If you shove suppositories up your ass, I know the drug goes from the portal vein to your liver and from your liver to the rest of your body.
But does your liver also dump some of this back into your small intestine?
That would make sense right?
I need the drug I'm taking to get into my small intestine.
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
researchgate.net
health.harvard.edu
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
slideshare.net
gnc.com
vitamincfoundation.org
twitter.com
bump pls halp
.......what drug are you taking?
doesn't matter
it's also for health reasons not druggie reasons
I have lyme disease and it severely affects my gut
Ok, answer your own question then, faggot.
I don't know the answer though.
I need a biofag to help.
bumping
any biology students or doctors out there?
second bump
Try not sticking it up your ass?
A suppository won't get to your small intestine, did you ever try putting it in the other hole i.e. your mouth?
Your liver filters your blood which goes everywhere in your body, including the intestines. It goes on the inside though, through your circulatory system, not the "outside" of you stomach lining. Technically the entire digestive tract is considered to be outside of your body.
>A suppository won't get to your small intestine, did you ever try putting it in the other hole i.e. your mouth?
My entire intestines are paralyzed.
OP, I'm pretty sure you're retarded and whatever you are trying is never going to work.
But this is the thing you are talking about:
en.wikipedia.org
researchgate.net
It's going to depend massively on how the drug is metabolised by your liver. Remember, your livers function is to get rid of anything in excess or foreign to the body- which a drug will be.
Now, assuming your drug isn't massively metabolised by the liver, and doesn't need to be taken orally so it can be digested plus the metabolites work at their site of action, yes - your drug will reach the receptors on your small intestine via the systemic system.
Essentially your drug will go aorta --> cranial/caudal mesenteric to your small intestine.
However... If as your suggesting your entire intestines are paralysed, I would suggest you have larger problems right now- and need to follow your doctor's advice to a T. What did your doctor say?
>and need to follow your doctor's advice to a T. What did your doctor say?
I live in a country where the government monopolizes the medical industry.
Every doctor I've been to tells me it's nothing and not to worry about it, meanwhile it's severely destroying my quality of life.
I can't even get a fucking GI here.
What a joke. I want to die.
Also do you know the best drugs to stimulate SMALL intestine mobility?
I've tried linaclotide and Prucalopride and they barely do anything for me.
Bump for more information
plsthx
can't believe no one has pointed out that suppositories largely bypass the first pass effect
eventually drug metabolites will find their way into the small intestine but only if they're secreted into the bile from the hepatocytes first
Medfag here. If you shove it too deep into your ass will happen and you loose a lot of your substance to metabolization. You can bypass the liver by inserting your drug slightly enough so it gets absorbed by the inferior (!) rectal veins. Then shit's gonna get pumped everywhere through your heart. Part of it will reach your intestine.
Not quite.
The veins that are directly conected with the systemic circulation are both the middle and inferior rectal vein.
The inferior rectal vein drains to the internal pudendal vein.
Then both vein's blood goes to the common iliac vein through the internal iliac one.
It will then go to the heart through the IVC to the heart where it will be distributed to the whole body after it is oxigenated.
So you just have to make sure to not shove it too deep OP, part of it will reach your small intestine without going through your liver.
Btw, Jesus Fucking Christ it took 17 replies and 13 hours for a real answer. This board really needs more decent medfags.
Different drugs have different pharmokinetics. Some are better.
If the drug was given to you by your doctor, and they tell you to take it orally, take it orally.
And yes, some of the drug is will not be metabolized by the liver (first pass) and will go into your bloodstream.
Didn't give the same response?
>This board really needs more decent medfags.
This.
I'm shocked there's almost no medfags/biofags on this website and that there's no health board.
Inferior and middle rectal veins is not the same as only inferior.
Therefore the fact that you should only insert the drug slightly is a technical misconception, as long as you don't shove it up as much as you can it should be alright.
Oh yes. OP, your intestines are not paralysed. If they were you would be posting from a hospital bed.
Then what the fuck is wrong with me
chronic constipation
my intestines feel paralyzed
It's really difficult to burp
mental problems because of this
So thats why colon cancer spreads to the liver
my friend died that way
1. Your intestines are not paralyzed, at least not in a generalized manner.
2. Never self-medicate. Ever. It can potentially fuck you over.
And the best advice I can give you:
3. Go see a doctor, don't gamble with your health.
>1. Your intestines are not paralyzed, at least not in a generalized manner.
Yes, yes they are fuck you.
They're not fully paralyzed but they're working at probably 10% their normal capacity.
>3. Go see a doctor,
Doctors are unbelievably lazy and retarded.
They want to get you out of their office ASAP.
I've been to countless fucking doctors.
Can I ask you guys something?
Taking high doses of Vitamin C used to work extremely well for my constipation 3 years ago but it stopped working and now does NOTHING.
Why would this happen? Why?
Lack of proper cofactors? But isn't it just vitamin C that causes your bowels to go? It doesn't get changed into anything else right?
Is my stomach acid(or my inflamed duodenum) breaking down the vitamin C?
Is it not getting absorbed?
I know your body dumps excess vitamin C into your intestines(which causes you to go) but why isn't mine doing that?
If I took vitamin C enemas, wouldn't it go to my liver and my liver would dump it into my small intestines?
PLEASE HELP because the countless doctors I've been to have done absolutely nothing for me and I've resorted to figuring this out on my own and paying for 3rd party tests. I'm so bloated right now and have chronic fatigue, countless food allergies, anxiety, ocd, panic attacks, itchy as fuck.
Perhaps try magnesium? Google it.
Also, are you on any antihistamines? Too much histamine signaling has been implicated in a variety of psychological illness, like anxiety disorders. Google that too.
>magnesium
Tried it a million times.
Countless forms of it too.
Just gives me gut pain and stomach discomfort.
Vitamin C worked perfectly.
>Also, are you on any antihistamines?
No.
I'm just shotgunning at this point. Have you tried probiotics? Over an average of clinical trials, probiotic administration increased the number of weekly bowel movements by 1.3:
health.harvard.edu
At any rate, I hope you find a solution. That sounds miserable.
>Have you tried probiotics?
Yes, holy shit countless times, countless strains.
Yes, prebiotics too.
They do absolutely nothing.
>At any rate, I hope you find a solution. That sounds miserable.
It's really bad.
Thanks though.
NOTE THAT IT WAS NEVER ONCE, EVER, MENTIONED ANYWHERE THAT VITAMIN C WAS ACTUALLY USED TO TREAT CONSTIPATION!
VITAMIN C
According to Up to Date which we use for our med education:
>Upper limit of intake of Vit C should not exceed 2,000 mg daily
Vitamin C dosage considerations:
>Kidneys
May have some impact in absorption so renal damage can affects absorption
>Liver
Plays no impact in removing Vitamin C from the circulation according to manufacturers.
>When should people take Vit C?
Malabsorption, use in conditions requiring an increased intake (eg burns, wound healing), dietary supplement, treatment of scurvy
>mechanism of absorption
Intestinal absoprtion is basically dependent on how much you take. Unabsorbed Vitamin C goes to the intestine where it is destroyed.
>NOTE THAT IT WAS NEVER ONCE, EVER, MENTIONED ANYWHERE THAT VITAMIN C WAS ACTUALLY USED TO TREAT CONSTIPATION!
But it works for constipation though.
Everyone knows this.
It worked for my constipation for 6 months.
>Unabsorbed Vitamin C goes to the intestine where it is destroyed.
It goes to the intestines where it increases water retention and has a strong laxative effect.
*
-CONSTIPATION-
Treatment:
>Dietary Fibre/bulk-forming laxatives
For example psyllium or methylcellulose taken with water. Other examples include psyllium seed (eg, Metamucil), methylcellulose (eg, Citrucel), calcium polycarbophil (eg, FiberCon), and wheat dextrin (eg, Benefiber).
Prunes worked according to one study.
20 to 35 g/day fibre recommended, you can add 2-6 tablespoons of bran followed by one glass of water to hit that.
IF BULK FORMING LAXATIVES DON'T WORK:
Then trying non bulk forming laxatives:
>Surfactants
Not much evidence supporting this as a good treatment.
>Osmotic agents
Increases water in the intestine, may have some heart/kidney issues.
Examples: PEG – PEG electrolyte solutions (eg, GoLYTELY) and powdered preparations (eg, MiraLAX). One study found that PEG was effective
Synthetic disaccharides – Lactulose. Basically these are sugars that don't get digested and so sit in the intestine and attract the water to them.
Saline - These are your magnesiums. Magnesiums attract water to them in your intestine. Kidney failure may be a complication.
>Stimulants
eg Dulcolax. Evidence that it works in a trial. Taking too much of these can can caused reduced potassium levels, loss of protein through intestine and too much salt in the body. According to Up to Date using these drugs won't cause your intestine to stop functioning normally if you use it for long periods.
Vit C is generally harmless to take according to one of our tutors (a GP) and if there's too much in the blood it can also come out in the urine.
Most constipation treatments except the ones for severe constipation attempt to attract water and retain it there like you said.
Severe constipation treatments are basically liquifying the faeces (Suppositories), breaking the faeces up into little bits (Disimpaction).
Drug treatments can cause more intestinal fluid to be produced (eg Linaclotide), increase bowel movements (Plecanatide) or increase the concentration of the stuff (well, chloride) coming out of the intestine (Lubiprostone) to help attract waterr.
Of the research articles I can find I came across one study relating vitamin C and constipation.
It's a pretty obscure/not especially respected journal apparently in Italian.
>[Rectal administration of sodium ascorbate in constipation]
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
There's also a research study called 'High-dose intravenous vitamin C improves quality of life in cancer patients' that suggests that Vitamin C (but injected into the muscle and diluted with magnesium sulfate) as well as some vitamin c taken by mouth. After 4 weeks of treatment patients reported that their constipation had improved (p
Pharmacology database:
Apparently large quantities of Vitamin C can cause diarrhoea but too much can also cause some crystals to build up in the kidneys.
Vit C can also interact with some drugs (sometimes drugs can compete for receptors and reactions resulting in reduced effect and whatnot). Drugs for bipolar reduces Vitamin C levle.
Vitamin C can also be destroyed during storage and cooking.
Pharm database says nothing about Vitamin C become less effective or being destroyed in a different way after taking it for years user. ;_;
Encyclopedia of toxicology doesn't mention anything about Vitamin C coming out through the intestines although the pharm database apparently did.
It also doesn't mention Vitamin C needing any cofactors or anything for conversion.
Did a bit more reading on the liver and apparently 2/3 of it bypasses the liver.
>Blood from the superior rectal vein
Goes to the liver.
>Middle and inferior rectal vein
Drains into the heart.
This one's a good diagram of the rectal veins. The superior rectal vein goes up on its own to the liver whereas the middle rectal and inferior rectal take their own path right up the spout to the heart.
This is a summary of BMJ's best practice:
Acute (severe)
1. Treat underlying cause/diet + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
If faeces are stuck (impacted): get rid of it
If caused by opoids: treat also with methylnaltrexone
Chronic (ongoing)
If symptoms last longer than 3 months
1. Treat underlying cause/diet + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
2. Osmotic laxatives + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
3. Osmotive laxatives + Stimulant laxatives + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
or
3. linaclotide + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
or
3. lubiprostone + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
or
3. prucalopride + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
None of that works:
Test for dyssynergia:
- if positive biofeedback training with a therapist
- if negative refer to a specialist
>For example psyllium or methylcellulose taken with water. Other examples include psyllium seed (eg, Metamucil), methylcellulose (eg, Citrucel), calcium polycarbophil (eg, FiberCon), and wheat dextrin (eg, Benefiber).
Fiber is terrible and clogs me up hardcore every single time.
>Prunes
Tried. Nothing.
>PEG/Miralax
Tried.
Did nothing.
>Lactulose
Gave me stomach cramps and did nothing else.
>Magnesiums
Just give me intestinal discomfort.
It's like my intestines will fill with water but won't release or empty. It's like they're paralyzed.
>Dulcolax
Works somewhat.
Only empties out the large intestine but I'm still clogged in my small intestine. It doesn't even empty the large intestine fully.
It also caused horrible cramps and made me feel terrible.
I'm telling you, the only thing that worked was high dose C but it stopped working.
WHY?
>and if there's too much in the blood it can also come out in the urine.
But the majority comes out in the stool.
>Linaclotide
Tried it. Barely works. Usually doesn't work.
>Plecanatide
It's another guanylate cyclase-C agonist. Same thing.
>Lubiprostone
Also tried.
Made me cramped and didn't work.
Interesting.
Still doesn't tell me why it worked wonders then just stopped working for me.
>Pharm database says nothing about Vitamin C become less effective or being destroyed in a different way after taking it for years user. ;_;
That sucks.
Thanks for trying though.
Interesting, thanks.
>Chronic (ongoing)
>If symptoms last longer than 3 months
>1. Treat underlying cause/diet + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
>2. Osmotic laxatives + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
>3. Osmotive laxatives + Stimulant laxatives + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
>or
>3. linaclotide + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
>or
>3. lubiprostone + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
>or
>3. prucalopride + lifestyle advice + softeners + prunes
Unfortunately I've tried all of these and they don't work for me. :
We get taught very basic pharmacology for the body becoming resistant to drugs but I'll describe the bit we learned. Might not be relevant to vitamin C, it really depends on how Vit C works.
-
RECEPTOR DESENSITISATION
Say that there's 10 receptors on a cell.
You take a drug and that activates those receptors. After a while, the cell goes, oh fuck I'm being constantly stimulated and in response to this it reduces the number of receptors on the surface to say, 8. It can do this generally because the cell has this sort of floating membrane and it can pinch off bits of it with the receptors and take it into the cell where it can be destroyed.
The diagram on the left shows 'receptor mediated endocytosis' (endocytosis is a fancy word for being taken up back into the cell)
This is one form of receptor desensitisation.
This looks like a power point which covers this in more detail than we get taught.
slideshare.net
Example: if you take heroin, for example, you may take the drug and feel a large effect. If you take it for a long time you will need to take more and more to get the same effect because of this phenomenon. However, different parts of the body can also desensitise at different rates which means that although you might be immune to the pleasure effects the organs might still be quite vulnerable leading to damage.
RECEPTOR RESENSITISATION
Lets say that you have 8 receptor on the cell. Cell goes, 'hmm I used to be stimulated heaps but not anymore (because you've stopped taking the drug for quite a long time)' so it puts 10 receptors on the surface now.
-
Sometimes cells can also do things like pump drugs/chemicals out.
Something is up with my stomach too, OP. Two years ago I woke up with some really bad cramps and ever since then I haven't been able to digest food correctly. I think it must've been some sort of allegory attack. What kind of test can I do to determine what I am allergic too?
If those don't work BMJ basically says that you should ask your doctor.
I'm pretty interested in this area because it kinda affects me too. I believe I got referred onto a specialist of some kind and they got me to take a barium swallow (this lights up the image in white so they can see your intestines quite visibly and see if you've got some weird bowel anatomy) and an MRI. Unfortunately the biggest thing they're looking out for here is probably an obstruction or a tumour.
There are two main tests:
>Skin prick
Best test however some people get a positive even if they aren't allergic.
>RAST (Radio Allergosorbent Test)
Guy I was with said that RAST was extremely inaccurate and expensive for the patient. Some doctors apparently recommend it but it's a blood test that they considered unnecessary and inaccurate. Only as a confirmation.
Said that you'd expect a reaction within minutes to two hours (usually one hour) and if it wasn't within that time it wasn't an allergy. (And if you woke up the next morning it's not an allergy either). Stomach wasn't usually involved but if you are vomiting then perhaps it can be a specific condition that's easily tested for.
this will have make u not hungry but also full: gnc.com
Oh there's also an Oral Food Challenge which is where you sit in hospital and they feed you something but that's reserved for most of the anaphylactic patients.
Okay I kind of knew about this though.
But my absorption to most drugs has gone down considerably. Perhaps there's another reason.
If you're just having constipation due to waste building up in your colon then osmotic agents should have helped you. Go to an enterologist and make him do the ultrasound thingy to see if your food passes through your small intestine normally.
Apparently vitamin C does have a laxative effect, hadn't heard of it before but supposedly it speeds up your digestion, which fits with what I'm suggesting you do.
Also, there have been really decent medfags here but they're either just lurking cause threads are scarce or they just don't visit that often.
Just a coincidence that it worked the first time. Calm down.
a
Have you tried eating curries or other spicy food?
>Just a coincidence that it worked the first time. Calm down.
What's the scientific explanation though.
I need some theories.
That entire 6 months I was farting like crazy and had great cleansing bowel movements daily.
yes
This guy takes 40g of vitamin C a DAY!!
vitamincfoundation.org
and farts like crazy lmao wew