Does this disgust you?

Most of the girls in engineering are pretty good in my experience. Out of the ones who really shouldn't be there, most are guys.

This. Affirmative action is not good even for the student who got the place for being worse but different.

>be minority
>be not poor
feelsgoodman

Can you guys go be butthurt somewhere else? Or at least make it less obvious

It gives them an opportunity to prove themselves. People may assume they have no real talent, but if that's not the case and people pay attention they'll realize some of them do have talent (and of course some don't).

If the government cared about providing opportunity, they wouldn't have created ghettos.

I wonder how these spud-brained nu-male imbeciles even function.

Next time you see a train, jump in front of it.

>girls get their own affirmative action in stem fields especially engineering
A female computer science grad was doing an unpaid internship for a friend of mine. He said she was pretty average skill and knowledge wise but had offers from basically every top tech firm because she had a puss puss and they all have gender quotas now. She'll be starting on 80-100k+ straight out of University.

I've always wondered what would happen if you just lied about your gender

You wouldn't have to put on a show just dismiss it as you identifying as a female

Can attest to this, all the girls in my engineering class (which isn't many by any means) can pretty much pull their own weight and then some. Hell one time I was writing up a la with a couple and she was the one helping him mostly. Ironically also, she's white and he's asian. Maybe it's different for mechanical engineering though I suppose.

so what do you believe the purpose of affirmative action is? Is it a plot to actually increase racism? Honestly curious what you believe

It's a plot to get votes.

Pretty much. In a country with different trying to untie them is pointless and painful. Just let them fight.

Pretty much anything any politician does is a plot to get votes. If they didn't think people were going to vote for them, they wouldn't be saying it.

The end result is the same, though. Politicians don't give a shit and just want votes, and affirmative action gets votes because people want minorities to have opportunity.

People want it to look like the problem has gone away. They don't care if the problem is actually gone or not.

I guess different voters want different things, but I know some voters believe affirmative action is a way to give underrepresented groups an artificial and temporary boost that they won't need anymore after we get more of them participating.

Not everyone voting for affirmative action is that cynical.

I had experience being in the same group with one female in my department. She don't even want install the required libraries to do our final research project because it would break her system and make her unable to do her assignments. In the end it's me doing 90% of the work and she do the report. She's always late for meetings... I should've know when she sucks professor like he's her mom. She just want the grades. I learnt my lesson, being in the same group with female? never again. Thanks.

lmao my friend Rob was denied from UPenn's engineering program because the valedictorian of his grade was a girl and applied. and everyone knows that she cheated her way through high school and didnt deserve that spot at all. in fact the AP chemistry teacher at our school ripped her apart for it on graduation day, it was fucking glorious

but luckily for Rob hes insanely smart and he's making a name for himself at UPenn still. but i fucking hate most girls in STEM fields especially ones coming from high school going into college.

Personally I am on the fence about affirmative action currently. I believe the idea was good, but it's unclear how long it should last, or if it's been long enough already. It definitely shouldn't be permanent.

However I also laugh at the mostly white male brainlets whining about their lost opportunity. If you lost an opportunity due to affirmative action, that means you were barely good enough to begin with. Your opportunity is no big loss. The best white males are still succeeding, losers.

If you view it like that, then the success state of the quotas involves the quotas becoming unnecessary/removed. How long have the quotas been around and how many places have reached the point where they don't need them anymore?

>graduating class of 30 students in my major
>all three women have job offers
>1 out of 27 men have job offers
>these three women singlehandedly ruined multiple promising school projects
>threw temper tantrums and shouted people down when they didn't get their way
>lost interest in projects and abandoned them after forcing all of us to do things their shitty way
God I hate these cunts so much

yeah ok lol. "graded unfairly". while i'm not majoring in engineering, i'm still studying stem. pathology specifically. getting my masters than my doctorate. i'm not in the top 5 of my class because of affirmative action kek.

A masters is the consolation prize for a failed. PhD attempt.

Determining when it's no longer useful is a messy issue that I won't pretend to know the answer to. I definitely wouldn't claim that we need to keep doing it until every job has perfectly proportional representation from all races and genders.

Over recent decades we have seen an increased proportion of underrepresented groups going into fields they didn't used to go into. It's very likely that affirmative action has something to do with that.

Of course at some point you'll see diminishing returns, and perhaps we are already at (or even past) that point.

I realize my vague answers may be frustrating, but social issues are messy. I just think it's an oversimplification to claim that affirmative action was always bullshit. I think it's a reasonable idea, or at least it was at some point.

phd get. already got accepted into icahn for med.

Is your major engineering?

Yes. Send help.

I'm sorry that happened, user. I guess my experience is just different from yours. I never majored in engineering but I've taught many calculus classes, and in my experience the girls are pretty good.

They are extremely good at what they do, and that is being manipulative. They play other people against each other. They don't care about engineering or making cool projects: they just want attention and to be in charge.

this this this this

>based solely on their ability
Agreed. In fact AA is backwards. Shitskins should be required to score higher than whites because we know their races have less ability on average.

I acknowledge that women in general are manipulative, but I trust the results of my calc tests.

It's possible that there's a little bit of cheating here and there, but I don't believe that's a significant problem in my classes.

Also maybe the girls are able to manipulate the smarter guys into studying with them, and that's not exactly fair but at the end of the day they're able to pass the test. I don't believe they have a significant advantage.

>I trust the results of my calc tests
The objective truth was never the point user. Get with the program.

"Ill take, steaming piles of bullshit, for 600, Trebeck"
Girls have a genetic disadvantage in spatial reasoning ability and math ability. Both are vital for engineering. You mustve had some guy friends who were as stupid as you guys.
But lets be honest, you two are both shills... why am i even responding...

a good chunk of AA hires are vets.

Have 85 iq typical of minority- have to hang out in own mind- boring boring place to live...

The world is so fucked up.

I wish I had been born a girl so I could at least have had a happy life before it all burns in nuclear fire.

>graded more leniently
This is /pol/ tier bullshit. I'm a TA for an engineering course and I am equally harsh to all of the students.

It's not just about individual merit but about the whole efficiency of the system you stupid fucktard.

Wasting resources on people that don't deserve their spot = Less efficiency = Lower ability to compete in the market system = Less exports, more imports = More debt

No wonder China is now the world's largest economy at PPP. It was a third of America in the year 2000. They don't tolerate politically correct bullshit.

>to give underrepresented groups an artificial and temporary boost that they won't need anymore after we get more of them participating.

A long-winded way of saying "to look like the problem has gone away"

>temporary
These programs are permanent and they don't improve society. Evidence has been shown in this thread.
You cannot legislate discrimination away.

The tragedy is that once it's in, you can't take it out for fear of looking racist or otherwise callous. It's a trap.

>WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU WANT TO REMOVE THE INJUSTICE ELIMINATOR? IT ELIMINATES INJUSTICE!
>NEVERMIND ALL THE FAILURES AND BLATANT CHEATING JUST GIVE IT MORE TIME AND MORE MONEY

>I definitely wouldn't claim that we need to keep doing it until every job has perfectly proportional representation from all races and genders.

That's because you know that it's stupid to even aim for.

>we have seen an increased proportion of underrepresented groups going into fields they didn't used to go into. It's very likely that affirmative action has something to do with that.

I don't believe you. Please find some statistics that tie it in directly. Otherwise you'll have one less convert, going around spreading his dangerous ideology of personal freedom and responsibility.

The fact I believe, is that largely the general spread of wealth and knowledge accessibility, brought about through advancing technologies, like the internet, have brought third-worlders into the fold.

Affirmative Action, like most social engineering projects, is an outright barrier to integration at worst and a stumbling block at best. People need to be free to advance by their own means or through their own charities, not forced into situations they aren't ready for by people who are forced to pay the taxes.
youtube.com/watch?v=fmO-ziHU_D8

As someone who is following your debate here, I want to thank you for at least sounding like someone who can be reasoned with.

>these programs are permanent
evidence?

Congrats on being a good TA buddy

He is John Titor

wouldn't the system be more efficient if everyone had an equal opportunity to succeed?

You caught me without the links, I'm gonna go digging.
While I'm out, consider looking yourself for any entitlement programs that have been shut down once they've started rolling.
I sincerely doubt you'll find any; once a program starts, every failure is excused away and the agencies in charge just beg for more time and money.
If you do, I'm willing to bet such programs didn't go down without riots and fearmongering. That the public had minimal time to relearn what it needed to and quickly set up another in its place.

"Affirmative Action" generally goes back to FDR btw

what exactly do you want me to prove? that affirmative action has a positive correlation with increased underrepresented groups participation in stuff?

>"we're gonna put this program in place, it'll definitely help everyone and you cannot disagree with me until 100 years from now because it's impossible to prove me wrong."
>claims that can't be falsified
>Veeky Forums

see california proposition 209 of 1996

no, because correlation does not imply causation.
it does imply that there is something worth digging for though! the scent that gets the hound moving.
sorry if i sound patronizing.
it shouldn't be that hard to find someone getting accepted to a university as a result of AA laws or attending while being subsidized by them. Come to think of it, I may be sending you on a redundant mission.

Because even then, what you've got isn't necessarily a positive result.
Big whoop if there are more butts in seats.

What are they actually contributing to the discussion? And if they are doing good things, is there a better vehicle to get them there, that doesn't also get you a ton of duds and a weird social stigma that they're in a seat they didn't earn?

thanks im gonna get to work on dismantling it once im done with hw

They do but what can you do about it? Critiquing affirmative action for women in STEM fields would make you an anti-feminist misogynist bigot and thus a pariah in academia, so you have to get tenured before you can do so.

Hello weak undergrads, as a superior PhD student who grades your filth I can provide some much needed insight.

The highest score out of a 140+ programming II class is a female. She easily 100% both exams. This is a good competitive school with professors who have authored books in relevant computer science subjects, you know their names.

This isn't to say anything about the guys, some are also very good. It has nothing to do with sex, race, etc like you retards believe, but amazingly it has everything to do with hard work.

>1 point of data suggests sex and race mean nothing

bait

If only you would be against racial affirmative action as you are against feminist affirmative action, then you would truly see. Judge people by their abilities, not by their race, gender or wealth.

No amount of data would change your mind you retard. I'm giving you an anecdote from someone who has to deal with retarded undergrads to get paid.

If that is indeed the case, then there is no need for affirmative action.

>Is it science related?
No
>Is it math related
No
>If it is neither of these, does it contain politics or political subject matter
Yes

There is nothing equal about affirmative action.

Equality of opportunity (aka meritocracy) =/= Equality of outcome

>It has nothing to do with sex, race, etc like you retards believe, but amazingly it has everything to do with hard work.

bingo
encourage hard work, not having all the right oppression boxes checked off

Equality of opportunity is impossible. Meritocracies, without fail, degrade into a society that revolves around finding better and better ways to cheat.

it is academia related though

Its worse If you make a move she will fucking go to HR

That's the most retarded bullshit I've ever read on Veeky Forums. Congratulations.

Every successful nation in history has been meritocratic to some extent.

Until they fall...because people learn how to cheat.

Basing qualifications on someones ability? That will never work because people cheat.

Basing qualifications on race? Brilliant! In no way will the aforementioned cheaters ever ruin this system.

Yes it is. And only half of them are smart enough to even recognise this. Not that they care most of them abuse it.

It's complete bullshit there's no reason for this discrimination.

Yaya I've heard this same bullshit diversity theory dreamt up by some half-witted sociology researcher a million times by now.

The problem is it's bullshit. Put a bunch of diverse people in a brainstorming session and the young white males come up with all the creative ideas. The old white males quietly comes up with the established ideas that actually work. The asian doesn't speak and the rest occasionally spout some insane gibberish that usually violates some physical law.

50:50 regardless of merit is a policy at most universities.

Some say it was intended to stamp out the gay engineering meme.

Dude shut up with your racist crap

I'm a young white software engineer and my team is primarily made up of Indians. They're all wicked smart, sharp as hell. There is one female Indian on my team as well and she is really smart and works on some of the hardest lowest level performance critical areas of our code.

Tbh guys I made the harsh observation to never work with women ever. No projects, no contracts, no nothing. Their brain (at least of the 99% I've met, many with PhDs) is unable to process logic. They will fake it by spouting smart words or wearing a business suit, but they remain clueless because they don't get work done. They are not meant to, they were meant to breed and educate children, not create stuff.

All my teachers were females. Go figure.

it is natural for men like you to crave the validation of their existence and get depressed if they fail to feel relevant, responsible, dutiful.
The best way for a man to cater his need for approval is to serve some woman (and some of her children) through emotional&financial support, which he sees as ''a childish useless submissive woman'' [or whore and he feels betrayed by her]
Men are pleased to contribute to someone else life, to support their family.

Why women are a good way to feel relevant? Because women love to be provided for and each woman will always find a man ready to please her.
[for most men, the best feeling of feeling real is when the girl moans from your cock in her pussy, or for the most impotent, their tongue in the pussy]

THe problem for men is that they are disposable in the eyes of each woman, since all men wish to serve the few women who talk to them.
Men must thus invent several ways to please women, invention and creativity which strengthen their feeling of being worthy, relevant, in touch with reality.
Men are too impotent to find other way to feel real.
Once that the a woman replaces a man by another provider, the man gets very upset and depressed.
THis leads men to think that they are better than women, stronger, smarter and that they must built a life outside women. Some men manage to indeed built an empire, but they will always loose it for some women.
Women give meaning to men and betas, no matter how successful outside women, will always give up everything for some relationship with some woman who claim to fancy them.

> expecting pussy for fixing a computer
dont fucking fix it without asking for something first then dumbshit

Sounds nice except it's false. I know plenty of men (myself included), who just do the bare minimum of work necessary to pay the bills, have engaging hobbies, and don't give a fuck about women. They are all the same desu (as are men), and not worth the hassle unless you want kids.

...

women are just more hardworking (can do routine and autistic useless tasks) and also they can easily adapt to the environment so they have much better results

>The fact I believe, is that largely the general spread of wealth and knowledge accessibility, brought about through advancing technologies, like the internet, have brought third-worlders into the fold.
holy shit user I agree with you 100% but please use less commas

Are you talking Calc 1-3 here? That's highschool and GE tier. Easy classes for anyone with the slightest bit of work ethic.

Can vouch for the southeast asians and indians.
As usual it comes down to individuals.

>encourage hard work, not having all the right oppression boxes checked off
It's funny how much people care about the oppression boxes, yet how little they care about the "Daddy is a wealthy donor" and "Mommy could afford Andover" boxes.

Nothing wrong with (ab)using betas

If they are so smart then they don't need Affirmative Action.

I never knew working in Burger King was so taxing.

Tldr

> community college comp sci 101
Wew laddy...
If you understood the reality that the single best predictor of Socioeconomic outcome is iq, and you understood that girls have thinner tails on their bell curves, you wouldnt be making the shill argument youre making.
At least not with a straight face.
Also, phd means nothing.
Shit colleges hand out phds like candy.

If you apply some logic to what you just said, you'd understand how phenomenally stupid you are.

Suppose a uni has 5 slots for an undergrad class (for the sake of argument). Because of quotas, muh spectrum, and the like, 3 slots are given out to women, minorities, etc who, in terms of merit, are adequately qualified at best compared to other (white and sometimes Asian) applicants. The remaining two slots come from a much larger pool of applicant (whites and asians) who must now exceed those who excel in a way that turns the application process more into a lottery than anything, as merit can no longer be relied on, and other things are considered. In the college thread on here the other day, an user that went to MIT got in because he "had a 3.9 and participated in a sport they really liked". He didn't even think he belonged there.

tl;dr You're an idiot. Because expectations are so astronomically unfair for whites (and some asians), merit is cast out the window and the application process becomes one resembling a lottery, unless you're a minority or a woman, in which even a modicum of merit can get you a full boat at an Ivy League and guarantee your employment at 100k starting.

...

Whose side is this fatty on?

he's not fat, he just have big bones, and a big dong ;)
#StopFatShaming
#GiveHerTheD

God, you have issues.