) is limited to just barely over light speed. There's some hope in wormholes and entangled particle connections possibly allowing us to either tunnel through the fabricate of space instantly or "teleporting" through the use of entangled communication making matter replicators to print copies of us and our ships out the other side. The later only making interstellar empires feasible, but slow to expand over the course of thousands of years since they have to get an exit gate to it's destination and matter collection operations underway to allow for printing the copies.

so he created living cells? that does it in my book.

as much as you created a car when you change the oil

So he took the base particles of a living cell, them being pulled apart and into an inert state of "death", and then used those particles to make a new cell that was alive (or resurrect the old one, same difference)

Face it, scientists are wizards and this guy happens to be a necromancer.

>take apart a clock
>put clock back together
he created a clock?

It's really cool, right? Technically it is not alive. It's just using what we know about cells to make protocells,

rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/366/1580/2885

But, as you can see, once we understand that cells are not magic and rely on mechanisms that can be understood and even sometimes replicated in a lab, we begin to realize the plausibility of life existing on other planets.

Life is indeed special and unique, but life is not magic.

except all he needs to do now (if he hasn't already) is to figure out how to make those base parts from base matter.

if you build a new car from spare car parts of twenty cars, you created a car. eg skoda cars are made of vw, audi, and seat parts.

and how the design of the clock just happened to come into existence randomly.

That would be amazing. I think that would officially give us replicator technology from Star Trek and would revolutionize the world.

I love your analogy.

Forgot to insert relevant cool pic. One martini please.

Not really.

Just "habitable" to life as we know it. Considering life is found pretty much everywhere in every environment on this Earth, it'd be illogical to assume that life could only form under the conditions of Earth given the sheer volume of the universe and ample opportunity.

Nobody said this and it isn't relevant to the conversation

Barely worked? The population doubles every five minutes! It doesn't need to be PERFECT. It just needs to self-replicate, and the rest can follow naturally from there.

Let me try and explain the RNA hypothesis.
>UNFATHOMABLE amounts of RNA floating around (it forms abiotically)
>they snap together and unsnap randomly for a looooong time
>Once - and this only has to happen once - they snap together to make a self-replicator enzyme (possibly like the one Joyce's group made, possibly not)
>It starts replicating itself using the RNA floating around, and its replications begin replicating
>No chemical process is perfect - errors occur
>These errors might not affect the replication. They might slow it, in which case replicator enzymes that have the error quickly get phased out of the population.
>Sometimes the random errors will actually result in enzymes that can replicate FASTER. These breeds will eventually overtake all the slower ones, until another copying error produces an even FASTER enzyme.
>Maybe it's not even about speed, but stability or lifetime.
>Random errors arise that give advantages through other interesting methods. Maybe breaking down other enzymes, or forming a wall around themselves.
>Remember that these errors are only being propagated because they enable an enzyme to replicate itself better than the others, so it ends up representing a larger portion of the population. Maybe the amount of RNA present is finite at this scale.
>The ball of life is now rolling

>I don't understand probability

If it worked once, it worked somewhere else in the Universe.

Current estimates put the total number of galaxies in the observable universe could be as high as 2 trillion

Just try and comprehend how many stars and planets total there are.

To think that Earth is the only planet in the observable Universe that could produce life is astoundingly stupid.

But what if the lights don't die out? A research I read here a few months ago said that we were quite likely the first civilization ever to exist in the universe.

A clock isn't self replicating and is made of significantly more materials, a cell is usually self replicating and it only technically needs to happen once in that case.

We have atomic level manipulators made for making primitive nano bots in a laboratory somewhere.

Not him/them, but do scientists have an idea when life becomes conscious? Low level cell processes are pretty mechanical but when intent gets involved and how is what really boggles my mind

what about artificial life in computer simulations?

Howcome our laser signals don't reach other star systems ?

If he put it back together in a completely different configuration and got it to run, yes. He created a new clock

>entangled particle connections possibly allowing us to either tunnel through the fabricate of space instantly or "teleporting" through the use of entangled communication making matter replicators to print copies of us and our ships out the other side.
pure fagottry. qe doesnt work like that.

'when' is the question

why do peope see 'life' as something so special? it's not more special than a bizarre rock formation on some desert planet or the geysers on enchilladus or whatever. one bizarre geological appearance among many others.

I think it's something to do with when the reactions start reacting differently based on the state of it's internal conditions or reacting to things within itself. IE if it has a store of "x" but needs more "y", then it actively hunts for "y", passing up "x"

Just a guess.

We don't really know HOW they work exactly. Unless you know why two particles can seemingly communicate/match their states instantaneously to each other or perhaps exist in two different places at once.

because they are lightyears away and won't reach them for years and the response will likely take just as long. This is assuming we are pointing our laser in the right direction and that it is not drowned out by the light/radiation from the sun.

isn't it like a deck of cards? if i know 51 cards then the last one's identity is not hard to guess.

Because we are "alive" and the more things we can convince ourselves is special about us, the less pointless and unimportant we will feel. Not everyone can cope with the idea that they don't matter.

The question is how two particles can have exactly the same states. even if one is changed from outside influences, the other seems to match it no matter how far the two are apart. How does a particle communicate this change?

4th dimension confirmed.

I thought they have opposite states.

that's not even how spin statistics works

op that pic is a grey, they don't come from other planets, they are our offspring

they all become so advanced that they just ascend from this plane

now its our turn

lol

I've never seen anyone deny the possibility of life on other planets.

Count yourself lucky that you are not surrounded by religious people.

>says the devil himself

Sugoi, Devil-senpai.

>Because no one can adequately explain how life made the highly improbable leap
Lightning hitting the ocean caused molecules to organize into self replicating nanostructures that eventually became RNA based microbes.

Regarded with envious eyes. Don't know what you got till its gone

>they are our offspring
its the other way around

t. guy who is incapable of understanding simple statistics

that's logic is kind of flawed though as what you are doing is making a new clock from pre-existing clock parts.

it more
>take apart clock
>meltdown or seperate parts into singular elements or/ as they occur in nature
>turn these elements back into parts
>build a new clock

AYY lmao

>Cool cell, Ahbid
>You should bring it to the White House :^)

well there is a third option but it requires the many worlds interpretation

among the infinite number of universes, there will be at least one universe where the humanoids became sufficiently advanced they can move between universes

but i prefer to think of them as humans from so far into the future they figure out how to move through time, hence their constant dna sampling and apparent genetic meddling

The Earth is actually flat and all science is a Jewish conspiracy to turn us away from the path of Jesus.
"Aliens" are just satan spawn.
All of you speak blasphemy

you should remind them that god as described by the bible is essentially an alien

Evidence of past microscopic life forms has been found on mars.

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/04/120413-nasa-viking-program-mars-life-space-science/

Thats 2 planets in one solar system. If you are only counting rocky planetary bodies in a consistent close solar orbit that we have found evidence of life on first hand, thats a 50% chance of life arising in our solar system alone. Could be a fluke though, after all mars could have seeded life on Earth. So lets look at a worst case scenario. Lets say the chance of life arising on any given Earth like planet is 1 in 1 billion. Thats some small odds, but even with those odds there would be an estimated 100 other solar systems with life on their planets... In our galaxy alone. Ok lets say about 90% of the time, life ends up like it did on Mars, dying out at the microbial level. There could be 10 other species out there in our own galaxy, wondering if we exist. Thats assuming that life arises 1 out of every 1 billion chances its given, and of that 1 time in a billion, only 10% give rise to intelligent beings. Now apply that to the literally trillions of galaxies in the observable universe. Statistically, if you are betting on us being the only life in the universe, your chances of winning suck.

This. Statistically speaking theres a good chance theres a solar system somewhere out there thats almost identical to ours. Unless you believe in God, and that we are somehow special, why wouldnt life exist there?

Agree. To me the distinction between conscious/unconscious is infinitely more important than living/nonliving.

Maybe consciousness as we know it is the product of a system that is complex enough and structured.
Maybe it's not limited to life.

We have no fucking idea how likely life is to emerge on a perfectly-suitable planet.

We know of one planet where we KNOW it was possible, as far as we can tell even here it was sufficiently unlikely that it only arose once.

Lacking data, what you are doing is not "statistics," it is "guessing."

Let the number of planets in the entire universe suited for life to arise = X.
Doesn't matter how large X is, if the chances of life arising on a perfect planet are 1 in a-billion- multiplied-by-X then the chances that we are alone in the Universe are pretty good.

Lacking data, you can't assign probabilities even roughly.

U would have struck that ocean billions of times, but life seems to have arisen only once.

It's just one of those things where we don't have enough data yet to claim with great confidence but is just so reasonable and logical that all we need is to find the evidence.

Abiogenesis is a gradual complexity-increasing process beginning from simple organic chemicals – the very chemicals life eats in a hurry. Once life enters an area, abiogenesis becomes impossible there. It’s probable that the reason abiogenesis only happened once on Earth is that life spread from its starting point across the world before abiogenesis could occur a second time somewhere else.

You keep forgetting Mars. Microbial life has existed there at some point. So we know of TWO planets that life has arisen on.

Sauce? Last time I was paying attention, the evidence of life on Mars was weak as fuck, too readily explicable by simpler processes. But maybe I missed something.

atheist here, beleliving in God doesn't necessarily mean not believing in life elsewhere in the universe

Not if this is but a simulation. We would start in one place on one planet in one solar system with one child who grew up to bring more of us onto this earth.

But maybe we're merely physical anomalies and we merely die and are gone forever; meaningless.

Or maybe someone brings us back to life in the far, far future.

What if we are simulations ?

debunked

How the hell can any kind of research yield that conclusion? A thought experiment maybe.

Do you have any idea just how vast the galaxy is? 100 other solar systems with life? are you retarded? Chances that these 100 intelligent lives come in contact with each other is astronomically low. There might as well be 0 life in the galaxy. Insignificant.

We're an entire species of special snowflakes; I hope we find an alien species that's evolved convergently to look exactly like us, the butthurt would be massive.
>B-But Muh God made me special

That all depends on which god we are talking about.

how can we prove aliens exist when we can't prove we exist

>but for how long.
And where.

To quote an old internet adage
We are, "First!"