Does Veeky Forums really believe the "plot doesn't matter" meme?

Does Veeky Forums really believe the "plot doesn't matter" meme?

Yes

It matters if you're a casual reader. When you want to go more in depth you don't just let the prose wash over you and form actually begins to matter more than plot.

So you believe narrative is irrelevant to a novel while the prettiness of prose is meant to be somehow less superficial?

Shakespeare solved the "narrative" problem so yes

Plot matters a lot, but some writers tend yo just focus on that and leave aside characterization, cohesive imagery, etc etc. Plot should be a vehicle for that.

Of course you have plebs like who disregard it in favor of abstractions like "prose" and "form", when they are all equally important, and crafting a good plot is as demanding, if not more, than writing "good prose" or "form" (whatever that means).

Read Borges's prologue to Bioy Casares's "The Invention of Morel".

What the fuck does that even mean?

Shakespeare was incredible at narrative, I don't know where this board's meme that his plays are just a vessel for the language came from

If plot doesn't matter then why don't you just read a phone book?

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people who read for plot actually read for epic plot twists

I'd argue that no one reads for the plot, they read for how the plot is done. If you look at xianxia or world transfer novels it's an internal monologue of the main character trying to get better at life with the powers he has. That's the real plot, not that he has to go kill the Seven Dragons Purple King or whatever the fuck.

the opposite of what thinks it was supposed to mean

>Characterisation

Literally a meme, and even more of a meme than plot. The current trend for having 'realistic' characters at the expense of actual deeper symbolic meaning is killing literature.

It's not that plot doesn't matter. It's that there is often more to a work of literature than simply what happens in it (e.g. themes, morals, messages, not to mention symbolism, technique, and satire).

A good way to look at it is from Aristotle's poetics.
in order of importance we have
Plot: the events and arrangement of dramatic action
Character: the people of the play
Thought: meaning of the play
Diction: the words used to tell the story
Music: All heard sound
spectacle: everything seen. special effects.


Not a clear translation from play to literature but it's a good stepping off point.

Way I look at it is that books are often remembered for how well they implement a meaningful theme or message into an original and cohesive story. Cohesive doesn't mean easy to understand, but something that can be understood.

take "a separate Peace" for example as a bad story. it has a unique theme and a good set up, but it drops the ball becasue the plot is not constructed well enough so that the theme and the events in the plot work together and make sense.

out of nowhere, the secondary character suddenly dies. There was a thematic meaning to it, but it didn't work well within the context of the story

The plot is as important as every other tangible part of a story. However, in the case of something worthwhile, what is meant to be understood by the time the story is finished being told is what's important and that's usually an idea much larger than a simple resolution of the plot.

weak

He didn't even fucking say that.

See, if you read for than just the plot, you would know what he was saying.

Obviously it matters, the argument is that it's not the only thing that matters, I'd say that good writing>good plot

It's because characterization is great for movies and tv shows.

I have never read something more pretentious or self-absorbed.

If you are a casual reader, you can't recognize when a book with decent prose is marred by a plot that absolutely ruins a book. If you are a casual reader, you aren't analyzing key details about structure and character development. Pretending to that you are some empty shell for simple aesthetic choice of words to "wash over you" is lame as hell and also makes you stupid.

There is poetry in words, there is poetry in plot, there is poetry in dialogue, there is poetry in character development.

A piece of fiction is always about the whole, and for you to appreciate the whole you must learn to analyze all forms that take place in a piece of fiction.

The prettiness of the prose is the most important thing to me, I do not care about the plot.

It's just like women, I only sleep with intelligent women and I disregard their look.

>you must learn to analyze all forms that take place in a piece of fiction

So yeah. Form trumps everything.

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What you have to say trumps how you say it, waste of quads

Thank you user.
/Thread

Charcterization does not mean having "realistic" characters, where the fuck did you get that? Go read a book, you waste of space.

This. Once you're done with your pseud "prose over plot" phase, you go back to preferring plot.

Based Hemingway user saves /thread

This desu. This is more important to me than either plot or prose.