Has anyone read this? Came upon the concept after watching westworld.
>Tldr, Humans up until recently (time of the Iliad) were unconscious automata, who simply responded to commands of voices one part of the brain produced, which they identified as the gods.
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind
Jayden Cox
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Gavin Gray
retarded
Julian Barnes
I've read about it. it's a fun idea but I'm pretty sure it's bullshit.
Aiden Richardson
Yeah I've read it. It's a good book to read. The reasoning for the most part is sound, though a lot of the information he bases it on is obsolete or considered plain wrong today.
If it doesn't interest you after a chapter or so, don't bother with the rest of the book.
IMHO it's a nice thought experiment and reading the book is worth it for that reason alone.
Asher Reyes
I believe it, he made a really solid argument if you actually read the book.
David Butler
>conjecture that can't predict anything
useless
Joseph Powell
Why would claim something like that when he explicitly made a number of predictions featurd prominently in that book? Did you even read it? He predicted there would be a structure in the right hemisphere of the brain that generates auditory hallucinations which is now vestigial and no longer active in most modern brains. This prediction was proven correct; the right hemisphere does in fact have a vestigial structure corresponding to the Broca-Wernicke ares in the left hemisphere. This is the part of the left hemisphere responsible for the production of language. He also predicted this vestigial area would be active in schizophrenics who hear auditory hallucinations. This has also been proven correct.
Kayden Ross
>This is the part of the left hemisphere responsible for the production of language
>unironic materialism
Jason Martinez
I haven't, but it interests me and I've read about it, and my impress of it tells me your tl;dr isn't really a fair description. Only its satirical description. I don't know what effect satire has on you unconsciously as an intellectual deity, but I encourage anyone to read it seriously, and to make whatever adjustments they feel are necessary to current scientific standards, or any such bullshit. It's an inspired work to stimulate the imagination.
>What is now proved, was once only imagined
Dylan Lopez
Kinda pisses me off how smart posts on Veeky Forums, instead of getting any recognition or appreciation, are simply responded to with posts that display the mental level of a 2 year old.
Alexander Gomez
This is brain-dead. Plenty of People all around the World report direct experience pertaining to Divinity today. Speaking of this was commonplace in the West as well up until the "Enlightenment" when the dehumanizing idea of Mental illness was sanctioned by the Government. The number of people allowed to report such experiences without persecution got smaller as time went on, although certain categories, mainly Artists, Soldiers, Clergymen, Rulers, and more recently Athletes, have always been exempt from judgement.
Even today, unless you live in an airtight bubble of Materialist autism, you can regularly hear common People casually speak of hearing God.
I suppose I should also mention the perfect irony of using the word AUTOMATA when attempting to relegate Spirituality to the body.
Charles James
Been reading a bit of Mason & Dixon?
Jordan Mitchell
did you have an aneurysm and randomly hit your shift key when typing that out?
Bentley Ross
OP here, I have skimmed over his arguments and they seem rather weak.
If I recall correctly, he got the hemispheres wrong in terms of language function.
Furthermore, I think there is a base level of conciousness that he does not account for, there was something it was like to be an ancient greek and see the color red, there was a subjective experience, there was qualia or some experience denoted by qualia.
The entire theory can be thrown out by saying that while the concept of conciousness was not part of language prior to a certain point that does not mean no one was concious.
Even now we have difficulty talking about conciousness, but none of us doubt that we are concious, why did Jaynes expect the ancient greeks to be on par?
Gabriel Rivera
>If I recall correctly, he got the hemispheres wrong in terms of language function.
No he didn't.
>qualia
You might not agree with his arguments, but he definitely did address the idea of qualia. He spent a lot of time doing that in the beginning when he goes through his explanation of everything consciousness is not. He points out through a few different examples how what you think is a real picture in your head turns out to just be a strong belief in something that isn't really there on closer inspection. Ultimately he argues consciousness is metaphorical in nature, not some non-physical 'experience' and also not some physical structure. And because it's an abstract fiction, it's not that weird at all to understand how people in earlier times could have existed without it (or non-human animals in current times for example). It's a detailed and subtle argument that I don't expect many to intuit. Only other thing I'll say about it is anyone interested should download a pdf of the book and read through from beginning to end without giving into the kneejerk reaction to shut off your mind because it's so contrary to typical assumptions on this topic.
Jordan Diaz
On a philosophy board
Nathaniel Rodriguez
good post, you've convinced me to read it.
Adrian Martin
the fact that you convinced this user has now convinced me to read it as well
Jeremiah Fisher
The voice of reason. over time observing the casual relations to things and interactions of the world, stored as memories, perhaps is automatically evoked when related situations present themselves, muscle memory of the mind,
I wouldnt think ancient human was so schizophrenc, certainly some of them in some areas, but then I dont know what to think of like other animals that seem so grounded and 'relatively reasonable',
Chase Murphy
the fact that you've convinced these anons to has now convinced me to read it as well
Bentley Long
the fact that you've convinced three anons to read this has convinced me not to read it.
Aiden Robinson
The philology and philosophy of mind is so much more interesting than the neuro-science aspect, so not sure why ppl get so caught up on that.