Are engineers at the top of society in the hearchial tier of application of willpower through intelligence?

>engineers at the top of society
L0Lno fgt pls

you seem pretty badly delusional about how classes work

60k is a fuckton of money as a single person unless you live in manhattan or silicon valley

>bachelor's degree

that's not an engineer, we call that a glorified technician in urop.

Bachelor's degrees are four years in North America.

I know.

That doesn't make people with bachelor degrees engineers. You'd need a master's degree at least to be at the top of your field.

Americans take 4 years to learn what takes Europeans 6, what's your point?

kek you are delusional. A European undergrad degree is much more specialized and content is covered much faster, there is no handholding via fucktons of problem sheets/homework and instead just a final exam, classes start straight from where you left off in high school as opposed to taking introductory mechanics etc again unless you have AP exams and there are no side diversions such as mandatory (((social studies))) classes

I have friends studying engineering in Ivy League/Stanford/MIT and one of them couldn't solve an ODE without boundary conditions in his 3rd year CompE track because he had only learned Laplace transforms.

Butthurt Yuropoor detected

If Yuropoor schools are so good why aren't they ranked higher than American schools?

That's what I thought.

Because we're too busy doing stuff, while you're attention whoring as usual

Thats funny. I went to trade school and made $80k last year. Its not a fuckton of money. Enough to live comfortably? Sure. Not a fuckton though, where i live CoL is retarded low too.

>graduate from Stanford, BSCE
>grad school in NY
>land a job in Cali making 90k
>dated a nurse with an associates making 105k/yr
>wut

You're thinking of yogi op

American grad school is better than Europe, but for undergrad Americans waste time learning general requirements instead of what they are majoring in. That's what makes undergrad only take 3 years in Europe.

You guys don't seem to realize just how many poor people there are. Go volunteer at a soup kitchen or a shelter, get a little perspective. Hell, travel abroad. There's more to the world than your little corner of it.

>mfw Americans value European history and culture more than Europeans do

What's a good engineering major with interesting and not too stressful jobs? I'm CompE right now but I don't want to code full time.

Every engineering major is eligible for interesting jobs, but all the interesting jobs are stressful

If you're really good, you get two pick two of the following
>interesting work
>well-paid
>not working 60 hrs/week

>tfw making more than $65k as a single guy in my Midwest city makes you upper class

No one is at the top of anything so long as everything is being disintegrated by entropy

Don't mind me, just checking some digits

Dumb poster. One post quicker and it would have been kinda cool, though

>all the interesting jobs are stressful
That's what I figured. Idk if low stress and boring or high stress and interesting is better.

I just don't want to hate my job tbqh

I'd give both a try tbqh. I think that most engineers are more ambitious than they realize

I'll definitely do that. I'm doing an internship right now that could barely be considered engineering. It's low stress and boring, but I have free time in the evenings and weekends to do whatever. I could never do this for the rest of my life and I'm so glad it's almost over.

I'm a research scientist whose main hobby is investing, so I tend to look down on engineers. But I'm glad they exist. Someone has to do the grunt work.

Engineers are the poor brainlets of the STEM foodchain, unless they're making something truly interesting and unique.

...

It's called status, idiot. There's a reason women prefer doctors over Alaskan crab fishermen despite similar pay, and there's a reason people go into engineering instead of becoming plumbers.

>scientists are high status
WEEEEEEEEW LAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDD

Engineers don't become plumbers because plumbing is boring and requires interacting with strangers, btw

>giving a shit about women and social status

Could you be anymore of a cuck?

>It's called status, idiot.
Real men don't give a shit about status, they just do their stuff and they fuck way more women than your status slave does. Those are the kind of guys you find in your wife's bed when you come home early.

>implying scientists aren't in the top 5% of the status pyramid

L. O. L.

Keep telling yourself you made the "practical choice" in life, giga-brainlet.

>he slaved away at grad school so that he could make money he'll lose and meet girls who will cheat on his limp-wrist beta ass instead of studying a subject he enjoyed like an actual man

Join the quant master race and stick with engineering.

Status is correlated to physical health, cortisol levels, self-reported happiness, longevity, blood pressure, mental performance and even fertility, but keep telling yourself you're "above it all," unlike those petty homo sapiens. Kek

>being this delusional

I'm not even sure I want to disabuse you of your fantasy, as it may not be ethical.

Yes, brainlets. It's a pure coincidence that people with the highest IQs go into research instead of engineering. Pure coincidence

Fuck no, it's the people who have to deal with all the fuck ups engineers create. Especially mechanical engineers, especially those who work for Cat, navistar, paccar, mercedes, volvo, and freightliner. Fuck those guys.

Engineers are both tops and bottoms.

I disagree that it takes a Master's degree. Honestly, the degree itself doesn't determine how well an individual knows something; I almost believe school is a waste of everyone's time since those interested in the field of study will study on their own and do so as a hobby and will therefore likely be very intelligent and specialized in the said field. That being said, the schools do provide some sort of curriculum and guidance for the things to study in the field, albeit a bit weak.

I agree with you, but efficient self-study requires high intelligence and a certain personality trait. I have never taken an IQ test, but my friend whose also a good autodidact took one at mensa and he scored in the 135-140 range.

Of course, you can't stay on top in your field without continuous self-study and continuously improving yourself.

However for engineering a BSc (at least here in Europe) is about absorbing broad, but basic information so you can see the big picture and then you get the basics of your specialization.
A MSc should broaden your general knowledge in math and physics and offer advanced knowledge in your specialization if you have one.
You can also do a different MSc for interdisciplinary reasons or out of interest. It really doesn't hurt and it's good for separating people who only did engineering for the money from those who have legit interests in research, design, etc..

Hell I went into Materials Engineering because I was afraid Physics wouldn't land me a job and I didn't want to get stuck in research in case I didn't like it. You're telling me I may still be in the A-okay to study Condensed Matter Physics (PhD)? I figured you had to have a relevant degree for your graduate studies.

>>mfw Americans value European history and culture more than Europeans do
I think it is just due to America having a worse high school education quality which forces the universities to cope with that by forcing student through an extra year with general requirements. In Europe the education quality of high schools aren't as bad so Europeans can skip the year of general requirements and begin with their major directly.

I want to get into biomedical engineering specifically because of how overinflated the salaries in that industry are

>implying there's any reason to make more than ~30k per year other than to waste it on women

I don't know about your situation and how exactly education works in your country. You have to research it yourself. However around here they allow you to enter a related MSc from a BSc.
For example CompEng could go into EE or CS, or EE/ME/CompEng into Mechatronics.
I know for a fact that one of the universities around here advertises taking engineers (mostly EE/ME) for their applied physics MSc.
The usual process requires you to have at least a specified amount of minimum credits in certain areas depending on the target MSc. The rest can be acquired parallel to your MSc studies.

So most of the time it's not (that) easy and you have to have relevant knowledge.

We also have less general courses and most of the courses are directly tailored to your chosen degree.
Here is a curriculum for a BSc in EE from one of our unis. They offer more specializations for native Hungarian speakers though.
vik.bme.hu/document/831/original/EE__BSc_degree_program_mintatanterv_szakiranyokkal_20160617.pdf

Sounds about right

>tfw niggers and spics are holding back my country's entire educational system

I don't think that a bachelor's degree will prepare most to be successful engineers simply because doing a master's thesis really ties all your knowledge together and forces you to think very critically about your field. Not just memorizing processes and shitting them out on exams

>there is no handholding via fucktons of problem sheets/homework and instead just a final exam

>euro's think professors actually teaching is "handholding"

>euro's are literally proud of draconian teaching methods and their professors not giving a fuck about them

you aren't an engineer till you get your PE/Charter.

Well, I know many professors that'd agree with you. Draconian is a really good word for it, and it gives absolutely no good results, I don't know why we're still having this shit system. Education is free at least.

yeah and I'd argue that the relationships you build in grad school definitely put you on track for your PE

pretty much every professor you'll work with will have a PE and you need a PE cosigning you before you're allowed to take the exam

Grad programs will accept people even with unrelated majors although you may be asked to go back and take extra classes if they feel you're missing anything.

I'll look into it more, thanks for the feedback anons

Is it worth it to get into a grad program if you're a freshman at 23?

yes. grad school is always worth it. its literally the highest return on investment for education. PhD, not so much.

So it's not going to be weird getting out of school around 30-32 asking for my first job?

Pardon me if I'm retarded, I haven't been interested in school in a long time

>pretty much every professor you'll work with will have a PE

thats not true at all. most professors will have been out of industry for so long that their license has expired due to the lack of continuing education required to maintain.

that is if they ever got it at all. out of a faculty of 30 mechanical engineering professors, only 5 had their PE's, and they were teaching low level courses like statics and mech of mat while working a EOR gig as a side hustle.

why is it going to take you almost 7 years to get a masters?

are you working right now? if so, then no it will not seem weird at all. employers are actually going to appreciate that hustle.

>intern during BS
>graduate with BS
>get full time job in your field
>do Master's part time
>graduate with MS and 3 years of full time experience
Then just watch the job offers roll in

>engineer thread
>0 mentions of cocks
I want newfags out of Veeky Forums

I go to the best engineering department in all of UKistan and I can tell you that most of what we do is cram all the information we need into our short term memory, take the exam, then forget everything and move onto the next topic.

The only vaguely useful things I remember is coding in matlab/c+ and some of the work i did for my dissertation. 90% of the actual content I "learned" is gone from my mind forever.

Well, good luck getting any interesting job. You should have learned to like your field and study on your own properly. No one is going to teach you if you don't teach yourself.

It's your life, so do whatever the fuck you want btw. This is just my two cents.

Ranked by who

>making 200k a year but paying off loans until you're 40

should have probably taken a course in finance before you graduated

A lot easier said than done. I would love to have the time to actually enjoy my subjects, but when you're drowning in projects and exams (not to mention debt and part time jobs), you don't have time to sit back and enjoy things. If you want the grades you have to take the most pragmatic approach, and the cramming approach is the most tried and tested out of all of them.

In all the 4 years I've been studying I think the number one skill i've taken away is being able to absorb and apply a lot of information in a short space of time during high pressure situations. I guess that's something...

>A lot easier said than done.
I didn't mean to be harsh. You're right though. This can happen especially if you work too. Like you said, you usually simply can't read up on all the subjects due to time constraints.

>If you want the grades you have to take the most pragmatic approach,
This has more truth to it then I would like to admit. Let's just say you can achieve grades without and with a proper lasting deep understanding, but one of them is far easier than the other.

This is the biggest fault of the education system imho.
I know examples where I have failed a class due to whatever reason (time, or another class having higher priority) and I ended up knowing a lot more than the dudes who simply completed it. I see bunch of guys getting exceptional marks and later they don't really understand the subject. This makes me in a way disappointed, sad, but as long as you aren't oblivious to this then it's good.
Don't get me wrong no one enjoys all the different classes, some classes you just want to pass.

>i've taken away is being able to absorb and apply a lot of information in a short space of time during high pressure situations.
It can help you a lot dealing with, processing information during crisis situations if you can do it in an actual life-like scenario with consequences. You probably won't block.

Same here in South America, USA's school system makes it easy as fuck to hace a perfect score. If you are american you have literally no excuse for not getting a 4.0 GPA. Also my IE degree has 54 obligatory anual classes, and 5 oblygatory electives (all related to IE), meanwhile in american universities they only have around 30 classes. Also I cant believe that in american schools you can get credits from classes that are not related to your degree, that's retarded