Thought experiment

Einstein said spacetime is like a fabric. I disagree, and think it's more like a fluid. But I need some help working out the details.

First, let's toss out the ol' trampoline/bed sheet version of Einstein's thought experiment. We're working on three axis here, and that would mean the sheets would have to create an infinitesimally small lattice which to me seems too solid. Instead, let's think of it as clear oil in a sealed tank.

This tank is filled to the very brim, 100% full of this oil. Without opening the tank, so as not to let ANY oil or pressure escape the system, let's introduce a sponge into the tank. The sponge will quickly absorb much of the oil immediately around it, while displacing just a little and raising the pressure. Now, let's remove that sponge and place a rock into the tank of oil. The rock will not absorb nearly as much as the sponge, displacing more and raising the pressure much higher.

We can imagine the two examples as different concentrations of matter in space, where the sponge is something like a planet (porous), and the rock is more like a black hole (too solid for space to permeate).

What I'm struggling with is this: Forgetting the walls of the imaginary tank, would the pressure of the oil be highest where it meets the sponge/rock? If so, I suppose that this pressure is what we feel as "gravity".

If this is true, that would mean that gravity is literally the density of space. Also that a black hole is just matter devoid of it.

Thank you.

Other urls found in this thread:

arxiv.org/pdf/0905.4352.pdf
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

See
arxiv.org/pdf/0905.4352.pdf

Thanks much, I'll give this a read! Though maybe not until later tonight, seems pretty in-depth.

If you think this extremely light and low-math treatment is "pretty in-depth", then you have no business coming up with theories about the nature of spacetime.

Excuse me, but it's more in depth than my idea was. And the very fact that I've come up with this idea not having read anything similar to it before means I'm on the same general track which I believe shows I have at least a *little* room to talk about it. I just meant it's a lot of reading for me right now as I am busy. Please, take your negativity and gtfo my internet.

Also just to point out your ignorance, not everyone in the physics community was a math wizard. Einstein had a friend do most of his complex calculations.

>Forgetting the walls of the imaginary tank, would the pressure of the oil be highest where it meets the sponge/rock?
Wouldn't the pressure be the same in the whole tank ?

Einstein said spacetime is like a fabric. I disagree, and think it's more like a dick, or maybe like a feminine penis.

That's what I'm wondering, whether the displacement is strongest at the source.

Okay so I have a 3 dimensional tank full of oil. There is sphere ('loose sponge') whose mass is 1 kg, and sphere ('tighter sponge') whose mass is 10 kg, both of equal size.

According to traditional laws of physics, these sponges will move towards each other due to gravity. 'Loose sponge' moves more (because it gains more acceleration being lighter).

How in the oil-tank thought-experiment the absorption/compression of oil the sponges do cause them to move closer towards each other given time?

If the pressure is highest at the source of displacement, one would be able to deduce that it is the oil itself moving the matter. So long as they were close enough.

What does it mean? Did they figure out black holes ? Did they figure out gravity?

Haven't read it yet but it seems to correlate with what I'm thinking.

If you got the math power level to understand it please give a brief description what the paper trys to explain

Thank you

The operative word being "like". Pretending that spacetime is anything more than formalism modeling nature belies the puerile musings of a PBS viewer.

Both of you are trolls lol, go away unless you plan to contribute something useful.

lay off the popsci kid

None of you have disproved my idea yet. Until I see that, I will continue to tout it as a possible theory no matter what slander or mud you sling.

Did you just point to a 46 page physics paper and say "Summarize that?"

If you're so smart, you do it lol

Also you really didn't prove anything...

oops wrong number ^

>friend
Einstein also had a PhD in physics. Do you?

I am younger than he was when he got it, user. I still have two years.

why are people comparing space time with man made materials? It's more complex than that isn't it?

>says oil and sponge was man made
lol

>HURR IM JUST LIKE EINSTEIN

No. You're just like a million other morons who think they've "solved" physics, and for the same reason: Duning-Kruger Effect.

isn't sponge man made?

what user saying is that the space time is more complex than your everyday materials

They allow internet in nurseries now?

Clearly I have the cognitive ability to formulate theories that fall into place well enough. Who are you to say I'm of lesser ability? Why, because I'm on Veeky Forums? Suck it up kid, if you don't like what I said take your bullshit to the press because as I said earlier, slinging mud at me is useless. You, as the others in your position, have not falsified anything I've said here with your statement. *You* look like the one of lesser ability, kid, as your argument has nothing to do with the theory being discussed. You've only tried to call someone out, and that makes you look like a bag of smashed dicks.

If that were the case, Einstein himself would not have been able to perform many of his own thought experiments. We use everyday materials to PROBE space-time... So yeah that doesn't really make sense.

Let's say the spacetime is indeed like a fluid but what are being absorbed by the sponge? your mom's grool XDDDDDDDXFCFCFDXDDXDCFDDDXDXDXDD #FUNNYMOMENTS

Dear god, this fucking website.

Space itself, idiot.

maybe there's a point to it? To make some sense for the human brain. Just shut the fuck up human as I'm a far superior species than you and take your shitty "physics" logic and shove it somewhere

Then gtfo? You're not asked to stay

but space isn't a matter. How can one absorb space?

Oh wow we have a special one here, what are you then AHAHAHAHA

Does space not exist between particles of matter? The oil is just a metaphor. The space already exists, it doesn't have to be absorbed.

you are not disapproving einstein's but rather having a different point of view. Try denying the spacetime fabric then I'll take you seriously kiddo

wouldn't the pressure be equal every where and it only would only have more pressure around the objects when they are first placed in but then it would equal out

>Fabric
>flat sheet
If you want it to be a fabric, that means you'd have to have a fabric for each Planck length at *least*. Seems a bit cumbersome to me. Also, if it's a fabric lattice, how do you displace it without ripping it somewhere? Like, on a solar scale.

That was the question I asked *first*. Whether the pressure would be equal, or focused at the point where it interacts with a mass.

if I did tell you what I am, your underdeveloped so called brain won't even aceept it. Just do more of your shitty delusional and come out with stupid theory. We are laughing at you since Adam choked on a fruit

Your grammar is TERRIBLE you know....

One would think a being of higher intelligence than I would understand English a *little* better?...

well if space behaves like a fluid like you propose then the pressure would be equal everywhere (that is if that is how a fluid actually behaves)

I don't know enough fluid dynamics to answer that question on my own. It's why I posted the idea, for help completing that bit. I have a mathematician friend who seems to think a closed system applies pressure the most where interference occurs.

I'm sorry for not using your english "language" properly. Your language system is fucked since the beginning. Don't tell me my grammar is terrible as I have no intention on fixing my "grammar" any time soon. I hope "order 66" will be execute any time soon. Just remember, we live among you.

Your "idea" is laughably stupid, as you would know if you weren't so stupid yourself. I'll give you a clue: When people say "spacetime is like a fabric", that's what we call a METAPHOR. Spacetime ISN'T a fabric, that's just a simple way to explain it to stupid people (like you).

You're a delusional idiot and should be banned to cure the cancer.

I don't know much about fluid dynamics either, I'm going off of intuition so I could be wrong

>I don't know enough fluid dynamics to answer that question on my own
/thread and read more faggot

So could I, that makes two of us

Neither do you apparently so gtfo unless you have useful info.

don't call me delusion, your knowledge of the universe is a delusion. The more days I have to live among you humans, the more I fucking hate it

kys

it's like saying "I have an idea how to make a pen but don't know what ink is"

such an intelligent statement to make. Oh dear human please ask for absolution before it's too late

"Also, I don't know what capillary action is, nor do I know what writing and drawing are"

if you don't even know how fluid works, why would you even make such statement? This might be a better thread if you just cancel out the disagreeing part

>he thinks his ideas are worth shit without mathematical formulation

y'all still haven't given me any reason not to continue thinking about this idea, and I'm going to bed now. Nice chat, fags.

To get an answer, idiot. That's how people learn, with questions. And none of you shitposters provided the answer so you must all be as stupid as I am. And that's an *aspect* of fluid I fail to understand. Broaden your viewpoint lol

>Einstein ...
>.. I disagree

People aren't allowed to disagree in science anymore?

Gotta love how arrogant mathletes are about their own self importance.

I once briefly entertained the thought that the reason gravity works the way it does is because of the electrons in everything constantly being attracted to the protons in everything else, because my 8th grade mind likened protons and electrons to behaving like magnetic poles towards each other.

Large masses have large amounts of stationary protons, and electrons being able to move freely between atoms would naturally try to get closer to things with overly positive charge, and be repelled by masses with overly negative charges the same way magnet poles of the same polarity would repel each other

And here is my dumb ass 8th grade theory on how gravity works and how antigravity might work

as dumb as it is, it has manage to stay with me all these years

So tell me how retarded my theory is so I can finally put it to rest

Liquids spread their pressure evenly. It's a bad comparison OP. You're mathematician friend is a dum-dum.

That's already accounted for by electric dipoles- your thought pattern isn't wrong, as electrostatic forces depend on what you're describing, but that doesn't account for gravity itself.

The experiments done to show masses having force on each other regardless of electric dipoles are very rigorous, and essentially rule out the possibility of free flowing charge changing the result by more than an insignificant amount.

If your theory is correct that gravity acts more like a liquid then doesn't it mean that the universe is collapsing inwards but when but the black holes are added into the equation they make the universe denser thus making it expand . so is gravity created due to the universe expanding and collapsing, like ripples in the tank you said about

>...your thought pattern isn't wrong
>The experiments done... ...essentially rule out the possibility of free flowing charge changing the result by more than an insignificant amount.
Ah, thanks for that.
At least my 8th grade self wasn't as stupid as I thought
it's one thing to have a stupid theory
it's another to have a theory plausible enough to warrant testing by educated people

>I disagree with Einstein
good luck with that, faggot

The effective charge of say a planet is effectively neutral as for every proton there is an electron. So if that were the case thing's wouldn't move generally as they attract as much as they repel. Also it doesn't account for gravity in chargeless particles like neutrinos.

Why should you stop thinking about it ? And what is the question of your thread? What is it you want to know? Also the paper that has been linked seems to be pretty close to what you described.

You moron. It doesnt matter what the medium spacetime is most like is. You arent saying anything different than Einstein did. Fabric is just an easy way to describe 3 dimensional space in an easy to observe 2 dimensional plane. Nobody intelligent ever thought space time was actually like fabric, its just the easiest way to visualize it. Your fluid is literally the exact same concept with a different name. Kill yourself my man.

Hes right. Fluid pressure is equal everywhere inside said fluid, with an increase in pressure at the bottom of a vessel because of gravity. In a zero g environment fluid pressure is equal everywhere in any given tank. If some mass suddenly popped into existence inside the tank the pressure around it would increase temporarily until the shockwave, traveling at the speed of sound, reached the outside edge of the tank, causing pressure to become equal throughout the entire tank again.

Matter is like oil and spacetime is more like water