How memes wil look like in 50 years?

Not familiar with that subsect of anthropology but maybe memetics would direct attention towards infection potential.

Eddie Limonov was like way ahead of his time, man

>memetics would direct attention towards infection potential.
Oh Gott, it is one of those persons who thinks memetics as proposed by Dawkins is more than just semantics and unnecessary reductionism.
I think 'infection potential' can not be explained but cognitive biases might play a role.

But, you know, I do think that memes have some overlap with propaganda.

Kek

>50 years
>implying they aren't doing it right now

>But, you know, I do think that memes have some overlap with propaganda.
That's the whole idea but memes are especially self propagating.

We already have algorithms that can determine what you will buy at WalMart by your demographics profile. I don't see why this couldn't be extrapolated to the introduction of certain self-propagating ideas to make someone's behavior more conducive to some product or political ideology. This is happening today but it's implementation isn't so exact because we do not yet have a sufficient data set or computing power.

When Debord talks about the 'sovereign commodity' I picture it as a huge vaporwave-looking eldritch sphere that sails across the universe assimilating entire planets by hijacking their native economies and meme ecosystems.

>We already have algorithms that can determine what you will buy at WalMart by your demographics profile.
I am not that impressed by algorithms. They work 90 percent of time, because most people fit more or less into a stereotype. But let me not fall for the fallacy that I am a special snowflake (I am of course, you know, but most likely overestimate it).

Still, the reason I am not that impressed is that I've been getting weird advertisements and recommendations on book sites (such as goodreads).

It does get things right, but lumps me into stereotypical demographics once I pick or click or whatever and so on and so on something outside of my demographics.
>self propagating.
How are they self-propagating? They do not impose themselves on us and easily die out if they have no human carriers.

Maybe "self propagating" is a term with too much semantic baggage. High infection potential.

As far as inaccurate ad algorithms, the curve-fit will occur in your lifetime. Ad companies don't fully understand how to effectively conduce idea propagation. This is where memetics enters.

>High infection potential.
But isn't that looking at the wrong thing? I suppose you could argue that it doesn't matter, but I would not frame it as a meme having infection potential but humans being suspectible to certain memes (symbols, ideas and jokes, combination of them) because of their personal characteristics (such as group they belong to, want to belong to, developed and hard-wired personality, pure ideology in general, life experiences and so on and so on).
>As far as inaccurate ad algorithms, the curve-fit will occur in your lifetime.
I am sure they will improve, but have a feeling they will still go with generalities instead of specific rarities (for lack of better word).
>Ad companies don't fully understand how to effectively conduce idea propagation.
But I claim that you cannot, because you use the reductionist approach of thinking that the whole (idea propagation) can be reduced to parts (the meme).

Both Stuart Kauffman (that was another of my post) and Nassim Taleb talk about the failure of forecasting. One is a complexity scientist, the other relies heavily on that field for his ideas. Just examples.

"High infection potential" is exactly what you described but compacted into fewer words. The meme taps into the zeitgeist to maximize propagation.

>But I claim that you cannot, because you use the reductionist approach of thinking that the whole (idea propagation) can be reduced to parts (the meme).
Companies are doing this right now with brand recognition, some more effective than others. Notice how many idiots vigorously defend certain products online because of brand loyalty. If we didn't utilize reductionism then humans would accomplish nothing.

>If we didn't utilize reductionism then humans would accomplish nothing.
Sure it can work but not for everything. It has also gone wrong such in the case of iatrogenics.
Anyway bedtime for me. Did enjoy this thread thanks for it (if it was you).

Just thinking of the layers of irony some memes will be behind makes me shiver

just think of stupid shit like 'succ' we have now but it only gets worse

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Thanks for the conversation.

fucking finally!

I've made a couple threads on Kauffman on Veeky Forums and Veeky Forums, but no one has ever (zero times) replied to them
Why on earth is he not more well known? I think he is pretty lit, especially on the theoretical and philosophical side of things

cucc

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bump

readymade globalization memes

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damn

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Memes were a field of study prior to the internet getting up and running proper

Christianity and Communism can both be understood in terms of memes as analogous cultural vehicles to the biological gene. Each finding success in its mutability time and time again to serve the purposes of new cultural "niches"

oh god its one of those people who throws up crass low-rent academic buzz words like reductionism and expects to be taken seriously

MEme Oc
Once in a time very much like our own, in a place similar to here, and among st mortals much like ourselves, sat a boy on a roof staring longingly at the moon.

Not as to say he wriggled his eyebrows in a fashion reminiscent of mating snakes, nor cooing like a koala in a 10 story eucalyptus tree. These things may have been happening, but these frivolous details merely detract from the thoughts enlightening the synapses of thought propelling through his mind.

“Aye baby, lemme get sum fuk” droned the imbecile in a mantra iambically congruent with the content of a Tranculo verse

“Alas you jest oh fair luna, may thee not remove thine scarf and let down your glorious weave?” quoted eloquently this buffoon so brash, speaking as his vocal chords are merely speakers relaying audio bellied of a million and one sources.

This boy was named Mulch, because on the bed he was born the floor had a slight lean and he took a mad shit. Said shit flowed and through his parts of curly hair sat a poop of the murkiest green and his father in great surprise guffawed and said his hair appeared to be filled with algae; and alas, the name.

I think memeing in advertising is close.

They still don't really understand it although its right in front of them.

They understand branding. They understand things "going viral" but its hit and miss for them.

Their coping strategy for this is copying memes into adverts which doesn't work and they don't know what that is either.

Its interesting watching them klutzing about with it all.

advertising is by nature fundamentally dishonest.

Advertising's golden age was somewhere between the 50s and 90s, the era of print media and tv. But things are moving too fast nowadays. By the time the ad agencies get their hands on a meme it's likely it has already been subverted and inverted thousands of times, anything even remotely resembling meaning long exhausted. Also, it doesn't help that memes created during the last 6 years or so, even the manifestly silly ones, tend to contain at least a shade of late-capitalist angst and cynicism. ie. Pepe the frog or the general trend towards 'ironic' memes. Memes have become a folk art expression of the sense of distrust people feel towards images and mass media discourse.

Self loathing and alienation are not a good material for ads, which are meant to present an ideal world to which we can all aspire. Advertising aims to create a 'meaningful' emotional connection between consumer and product. That explains why products are now being marketed as somehow 'socially relevant', as if consumption was by itself a political act.

youtube.com/watch?v=DJa3VN_8FAE

>you're supposed to be creative guys

If we were "creative," aka talented, why would we hide our identity on an image board and post content for free?

Noice.
Hopefully we'll be able to discuss him in the future.

Search for parallel universe memes on Facebook

Memes/emojis/etc ultimately boil down to images: a medium in which a lot of information can be conveyed quickly/efficiently and with a surprising degree of accuracy.

Take pic related, for example. 99%+ of people would interpret Pepe's expression to be one of condescension, without a single word of text. Imagine the time/effort it would take to convey this same sense of condescension (relatively speaking) as opposed to posting a single image in half a second.

IF we interpret 'image' to mean 'character', however, then we must conclude that Asians were/are the original memers. Look at Chinese Characters/Japanese Kanji/etc: are these not the original memes? Do they not fulfil the same function? A single character can that signify a long word, or something very specific, or a complicated concept, or a whole range of things (via different meanings depending on context) and so on?

What we are witnessing, with memes/emojis/etc, is the transition of language from words alone, to words and symbols. This is the next logical step of any advanced language: and it is understandable that we are only making this transition, in any meaningful sense, now.

>This is the next logical step of any advanced language:
>advanced language:
I have never read any linguistics.jpg

>There's no such thing as an advanced language

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out, Chumpsky.

but in what form memes can take in a relative near future?
i mean, i never understood the dat boi meme, i just can't see how they can evolve.
let's take a dystopian viewpoint, how governments and/or corporations can use viral memes? are they gonna be more logical or more illogical?

>Why on earth is he not more well known?
Maybe not to the public, but in both evolutionary biology and complex systems science I have came across him.
I found many reviews saying that his writing is not good. I think it is fine, though sometimes I don't follow Kauffman, but that is because I am a brainlet.

I see you have the newest book "Humanity in a creative universe". What is it about? What is your verdict?

I have Reinventing the Sacred in my possession and read it, I've read "At home in the universe", still need to finish "The origins of order" and lastly "Investigations" is on my to read list.

>>There's no such thing as an advanced language
So what makes a language "advanced"? From what I know language may become simpler, but not more advanced.

>Not even memeing.

andy kaufman in the wrestling match
yeah yeah yeah yeah

arxiv.org/pdf/1610.03452v1.pdf

Just how in the good god damn is this literature?

the government will not control memes, memes will control the government

look around you, it's already starting to happen

>Just how in the good god damn is this literature?
Check'd.
It would fit Veeky Forums better, but that is ignoring the fact that you can't predict this kind of shit: it is pseudoscience that should be on /b/ really.

They will be even more minimalistic and difficult to understand to outsiders.
There will be more and more board and site specific memes, cultures will split further.
Memes will also be more difficult to trace back to its origin.
The 'no step on snek' meme is a good example for this minimalism, another example is the character ≥ ,
which represents the happy merchant.

Twister and Risk are both shit though.

Can we play Heroquest instead?

/b/? are you for real? it's just too confusing and shitty down there

>/b/? are you for real? it's just too confusing and shitty down there
I was shitting a bit, and sure even if you cannot predict things how they are, speculating how isn't a full waste.
I do dislike people who claim they can predict and aren't speculating, or people who simply fantasize the way things ought to be.

Consider speculative biology, it could lead to interesting things about living species and so on, but whenever I see it on the internet people do not use morphology or the skeleton, evolutionary biology, as a foundation for their speculations.

No what they do is simply fantasising without any foundation in reality (or little of it) about something they like and how it ought to be and call that speculative.

If I see another person speculating that humanoid species are inevitable I will shoot my brains out, unless someone would say: with primates around there is a chance, perhaps a high probability, that another humanoid could arise.

yeah, i agree, but speculating it's fun.
is tryin' to predict how memes will look like in the future so much different from interlace and teleputers in infinite jest, for exampe?