Why do people often say that Ayn Rand is for the immature and only makes sense when you're 16?

I'm not a leftist. I value rationality and logic, not muh feels.

>he believes its possible or even inherently desirable to be "self sufficient"

>We
It seems you have tremendous difficulty understanding a basic statement, so I'll repeat it for you.
Veeky Forums is a leftist board, cuck

>user doesn't have the ability to move to a country of his choice at will
>user doesn't own his own land and means of production
>user is a farm thrall

capitalists are better socialists than most socialists

Ah I see you're one of those meme people, can you put that as your trip so I can not waste time in the future

you will understand why when you turn 17.

Check these dubs

thanks for bumping this killer thread, champ

The red pill is a mercury capsule that erodes your brain and turns you into a racist mongoloid. Congrats on being a useful idiot for the conservative establishment.

now my post will be dubs.
Also ayn rand has her times.

Rolling yet another dubs, check it:
Also, honestly Rand is an average novelist but her ideas as an answer to marxists frozen in time is worth.

and again, yes i'm bored.

This is an 18+ board.

DUDE ITS RATIONAL TO DO WHATEVER TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF ITS COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE LMAO

and now I lost the 88, sad.

nice dubs bot.

it was not a bot.
Pure lucky, but lit is a slowboard so I just waited for it to get close to the number and then posted.

and now the trips:

I would like you to read Anthem, then the Communist Manifesto, and tell me which has the better writing style and was more thought out. Go on, I dare you. Despite what you think of her ideals, she writes with a thin veneer, creating flat characters and making straw men out of her antagonists, using them as if a means to lecture rather than tell meaningful stories. To state it plainly, her writing sucks.
patheos.com/blogs/goodletters/2012/10/the-unbearable-badness-of-ayn-rand/

this

wtf cheater

She said the greatest thing man can do is be happy. Not work.

That´s not what being a leftist means.

also
>tips

The problem with being an asshole that doesn't care about other people is against your own self interest, because you live in a society, you need to make the society you live a better place if you want to live a better life.

Don't worry, you'll grow out of fascism when you get older. Hopefully before it's too late.

She never advocated being an asshole, only following your rational self interest. If being an asshole is not serving your self interest, then it's not rational.

It's not that hard.
It's like businesses that open shop by lowering their price compared to the competition. You can be an asshole and charge higher than everyone else, but you know that you'll only get more customers by being more enticing than the competition. So you act purposefully altruistic and charitable because it serves your self interest. You don't do it because it makes other feel good, but because you know it'll help you down the line.

If you're talking to someone whom you don't care about because he has nothing to offer, has nothing insightful to say and isn't interesting or funny, would you spend time with that person or care about him/her?

says the guys that got dubs.

Thinking that you can live without compromise is delusional.

>be Trump
>don't compromise
>win presidency
>gets redpilled by Obama that he will be killed like JFK
>compromises on his cabinet

Nice work out there.

Why do you leftists try so hard to deny the truth? Even if this place was once leftist it is certainly no longer. People have opened their eyes to the truth and that includes many people on Veeky Forums. There are still refuge's for your type on Reddit, but might I perhaps suggest that you sit down and really think your ideology through rather than follow it blindly as academia and the jew has told you.

written by the hand of someone who probably has to compensate a small penis with anger.

Actual socialism (rather than progressive liberalism) and right wing nationalism have a common enemy desu: Globalist liberalism.

Real lefties and righties have a lot in common.

It depends on what you compromise and where it is located on your hierarchy of values.

It is mostly just a meme that people repeat for culture points. That's not to say you can't criticize Ayn Rand but most of the people doing so haven't even read her.

Also her obsession with self-sufficiency is very anti-Leftist

Not an expert on her at all, but I don't find her philosophy particularly stupid or interesting, mostly it's just boring, I think she has stuck around largely because apolitical people really enjoy her books simply as novels.

I don't like her being part of a hollywood society to wage war on Communism.

Way too 'Skull and Bones' shit. Can't trust anything she says.

I just personally find it annoying the that things people always bring up is all
>OH OH OH SHE TOOK GOVERNMENT BENEFITS!!!!!! That's hypocrisy, fucking checkmate
Or
>in her diary she praised a psychopath who murdered 10 people for the type of mentality she was looking for to represent her philosophy
It's just annoying shut down arguments that doesn't talk about anything. I sometimes wonder if people can be so angry at something that they lose all rational thought.

>ran away from the horrors of Communism
>hurrr why is she so against Communism??
Not to mention that when she was still in Hollywood, people were romanticizing how well the Soviets were doing and that America should do the same.

Read Anthem and The Fountainhead no problem. Consider The Fountainhead a great book, despite the last judicial scene where she jacks off onto the page--skipped it, myself--but Atlas Shrugged is just bad. I tried reading it at the height of my Ayn Rand pussy riding phase and even then I saw it as pretentious and it ultimately soured my opinion of the works I had already read. Marxists are bad mmkay :(

Right. Because unhindered capitalism is such a leftist ideal.

>rand
>leftist
Spotted the retard

>Rand
>left

I didn't think it was possible, but you may be too retarded even for /pol/.

I wonder if the book would have greater merit if, in the end, Roark ended up going to prison for blowing up that building he designed.

I don't know if you're being ironic or not, but it might have served her message better if he was punished in some way like you suggest--sent to prison, fined, something--and then continued to work and even came back more successful than for her to just puke out what she had already said ten thousand times before in the book and then it's just "Ope, he destroyed property and blatantly broke the law, but he gets away with it because individualism will trump those collectivists any day amiright my fellow Americans?".

No, I'm being serious. I can't remember where I read this but Milton Friedman said something along the lines that thoughts cannot be private property and that Roark should have gone to jail because he wasn't innocent. He might have been right morally to see his art being perverted but it wasn't his art. He helped create it but it wasn't understand his name, he still broke the law by destroying private property.

I think Ayn Rand wanted that ending believing the public would eventually side with her and her philosophy if they ever got a chance to hear it. I dunno, maybe it would have shown true conviction and a refusal to compromise if he went to prison but then Toohey would have gotten his wish and I don't think Ayn Rand would've liked the idea that her Ubermensch ended up in prison. She wanted to end on a positive optimistic end that her philosophy will be found correct in the future even though the world kept being corrupted by Toohey.

As an ending, having the public moved by his speech works, but it weakened her message concerning private property as you said.

>tfw ywn worship Ayn's feet

I think that part of it for me (when I was 16 I loved Rand and did so until 18-19), was that I liked the idea of having some sort of objective existence. Rand was the only non-God route for objectivity. As you get older, you realize just how subjective your existence is. You start to realize that in fact, you are not a sort of saint of reason and logic. In reality, your brain is just creating stories for you to believe all the time, and that story will pretty much always seem logical whether it is or isn't. I think that when you're younger you haven't experienced enough of life to realize that. It's awfully hard to abstract patterns from your life when you are 16, and it's even harder to accept them if you are at all cynical. So instead of seeing these patterns of irrationality, you get this idea that you can think rationally all the time, and that you can force your brain to feel one way as long as that's the way you think it should feel.

It's naive and it's frustrating. Eventually you grow old enough to realize that you can live with yourself even if you aren't in as much control as you hoped.

you don't seem to have understood her works

>you need to make the society you live a better place if you want to live a better life.

holy shit the characters were making the world a better place

the rest of the world was making it shit for them

all the main characters in atlas shrugged didn't give a fuck about making money, they only cared about doing what they loved

>horrors of Communism

Nice try Hearst. You and Rand aren't fooling anyone.

Contradictory ideology typical of a conservative.
>saying a talented developer is wrong for wanting Google money

Yea I'm sure all those leftist engineers working for the highest salaries and best benefits in the industry really hate capitalism, they probably want to overthrow Google in some sort of Marxist coup...

Because she's not a very good writer, and Adam Smith did nothing wrong.

Rand's work is full of fictional characters in unrealistic scenarios, it's a story she writes where she can make any person do any thing and any event happen as a consequence regardless of whether it's reasonable. The fact that she pushes a political ideology along with her stories and people accept it as being practical is baffling.

You are acting like businesses being benevolent is a thing that actually happens in the real world beyond the smallest of enterprises. Her "objectivism" would work if we lived in a perfect ideal free market world where everyone respected society and nothing was corrupt or authoritarian

A fictional story with unrealistic characters and outcomes?
It's almost like she purposefully dismissed the realities of capitalism to legitimize her lofty ideology...

I liked the story. Just waaay too many monologues. Let the reader experience those words in the characters actions and environment.

This...doesn't even make sense. One's a novella, the other is a party platform.

>The fact that she pushes a political ideology along with her stories and people accept it as being practical is baffling.
How so? Are you saying art should not have intended messages or desire to convey the author's own value for the world? Should authors with political messages like Houellebecq be disregarded simply because they have political messages in their stories?

Ayn Rand simply created archetypical idealized characters and had them as mouthpieces. You're acting as though it's an affront to literature itself. But you're likely just talking about Atlas Shrugged and nothing else.

I swear, people take too much offence at her politics and nothing else.

>we lived in a perfect ideal free market world where everyone respected society and nothing was corrupt or authoritarian
I don't understand what you mean by ''where everyone respected society''.

I'm criticizing the fact that people take her ideas to heart and believe they are a practical solution to real problems.

The second point is that user was arguing individuals would work towards their best interest above all else, including contribution to the larger society of which they are part, and that there is some expectation of businesses and private interests to express a level of benevolence for their customers (be it through means of production or charity). Which I think is mostly bullshit in reality

I'VE SHIFTED INTO OVERKEK

>Which I think is mostly bullshit in reality
Got any facts to back up your thinking?

youtube.com/watch?v=OE9NGOgdrIo

So her argument against Communism was to write a story (Atlas) showing it working?

A perfect society with no property rights, where literal engineers and doctors become janitors as a part time job.

>So her argument against Communism was to write a story (Atlas) showing it working?
No. It was showing Atlas Shrugging.

>lets fight communism by becoming communist

>Expecting me to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich

>she writes with a thin veneer, creating flat characters and making straw men out of her antagonists, using them as if a means to lecture rather than tell meaningful stories.

Marx also writes with a thin veneer, concealing his religious mindset behind a scientific writing/style.

Go back to /pol/ with your fucking jews lmao

>anti communism is communism

That's exactly what a leftist means nowadays.
Wait, I take that back, it has always meant that.

>Capitalism has never really been tried! Those other examples aren't REAL capitalism.

It's because Veeky Forums is essentially Reddit and has bought into the Leftist memes. Ayn Rand is such a massive threat to their world view if observed objectively and with an open mind, that they do everything they can to demonize her, when in truth none of them have read a single fucking word of her work. None of the fags on this board have read any of her work either. She's an excellent novelist and her philosophy is brilliant.

>linking to Patheos for an objective criticism on Ayn Rand
Kill yourself. Anthem is intentionally written like that. It's written in the first person from the perspective of a member of a fucked up collectivist society, and she also wrote it for fun while working on The Fountainhead. Get out of here with your non-arguments.

Because her ideas are awful and she would've become a parasitic hobo within 24 hours of their eventual implementation, just like all free market mongoloids.

Because Capitalism is a criminal ideology and cannot exist for more than a generation without SOME Government regulation. Just the KNOWN history of Capitalism is literally nothing but endless gang warfare at the detriment of the State, the planet, and the People. Your average CEO is a self-admitted criminal for fuck's sake.

Capitalist monopolies - which, by the way, are orchestrated by the corporations through bribery and blackmail - cannot exist without Government because nothing can.

And yet, in spite of all that, it's STILL better than Socialism/Communism.

Really activates my almonds.

fuck no

Quick everyone laugh at this retard

and yet, in spite of all that, Rand fails spectacularly at providing any legitimate justification for practical capitalism
her ideas are so far off what real capitalism is like, this is the argument, not "Rand is bad because capitalism is bad". Rand capitalism is completely unrealistic and it's basically the right wing equivalent of ideologically blind leftist utopias

it's mainly butthurt lefties scared of a strong woman

She's red pilled as fuck and lefties can't handle it.

I thought we were right libertarian.

Because 16 year olds think very highly of themselves
Even nerds who seem to have low self-esteem actually think very highly of themselves

It's easy to agree with Rand when the only person you think about is yourself.

When you have a wife and kids and people depending on you, you start understanding the problems with this system of thought.

The best analogy I've run across concerning her "philosophy"

Think of somebody inventing a baffling, useless martial art..."The Way of The Striking Face," let's say. This martial art teaches that the face is the strongest part of the body, and should be at the forefront of both offense and defense.

In the real world, this martial art is a disaster. Anybody that tries it fails miserably. So its creator envisions an alternate reality of lantern-jawed, steel-faced supermen who go around beating their enemies to a pulp with their noses and cheekbones. This is essentially what Ayn Rand did in Atlas Shrugged.

If you want a real-life example of her philosophy applied, look up a man named Ed Lampert.

hello paul ryan

I found you motherfucker

if everyone followed Ayn Rand's Objectivism, this world would be an utter hell-hole.

I'll never forget that rape scene in the Fountainhead. just blew my fucking mind.

This. The desperate teenage need to cling onto rationality is something most of us outgrow

>in reality your brain is just creating stories for you to believe all the time

Preach!

oh please as if his VP pick won't a taste of what was to come

people dont often say this. everyone who can think rationally insists on this. she is a completely worthless writer, caught in her own web of internal meanings and tropes, not capable of true thought. im embarrassed to say that i share a lineage of sorts with her (wont say what of course)

I dont know where you found that analogy but its as shitty as your opinion.

She was critizicing the way people were starting to become romanticized by socialism, thats the whole point of the book, the ones that go on strike are the people that created the factories, the railroads, etc...

She was amazed by humanitiy`s achievments and despised what se had seen on the USSR.

I've read her works and while I agree with some of her ideals (such as those set forth in Anthem), I disagree with the absolute every man for himself ideology. She praises monopoly and business oligarchies, while disapproving of small business. While I understand the basis of her hatred of communism, she takes it much to far to the point of essentially supporting one form of absolute tyranny and control over another. Huge hypocrite in that sense.

However I do totally get her outlook on how communism fucks shit up, however her flaws in her ideology come from her inability to understand monopoly is just as bad as communism, where small business capitalism is the best form of capitalism, every other economic system is essentially flawed due to how easily corruption and facism can take over.

>tfw no ayn rand gf

Rand really isn't relevant outside the USA.
Dunno why you guys make such a big deal out of her.