When did you grow out of Theism?

a true patrician

>molecule
a true plebeian

There haven't been any good atheist intellectuals since the N-God desu.

Not the same as "atheist," though. Being a deist does not make one a "theist," user.

This tbqh. My boy Soren can help you out OP.

meant atom. I'm just as dumb as the tattoo guy, I gues

Burden of Proof.

Faith if a load of shit.

It's on the same level as pointing a laser-pen into the sky trying to signal aliens, or contacting dead relatives with your mind.

m'lady

>he still works within the realm of 'proof' and 'truths'

you are so fucking level 1

I started really looking at the history of Christianity and how it was handled throughout history, and I came to realize that it was all just bullshit that lasted way longer than it should have.

It started as an offshoot of Judaism (a religion that only applied to Jews) and eventually became an excuse for the Pope and other rulers to assert baseless authority over others.

It's a damn racket that humanity is better off leaving behind for good.

Same here. My field is logic and computability. I've become much more agreeable to certain weak theistic claims (when you strip them of any cultural dressing, e.g. god is a bearded man in the sky)

>replaced clean aesthetic trifunctional symbol with an ugly, meaningless image of a monkey

>Wake up sheeple!!!1!!

>OB1uHzb.gif

>odds are we live in a simulation
Let's say we don't

>SOMETHING created the nothingness we came from
>we call that God
>theist are fucking retarded as the son of god nor god ever lived on earth. no way no how
So, if we don't assume simulation, then we came from "nothing" which no matter how many levels you go up, it had to start by something/someone. So there is a "God" in the sense that there is a "creator" of things. But to assume he has any say or though of us is insane. Literally insane. Those that think a man like God has created us and watches us for eternity with bated breath are absolute morons.

>occams razor
says that we evolved over billions of years of chance and being in a "goldilocks" planet. Which is something that happens from time to time in an infinite universe.

I actually grew out of anti theism and into traditionalism. Militant secularism is itself a modernized variant of the Abrahamic meta-meme, on its Anglo-Protestant, radical democratic taxonomic branch, whose specific tradition is anti-traditionalism. The clamorous atheism of The God Delusion represents a protective feint, and a consistent upgrade of religious reformation, guided by a spirit of progressive enthusiasm that trumps empiricism and reason, whilst exemplifying an irritable dogmatism that rivals anything to be found in earlier God-themed strains

I'll have a nicer filename for you next time user. Nice digits.

You write like shit. Stop trying to sound intelligent. The trick to ACTUALLY being smart is to explain things without sounding like an asshole.

And it has E=mc^2 on it so you know he cares about SCIENCE!

Ever notice how there's a certain kind of person who will get a tattoo rather than actually caring and learning about what his tattoo is of?

Around when I was 4. It doesnt take a genious to see grownups start getting stupid when you begin asking stuff about god and praying never worked wenn I wanted so... it was just naturally intuitive to conclude it's all bullshit....
Later I learned all the historic and cultural significance of theism and its foundation in psychology andtribal sociology , but ever since 5 I knew it is all a huge steaming pile of shit

>that disgusting atomic model
>implying this man actually understands mass energy equivalence
>implying he knows what the bohr model is
>implying he can even read that musical notation
baka desu

I converted a few years ago, after being raised with little to no religious influence, and swallowed up basically all the theology and shit I could. A few years later, I'm glad I went through that experience, but short of some critical piece/s of evidence or undeniably mystical experience, to force myself into belief would be intellectually dishonest. No disrespect to Christians, I have an appreciation for the religion now, and investigating it has given me a firm grounding in the history of philosophy and helped develop my critical thinking skills. I will still do my part to destroy the influence of Christian slave morality, however :^)

and boy did you deliver.

This is like addressing the topic through it's ass... only observing a stirred surface that has little to do with the actual process involved.
Like counting proliferating cells in a petri dish that u've left outside the lab through a broken microscope, where you have to hold the lenses in both hands, while balancing on a pogo stick

>But to assume he has any say or though of us is insane. Literally insane. Those that think a man like God has created us and watches us for eternity with bated breath are absolute morons.
Ironically, you're ascribing human limitations to God. An all-powerful, all-seeing being would not have to be concerned about where his attention is directed, since there is no shortage of attention of his to be occupied. Only humans need to be concerned with 'important' things, because given the limited faculties we have we prioritise.

What bothers me is there is hardly any consensus on the deffinition of this so called god concept.
Lets just skip all the moral bullshit and historical interpretations get straight to the farthest point.
God=existence itself. (Lets also add anti-existanceas a part of existence in the mix too)

Why do we exist and observe a world that we take part of?

If we could throwa code into existance by making it self awarewould that make us God?

I dont think any modern organised religion will be able to even speculate on those matters, because they not only had a different purpose : not to answer those questions but to prepare you to live your life with the answer they fabricated and that almost always has nothing to do with the phylosophical and logical reason, but all to do with morality and how to make you happier and those around you.

That is why religions concern themselves with death so much, cause it is the unseen part, the antiexistence which fits neatly into the omni potent god concept consisting of both.
This is the natural way religion evolved...through our understanding of logic... binding action and consequence and atributing the yo an outside forse when not in our control.

How is by any means WRONG, motherfucker?
Religious.... not spiritual oragnostic or theist or deist or whatever...
Would you ever be a friend with a trully religious person?
A devoult muslim?
I don't think so!

What are you rambling on about? How do you define 'religious' and why wouldn't we be friends with them?

In non retard languge:
lets gradually reform the church, cause its contrast of old dogmas clashes good with the urge to change and democratise.
You my man, are a pussy atheist, what peopke call an agnostic

>lets gradually reform the church, cause its contrast of old dogmas clashes good with the urge to change and democratise.
terrible idea

Have you met a true believer. Do you have any idea how retarded religious people are..
...and what does religious mean?
To follow a specific spiritual tradition.....

I have, I think. I started going to church a few years ago, but I stopped. They didn't seem particularly 'retarded', compared to the average person.

Not to believe and question and gorm your own view of existence but to take the ready madetale about the human god and his son or the bloodthirsty gas cloud that insites fear and needs total submission

Music, monkeys, brains, questioning, atoms, Saturn, space, relativity.

What do all these things have in common?

God created them.

Christianity predates Judaism by several centuries. Judaism was only codified in about AD 300 when the Talmud was written down. The idea that Judaism is somehow the original, purer orthodoxy from which Christianity derived is just something kikes claim to delegitimize Christianity. The Judaism of today has nothing in common with the religion of the ancient Hebrews.

>tfw nihilism is the only logical conclusion
>tfw even that is limited by the human understanding and perception

This.

What are you rambling on about? Do you have any idea how retarded the teachings of most religions are.... eat this, dont eat that, dont make sex in this and that way, be kind, be chill, give the ither cheek, be just..but dont go take any other religious teaching cause those suck,. And bla bla bla bla... let's all go to churches to have our moral compasses checked.... what a load of crap... that is what religious means , idiot!
Apart from a cultural tradition or an exploration of the metaphysical, I dont see how else religion can have a valid meaning in our lifes nowadays. ... it's an anachronistic set of law codes and moral dogmas, based on stupid stories

You're dead right. Don't listen to those telling you to dumb things down.

>believing that a man came back from the dead
>based on 2000-year-old eyewitness testimony

deism is reasonable to an extent but actual religion is too much entirely. it compels no one; you have to WANT to believe it.

>not every believer is a learned theologian! that means religion is wrong!
>praying isn't a magic "give me nice things" button

Do you think that you maybe bypassed logical thought on your way to godlessness?

>occam's razor

Occam's Razor would imply that God exists

How did you find your way here?

most atheists come out like this, I did too, but I chose not to be a retard and learn about theology before making my mind. Divine comedy had a great influence on me studying philosophy/theology too.

What bothers me the most is this, though: for atheists, christians are stupid plebs that are too dumb for """""science""""" and that atheists always have logic, reason and knowledge in their arguments, however, ironically, 95% of atheists haven't hold 1 book related to the subject.

>yea, we atheists are very smart, not me tho, I don't need it because I am already redpilled enough

>not reconciling your understanding of cosmology with broadly deist and gnostic views to arrive at a hybrid quantum-mystic gnosis

get on my level plebs

>heisenberg
POTTERY

No, I'm telling you that since my childhood, I knew lies existed and I also instinctively knew this whole religion thing is one of those lies.

Praying didn't work. Kids and grownups around would make such outrageous claims about the bearded man in the sky and the angels and heaven and hell. that I just dismissed them altogether. No one in my family was actively religious and no one told me what to believe.
That was the question "When did you grow out of Theism?".
At 5 years of age

It's a scam, man, I'm sorry. even a child can get this if left on its own.
I'm telling the truth, even though you maybe think, I don't need to tell the truth if I don't believe in hell

very much totally the opposite atheist can bury you with facts about religion and for most the label Christian is

my phone is wet damn it:
very much totally the opposite. An atheist can bury you with facts about religion. And for most religious people just the label Christian is enough.

Shall I make a list of lit I like to see why

You had a kid understanding of the religion, and you still do. Do you really think people are going to explain the ins and outs of a complex religion to a 5 year old?

When I was twelve. It wasn't a logic thing. It became a logic thing, but that's not why I left.

I left because I realised I'd been using God as my imaginary friend. Not that others did -- that I did. I used Him to feel special, to feel like I mattered more than everyone else. I had a kinda Taiping thing going on. I eventually realised it wasn't God at all, it was just my clutching at snowflakedom. This lead to agnosticism, then, when I could bear it, atheism.

And now I'm thinking about religion again. Funny how that goes.

>>burden of proof lies on those who assert God exists
Ultimately this claim is a matter of faith and not proof anyway
>>all proof from them is usually "muh feels" shit
I would be leery of anyone claiming 'proof' of he existence of God (see above), but the issue doesn't simply reduce to 'feels' either
>>contradictions throughout the Bible
like what?
>>Occam's Razor
I think someone who believes in God would see Occam's Razor as not incompatible with faith

>like what?
He is speaking from a (hypothetical) literal perspective. Think fundies.
>I think someone who believes in God would see Occam's Razor as not incompatible with faith
See above. Atheists are typically only familiar with fundies or the other, more stringent divisions of faith. They mistakenly come to believe that contradiction in one aspect (lol miracles can't exist) leads to contradiction in another (lol Prime Mover ???).

Are you saying to understand religion and spirituality you are obliged to blindly believe in it first ?
I can understand it very well. It's not that I don't want to believe, it's just that I cannot.

Of course my understanding about my spiritual concerns were upgraded since.

like this guy says it is a very egoistic thing spiritualism, masturbation sort of. And I love to masturbate on such topics but it always point into the direction of the cosmological (like cosmology, the reason for existence) and to how to live your live like
I very much enjoy the compacted cultural myths and philosophies involved in the quest for religion from a historical perspective, how the inquiring quest for truth doesn't even stop at logic... when you can't figure it out you make a god concept..
The closest religions teaching to this would probably be Buddhism (for what I know of it so far), that really posts the right questions and goes directly to the source (the cosmological idea of existence)

idk, man

For me the final paradox is:
if god is existence and creation, what does this have to do with religion

god=nature

... and from there it's just loose interpretations

read aquinas my man

Anyone who is completely sure one way or the other can not call themselves a true intellectual.

Despite all the m'lady rampant in this thread this guy takes the cake for most immature/unintelligent poster I have seen on this board. Congratulations!!!!

>actually made me more open to theism

It made me more open to deism, but not theism.

thanks dude, I also do not think highly of you at all

around 13 started to have doubts and think God is evil, at 16 told myself he doesn't exist till he left my head. Then I read more about atheism and watched arguments and formulated my opinion also on reason rather than emotions. But these days God seems like a comfy thing when I view him not out of fear as it was in my childhood. I really wish I could say "fuck logic" and pretend to believe in him, but I just can't, because I know nothing will come out of it and the world will continue to be the ruthless and meaningless hell it is. And no excuse whatsoever can justify God's indifference or allowance to this to happen.

That's because you misread Aquinas lad

Doesn't god have fundamentally different cognitive abilities than us? Wouldn't that effectively mean his reality is fundamentally different? That could explain his behavior or lack thereof.

Why would god need an excuse? If he made the world with this much suffering is this not what the world is meant to be?

we made him up. he is us

You have to proof shit, because it's beliving and not knowing.

I'm not ruling out that possibility. But assuming he exists then wouldn't those things I stated hold true?

A dog or house cat is probably really confused when they watch us because they simply do not possess the capacity to understand our motivations. I think it'd be the same way with us and God. God isn't purposely mysterious. We simply can't figure out the complexities though I know people like you would like to they are capable of such reasoning.

Really, because the more that I know, makes me question anything written in favor of theology and only able to see them as moral compases of the day that keep trying to apply themselves thousands of years after conception. There are ideas that are good in every one of them, but so much bad can be attributed to anyone that their worth is pretty much gone. Knowing more and more we see how limited our knowledge is of both the micro and macro aspects of the universe, but never once has a model ever came to the conclusion 'god is the only answer'

>That's because you misread Aquinas lad

I haven't read Aquinas tbqh. I have no interest.

New age, the spirit of the universe and all that or Wicka for you. Next please!

You must be a towering intellect to have such abilities of argumentation. /s

If you are talking about a science book, or one that goes into heavier then what most of us came out of highschool with sure, but we also trust the really fuckin smart people because look at all they have done for us when religion has done, SO very little.

If you are talking about atheists and the bible, nothing makes you atheist faster than reading the book. I kind of stopped counting after the books called for my death somewhere over 100 times. But here is the thing, why live like there is a god? I know that there is something in 'well if you believe in god what is the harm but if you dont' argument, but knowing that everyone that isn't with you when you die is in hell would be hell in its own right, at least for me. I also don't believe hell can be that bad. eternal torment? what's going to happen? torture every day? Ill get use to it, If i can die for good? cool, I escape torture that way... There is no good argument for being fearful all your life of a sky daddy when the worst that can happen is a few years of torment before tedium sets in.

Ill argue the monkey is better because it doesn't look crooked as fuck, I mean it may not be and its just muscle pulling it to make it look off, but it still looks off.

Excuse me, which god are you talking about? Are you a Christian or a spiritualist, who is just dismissing all saints and myths, angels and hell?
What is this? You want to express your love and awe to the spiritual God by partaking into the philosophical meddlings from the Christian standpoint?
Say something new!
We cannot comprehend God, because he is incomprehensible to us like ants to the Internet...amen

yet you are sure it is "there", because of reasons

Okay thank you. Yes, distinguishing Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Mainline Protestants, and so on from each other is extremely important in a discussion like this, and it's unfortunate that everyone tends to get lumped together

this to this guy , wrong reply

I find it incredibly funny how so many people, including prominent public figures, become atheistic during their teenage years. Certainly a period known for great decision-making and reasoning abilities.

Not the same guy but I'm pretty sure that without religion we'd still be cavemen. It was a huge step in our journey to become the dominant species on Earth. If anything religion is the birthmark of self awareness. Also, a lot of the foundations of sciences were laid down by members of the clergy (and philosophers by extension).

I'm a deist but if there were a god I really don't think there would be anything to be afraid of. You seem to be living in just as much fear as traditional theists are.

Started off Christian, then at an early youth for a short period Atheist bent. Settled into Agnosticism pretty quickly from high school to college. Studied religion and philosophy more seriously, felt a "spiritual urge" while reading about the various traditions and was basically looking around for "the right religion." Finally synthesized everything I'd learned, neutralized the theist-atheist dichotomy with panentheism/panendeism.

Meant to quote OP, though I too had a similar stage of agnosticism, which has more or less fizzled out now. You can accept a truth like "science and theism don't contradict" for a while but actually reconciling those two positions is tougher and requires a new conclusion.

every word of this is pretty much my diary desu

i like you user

As opposed to people that at no point question any inherited ideology, right?

> once the limitations of human knowledge thus far attained are known, even roughly, it seems foolish for us to simply rule out theistic worldviews.

and thus we have Kant's most cowardly contribution to philosophy: that god is unknowable and all of our thoughts about god are merely symbolic.

>mfw when i know there are unknown unknowns

We made it, bro.

>that god is unknowable

Well he is, which is why every single religion stresses faith.

the day I won lit

Questioning =/= renouncing based on a strawman boys version of religion.

So questioning is great, but only if you don't question far enough to renounce an ideology based on doubt, because that's "a strawman boys version of religion"?

repent don't dissent!