well here it is. I'm gonna make a separate post for each book to hopefully keep discussion more organized.
here's the PV explanation: >Why not P&V? The P&V methodology: Larissa Volokhonsky, a Russian with weak English, transliterates the text into English word-for-word. Richard Pevear, who does not speak Russian on a conversational level, polishes her English into something more readable, maintaining the "accuracy" of the transliteration. The final product is an accurate transliteration of Dostoyevsky's words into English and is hailed by Russian linguists for its accuracy to the Russian language. Unless you are a Russian academic you wil find that this methodology is stilted, awkward, and leaves much of Dostoyevsky's message lost between culture barriers. Translators like Garnett, McDuff, and especially Ignat Avsey, make the effort to capture Dostoyevsky's message in a context that English speakers can easily understand, rebuilding his works from the ground up in an effort to clarify and not simply regurgitate. Unfortunately there is no consistent edition that collects all four of Dostoyevsky's main novels with the ideal translators, unlike P&V's substantial marketing efforts.
Here's a chart of Veeky Forums approved editions to help guide your search.
(obviously this is all rough-draft and subject to change)
Aiden Martinez
Brothers Karamazov
Norton Critical Editions 2nd Edition Translated by Constance Garnett, edited and revised by Oddo Garnett's renowned translation, edited and revised by Susan McReynolds Oddo Most "literary" translation; the standard by which other translations are measured. Annotated.
Cameron Butler
Oxford World's Classics Translated by Ignat Avsey Moving away from the "transliteration" school of thought, Avsey rewords Dostoyevsky's works into an English-speaking context re-titled THe Karamazov Brothers, demonstrating Avsey's commitment to expressing the "spirit" of Dostoyevsky without compromising linguistic familiarity.
Alexander Rivera
im gonna stop posting images for both because of post wait times
Crime and Punishment
Signet Classics translated by Sidney Monas
Viking Adult translated by David McDuff
(signet version is that red and black one)
Leo Torres
The Idiot
Oneworld Classics Translated by Ignat Avsey
Penguin Classics Translated by David McDuff
Sebastian Roberts
Demons
Penguin Classics translated by Robert Maguire
now i haven't read Demons, but i read a lot on translations of it and went with this one but i dont remember why, that was a long time ago. If anyone has a better version or a second to add to it, that would be great.
Cooper Taylor
Notes from Underground
Penguin Classics translated by Jesse Coulson
I read the PV translation of Notes and thought it was alright until someone here posted passages from their version(if i remember correctly it was Coulson's) and it just blew PV out of the water. But again, if anyone has a second alternative that would be great
David Gomez
here's that edition of C&P that i read and loved. I remember comparing it to Garnett's(and PV) and although her's flowed a bit better prosaically, it was pretty archaic in its diction. Monas also took a bit of an Avsey approach in his methods, the selling point for me was a line i compared in i think Part 2 Chapter 7? the part where Rodia leaves Sonia's home after her father dies and her little sister runs after him to thank him. Rodia asks her to pray for him tonight and it went something like
(Garnett) >"I will pray for you all the rest of my life" she declared hotly PV was something equally stilted in its use of adjectives, and Monas: >"I will pray for you the rest of my life" she promised.
Monas ditched the whole adjective-affair in favor of a verb that, i think, is an indicator of his willingness to breach Dostoyevsky's words in favor of Dostoyevsky's message.
in case anyone was wondering what a mass-market paperback was doing in the group
Easton Torres
so yeah. that's that. subject's open for discussion.
good time for you Magarshack fans to convince us that you aren't contrarian asshats
Thomas Gutierrez
lil bumperino for the chart-making homeboy
Aaron Bell
Quality post, thank you man.
Dominic Howard
I'm not sure what is contrarian about liking Magarshack. Do you mean liking him and disliking McDuff, Avsey, and so on? That would be contrarian I suppose. What I like about Magarshack is that he's something of an 'older' style like Garnett but he did a much better and more careful job. I would probably pick revised Garnett over him, but definitely him over her unrevised work.
Owen Campbell
avsey is GOAT
Andrew Jenkins
Literally nothing wrong with P&V. Try actually reading one of their translations before hating on them.
Oliver Scott
Quality post mate
Xavier Miller
>Karamazov I would add Magarshack, MacAndrew, and McDuff among translations to be well regarded, the first for reasons I mention here , the second for what I say here , and the third as a good recent translation (alongside Avsey, who probably has the edge as exclusive translator of Dostoyevsky). Also I'm curious about the Oddo revision that has (apprently) replaced the Ralph Matlaw revision of Garnett that Oxford World Classics has also published. Is Oddo demonstrably better than Matlaw? I really liked what he did, and I wonder about the reasoning behind the change.
>Notes from Underground I will mention my litmus test for this one, which I often bring up for this title. The translator has to immediately make a very significant decision in translating the word злoй in the first sentence 'I am a _____ man'; the choice sets the tone for how the Underground Man is understood through the rest of the book. Dostoyevsky is dealing with him in psychological/societal terms, so something like 'spiteful' is far better than 'evil', which suggests a moral or religious tone. Most everyone besides P&V go in the direction of the former.
Ayden Johnson
Quality post there, buddy.
Chase Hall
the tl;dr is just learn russian?
Brandon Miller
pseud af
why are you making charts when
1. you obviously don't actually speak russian 2. you haven't even read all of these works, let alone all the translations 3. you just follow Veeky Forums memes
kill yourself my pseud friend.
Jace Jenkins
Quality post here guys, I r8 8/8.
Easton Jackson
>its a P&V are shit let me shill crappy Penguin editions instead thread
Ian Reyes
they are fucking trash.
oliver ready for c&p currently reading kyril zinovieff and jenny hughes for notes from underground
keep in mind, i have both P&V for both these: i abandoned P&V 300 pages in for ready and finished notes from underground, but i'm re-reading it under alma classics
James Gray
bumping this thread
i wont let this thread die, OP
Angel Cook
This is really low effort, and it tries too hard to shill for shitty quality editions.
P&V are good. For TBK, McDuff is also a great translation.
Blake Campbell
I am not OP, but I don't know why I bother trying to help with things like this when there are always contrarians around here who criticize everything just for the sake of dragging everything down to their level. Thank you OP for working on this and thanks to those providing a positive contribution
Benjamin Brown
> ITT: A bunch of fat degenerates who have never read Dostoevsky attempt to ruin the only good thread on lit by regurgitating memes like the stupid pseuds they are.
Please go back to your meme threads.
Julian Lee
i'm back. I'm surprised the chart guy hasn't dropped in yet. Anyways thanks for the bumps, friends. I can only do this at school because I don't have the internet at home
There's a couple guys that claim Magarshack as the best translator sometimes. Which would have been a solid claim decades ago, but newer translations and revisions have improved since then.
Contribute or shut up. I never said P&V were bad translations, I said they were awkward and stilted in comparison, which they are, and that they are literalists, which they are.
If you want to make an argument for P&V then post passages to make your case.
Thanks, I only chose two(or one) translations per book to keep the focus narrow. Obviously that will alienate other translations that are well regarded, but that isn't to downplay their merit. Maybe we can add their names in a list so people don't think they need to replace an edition they already own.
Parker Campbell
I wouldn't say he's the overall best translator either. But specifically in terms of translations that feel more like the writing contemporaneous with the original works (as opposed to having a fresher and more modern feel) Magarshack is well worth attention
Sebastian Edwards
I don't disagree, but the purpose of the chart is to provide a couple editions of each of Dosto's novels for people who want to read his work without having to start new threads asking what everyone thinks of every translation.
Caleb Young
SOMEONE JUST TELL ME WHICH TRANSLATOR IS THE BEST REEEEE
Connor Sullivan
Is Demons worth it? I've read notes, C&P, the idiot, the brothers Karamazov and house of the dead but I've heard Demons is considered the worst of his major works.
Ryder Ward
I personally think it's worth it. I don't think it's his worst either. It gets a bit boring in the middle section but pays off in the end.
Jacob Parker
Or ... you know, just read the P&V versions.
Daniel Gutierrez
English isnt even my native language should i still read books by dostoyevsky in english or stick to german?
Juan Price
Have you read multiple translations? The Dante guy at least provided a reference passage.