There is NO consciousness

I made conscious decision to sage, report and hide this thread.

You type like a AI and the burden of proof is on you, brainlet.
>conscious decision
Nah it stems from your brain's inadequacy to accept the truth. Your heredity and environment has made your brain to not accept that you have no consciousness but maybe the law will be kind to you and help you accept it.

What if it's possible to have free will through emergent properties of systems that can't actually be predicted from the structure or state of the system????

>being this much of a brainlet to not feel his own consciousness

What if I'm just a computer simulation?

Why do brainlets not understand abstractions?

This is the best video I've come across that explains it:

youtube.com/watch?v=S4k07oeDFUg

There's no truth. What are you babbling about?

because mary learns something new when she sees red for the first time

I think you both misunderstand evolution and consciousness.

>no consciousness
>offers no alternative or explanation of "consciousness"

>You're just the experience of your brain, its that simple.

in other words, you are just your consciousness?

At this point I'm convinced that hard problem deniers are P-zombies. Julian Jaynes was right, not all humans are conscious.

...

kek

forgot "not an argument"

what if the sky is green but we all think its blue???

what's wrong with AI?

>There is no working DEFINITION of consciousness.
Fix'd

You know, it is possible that we are all conscious beings who are merely observers of our own physical bodies, and that all our intentions are merely depent on what our bodies happen to do next. In that way, even if you assume the future is predetermined, consciousness could still exist. It's just that all conscious beings would be helpless observers who can do jack shit except convert electrical signals into emotions and other qualia.

>puts the burden of proof on dualists and says there is not even such a thing as "consciousness"
>is still tasked with explaining something that does not exist

epic

When you sleep you are still conscious, just not aware of it. Many schools of thought had mentioned death is the same experience. Others say life itself was a mistake, a disease even. That infinite peace existed before humans which muddled everything.

I'm leaning on the side that life goes on after death into a collective unaware consciousness of experience. Quantum mechanics will push us into this realm of understanding. You do not exist until another human sees you exist. Thus Adam and Eve.

>Thus adam and eve
Not the strongest way to back up a potentially spot-on but entirely unfalsifiable argument..

you're missing 'evolutionary purpose'

>assuming consciousness isn't predetermined

This is science and math. I don't know where we discuss philosophy on Veeky Forums. Maybe /x/. But science is about things that can be proven or dis proven, using the scientific method. Unless you have the documentation to back up this claim, I would suggest you leave. Any papers published in journals, any major discoveries from a renowned research institute, anything like that? Because that is science.

Without any of that, you're just a vitriol spewing troll. I believe trolls belong on /b/ or /pol/, although the nerds over at Veeky Forums would recommend that fire be used to solve all troll-related occurrences. Without any real science, this is just one of those pointless arguments that doesn't actually involve science, like theological debates.

Consciousness is vague, it can be an umbrella under any board but I agree. Nobody will learn much from this thread.

consciousness or better phrased awareness is not the same as thought process, even if everything was predetermined which obviously no one can know, it doesn't stop you from being aware.

If you realize that what you think and that which experiences it is different its clear what consciousness is and that it is not only there but the only thing that surely exists.

Still it doesn't mean that in a predetermined reality awareness could affect it in any way.

Let's say someone clones you, OP. But they not only manage to clone you, they also manage to replicate exactly your living conditions while growing up, and the entirety of your life experience to the neuronal level.

Same genetics, same memories, same neural pathways. An exact replica of you.
But would it be YOU?

Would you perceive him as part of your body, or as another entity? Could you move his arms? Move his legs?

That is conciousness.

yes, pls substitute scientific method by this

Like I said that is simply not possible. Your subconsciousness doesn't care, its just the way it was programmed.
>interpretation
AHAHAHAHAHAHA No suprise it has as much dislikes as likes, these are the kind of brainlets I'm talking about.
What does learning has to do with consciousness, we are not locked as long as it is possible to certain thing.
Why would I? Its quite simple, monkeys have the same amount of """consciousness"''" its just that we have better programmed brains.
Brain is programmed but that doesn't stop it from changing depending on the environment but like I said at the beginning its fixed and youre the experience of what your brain is doing, you have no choice, its the subconsciousness to say it simpler for brainlet like you.
""""Consciousness"""" is combination of sense that ''work" with the brain. Its just your brain doing its thing on a low level you cant in any way change it, that doesn't stop it of being self aware, it was supposed to happen.
Your brain working /= consciousness.
Yeah but that isn't really the same thing when its fixed

I'm , and you missed my point. I'm saying that free will is not the same as consciousness. While free will needs consciousness, conciousness does not need free will. Consciousness is merely a facilitator for experience, not for taking the wheel.

But that is not really consciousness since everything is just your brain processing the world. Will respond to the other questions later

Its not awareness, its your brain reacting to stimuli
Since you cant move your replica it means that you have consciousness? What?

Here's the problem, though. Under the premise that the world is deterministic, the existence of consciousness does not contradict that premise. Rather, the premise only renders consciousness incapable of changing the world, reducing it to merely a means of converting the state of the brain into qualia, assuming consciousness exists at all. This means that under the premise that the universe is deterministic, the existence of consciousness remains questionable, and not out of the question.

But you cant be aware if everything is predetermined thats not awareness since youre deteimed to act this way. Qualia is your unique brain reacting on stimuli nothing else

That's not what the definition of qualia is, but merely what leads to it, among other things (possibly). Also, you are again conflating free will and consciousness. Yes, consciousness is what would allow free will if it indeed exists, but that's not the full extent of it. Consciousness is, first and foremost, what allows experience. Even if your experiences are predetermined by extention of the world being predetermined and the world being all that affects your experiences, you would still have undergone experiences nevertheless, assuming consciousness does exist to facilitate that.

if theres no consciousness then what in my brain is trying to claim that it is consciousness?
like whats the label for that black box concept of awareness that makes me feel like I'm conscious?

Burden of proof
You are required to prove anything that YOU state to be true, and a lack of proof is not a proof.

FYI, telling others brainlets won't make you any smarter user

There is no experience just physical changes. Why is that so hard to get?
Because its wired like that. Of course it would get to the point of self awareness but doesn't mean that it is no more than a robot is. Something can't be a thing of its own if it was created.

Why are we even bothering to debate this guy if he has no conscious experience of being debated?

>There is no experience just physical changes. Why is that so hard to get?
Don't act as though that's what you've been saying. Now you've got to back that up as well in addition to your original claim.

You don't know the definition of consciousness.

youtube.com/watch?v=uq-gYOrU8bA

I think OP is confusing functional consciousness (behavior) with qualia.

> 2001 + 16 years later
> not being able to switch off your consciousness and see yourself in third person view
> not being able to travel with your mind between different points in your life like a video recording
> not being able to oob and explore other dimensions
> not being able to bend reality according to your will
> not experiencing death and ressurection in other dimensions

wtf is wrong with you brainlets?

We just haven't joined the dmt club yet

>Since you cant move your replica it means that you have consciousness? What?
It means your conciousness is the only reality you can prove. Your own self, your own perception, will be uniquely *you*, regardless of how many exact replicas of you they are out there. They will never be YOU, your own experience and perception.

Conciousness begets reality. The childlike efforts of those that think it is the other way around are futile, no matter how much you play with your blocks of hard matter.

Reality is one and indivisible.
One simple axiom.
"I think, therefore I exist".

That is the only objectively true axiom.
That is conciousness reduced to its most simple expression.

This seems to be true as far as you're concerned.

wtf I'm excused for being a fat friendless virgin NEET now?!
Thakns OP!

>There is no consciousness. [...] but there isn't any as everything is predetermined.
I think you've confused consciousness with free will. Consciousness being a thing isn't tied to whether reality is predetermined or not.

Free will is, to a degree, even then, assuming predestination, you still have free will from your limited perspective - and assuming there is no omniscient perspective, so do all sapient beings.

But consciousness doesn't give a damn. Be you witnessing dynamically unfolding events or watching a movie, you're still a witness.

well I am sapient, I think therefore I am, the evidence is irrefutable

maybe you are just a soulless philosophical zombie

>people thinking they can alter causality
laughingphysicists.jpeg

Are you fucking retarded? Why are you even on a science board? Your brain works via chemical processes, chemical processes follow laws of nature, ie your brain is a predetermined system

But that doesn't answer what consciousness is, either. Simply because you have a functioning brain does not equate to having consciousness, or self-awareness.

I have no idea what physical evolutionary trait allowed for us to evolve with self-awareness.

You read it in a book so it must be true.

>There is no consciousness.
> Feel free to prove me wrong
"proof" is nonsense if there is no consciousness, brainlet.

You look for proofs in reality, a reality you must be conscious of. Proof presupposes consciousness.

>Your brain works via chemical processes, chemical processes follow laws of nature, ie your brain is a predetermined system
How does that rule out consciousness?

Predetermined or not, consciousness is still consciousness. Same with gravity or photosynthesis. Inevitability does not negate its existence.

>science is about things that can be proven or dis proven, using the scientific method
>science is about a certain delimited subject matter
>scientific topics by definition admit of proof and disproof
>science by definition uses the scientific method
that's a lot of philosophy for an explicitly anti-philosophical post to contain

I think; therefore I am

I think you lack the sensibility required to understand softer matters that can't be further dissected; because doing so would tarnish their inherent value.
You also happen to be captive of your ego, your own little garden of thoughts, which fails to encompass the whole picture and will ultimately lead you to spiritual misery.

With that said I wish you all the best user and may you turn around and find the path to Theopolis.

>1. if determinism is true consciousness does not exist
>2. determinism is true
>3. therefore consciousness does not exist
1 and 2 are totally baseless
your argument is a joke

>There is no consciousness.
This is on a whole new level.
"I think therefore I am" is enough to disprove that.
>Why is this so hard for brainlets to comprehend?
If you are not conscious, you can not comprehend.
Your question alone demonstrates that you dont know what you are talking about.
>everything is predetermined.
That ancient thought got BTFO by quantum mechanics.

>That ancient thought got BTFO by quantum mechanics.
Eh, no it didn't (common Hollywood-sci misnomer)... But predestination is completely irrelevant to the question as to whether consciousness is a thing. OP is either confused, or baiting - perhaps both.

>tfw you can actually know about a noumenon
>that noumenon is you

>"I think therefore I am" is enough to disprove that.
How does "cogito ergo sum" prove that the human brain isn't a deterministic system?

This again? Why does determinism go against consciousness? Determinism contradicts free will, but not consciousness. Say all you want on free will, but the idea of consciousness is not shaken by determinism.

Okay

>the idea of consciousness is not shaken by determinism
How can you be conscious if your thoughts are more like stimuli that you respond to and not a product of your will?
In determinism your thoughts are basically sounds that the particles in your brain make, and other parts of your brain hear them, and then make more sounds in response. Your "consciousness" would therefore just be a feedback loop of electrical impulses that continues until you die, rather than something that you have agency over.

If the world were deterministic (which I am neither arguing for or against, but for the sake of argument, say it is), consciousness could be logically conceivable. In that case, if an agent were self aware, its self awareness and all its "decisions" would have been inevitable too. Whether or not conciousness is real, to say that consciousness would be disproven by determinism is a faulty argument. Sure, if the world were deterministic, then consciousness would be completely crippled in its ability to bring about free will. However, a crippled consciousness would still be a consciousness. That consciousness would be a slave to the laws of physics, like a paralyzed man with his eyes stitched open strapped in front of a television, or the blobbed man of "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream". In fact, all conscious beings would be even worse off than that, as they wouldn't even be able to control their own neurons, but in the end, they'd still be conscious beings. They'd just be incredibly helpless conscious beings.

I think I'm going to call it a night, but I'll try to get back to you as soon as I can.