Fantasy

>>Moorcock

I really need to read more moorcock.

Read the Von Bek trilogy if you haven't already. One of my personal favorites of his, though they're all pretty good.

I agree. Tolkien wasn't trying to write "fantasy". He was trying to write mythology. Because he was a linguistics scholar and expert on ancient texts and languages.

Writers today, are trying to write "fantasy." Which is all an imitation of Tolkien's mythology.
Its sort of like how so much of Roman plays and poetry are about Homer's world.

Fun facts from wikipedia, Tolkien was a libertarian/anarchist and hated the 60s hippy culture in America, which was one of the larger portions of his fandom.

Oh by the way, the term middle earth shows up in Joyce's Ulysses a few times. I can't remember where.

Why would you bring up that thing about Ulysses?

>the Shire's a completely unrealistic conservative fantasy
>Ursula le Guin's anarcho-communist utopias are just fine, though

He doesn't even try to hide his criticism of Tolkien is politically motivated.

>WE

Peake Peake Peake

Wheel of Time is pretty good, but it's not a "one-up".

I mean, is it even possible to "one-up" people who literally founded a genre of literature? I doubt it. Everything afterwards will simply build on the original.

schizophrenia, my good sir.

I read The Silmarillions recently for the first time and it was pretty outstanding to think how vast and detailed the world Tolkien created is.

As much as I enjoyed it ,it made sad at the same time.The lord of the rings was only a snippet of the world he was creating , what a treat it would be to see the storys from the Silmarillion brought to life in a multiplenovel fashion like tlotr.How great it would be if Tolkien was a Numenorean and had the gift of extended life to finish his great work

much better than tolkien

exactly.
"Fantasy" is nothing but a giant coverup to dilute the substance of Tolkein's expression in our culture.

Mythology is not meant to entertain only, it's meant to TEACH and to be a guide of how to live your life and set your sights on your highest potential.

The Lord of the Rings is a lesson about the modernizing world. It's meant to give hope and guidance to us small people who seem utterly helpless. It's meant to remind us of where we come from and to encourage us in holding ourselves to a higher standard despite the darkness of the world.

It's much, much more than entertainment. It isn't "fantasy" at all. It's pure allegory. Every element in his world corresponds 1:1 with an element of our world. It's a truly elegant explanation of things that has a fine level of detail for those more aware but is still understandable to people who are more in it for the entertainment value alone.
It's the most important work in hundreds of years. It's a classic that belongs in the same rank as the most treasured of the ancient classics.

Wheel of Time is pure, pure shit. It blatantly steals superficial elements from the Lord of the Rings and juxtaposes them around according to a totally incoherent world view. "Fantasy" is not a genre of literature. It's flak. It's brainless noise drowning out art in the minds of the vast, vast majority of would-be thinking people.

The Malazan Book of the Fallen is pretty darn fantastic when it comes to Epic Fantasy.

>It's pure allegory
Except he explicitly stated that it wasn't.
>"As for any inner meaning or ‘message,’ it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical…. I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author".

He's lying ,of course it is

>It's pure allegory
You are literally disregarding Tolkien when saying this. kys

>I think that many confuse applicability with allegory
I guess that's what he would say of me, but if you look at the definition and the roots of "allegory" it is an applicable word.

>A symbolic representation which can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, usually a moral or political one

not the sense I mean, which is probably the definition Tolkien had in mind when making this comment.

What did tom bombadil represent?

That's because middle earth is a reference to the norse midgard.

It's a shame the writing is incredibly awful.

Never had a problem with it. It wasn't that clever, and was dense. Honestly I would rate the prose as merely ok, it got the job done. I very much liked the world, plotting, and characters. The prose itself was a way to experience that.

Yeah, you liked the characters also, so having no taste is a given.

I never really saw the issue people had with most of the characters. Sure there are a few bad eggs, but they shouldn't ruin the entire series. Which ones did you dislike? Which of the novels did you read?

The first. It was beyond awful. It was essentially a 15 year old writing his dnd fan fiction. The characters are all the same, it's impossible to tell who is talking based on the language.

That is just factually incorrect. Quick Ben, Antsy, and Whiskeyjack do in fact have different vocabularies and vernacular, and the trio had some the most prevalent group conversations.

If you couldn't tell the difference in speech you actually weren't paying attention.

WUZ

KANGZ

(Sorry for the shitposting but I fucking well had to in a thread like this, didn't I?)

I agree 100% with this user, and I think it's worth noting point:

> Fun facts from wikipedia, Tolkien was a libertarian/anarchist

I'm an AnCom and I really like this interpretation. Tolkien is basically writing an anti-industrialisation, pro-autonomy, anti-fascist sort of novel

Yes, it's called feudalism and Christianity.

Real question here:

If everything fantasy it just diluted Tolkien and Tolkien's work was based on other mythologies doesn't that make Tolkien just as diluted?

To be fair Tolkien's middlearth's universe is a much grander scale than most other fictional universes.

Aren't there viewpoints and ideas expressed in other fantasy works? only Tolkien?