What the fuck is mathematics? semantic architecture...

what the fuck is mathematics? semantic architecture? is it an application of just raw instinct to quantify notions or ideas and give them structure so that they can be consistent? where does consistency come from then, and why is it desired? where does mathematics stop being consistent? is there a limiting case or boundary where we stop having stable models for things like finding solutions to differential equations? is it always connected to the fundamental axioms or can they be surgically removed to be with something more supporting to ideas that aren't reliant on completion, consistency, structure, or quantity?

completion, consistency, structure, or quantity; where do all these properties intersect? can it be given a fundamental description?

mathematics is purity. its about what the world should be. a sphere is what we see when we look at a boulder or ball because we desire purity. the concept of smoothness, continuity, and diffusion all break down when we talk about reality because there is a discrete structure called atoms that make up our visible world. mathematics is archaic when encountering these models and is now self destructing due to the smoothness needed by relativity and the discreteness needed by quantum mechanics due to eigenvalues replacing degrees of freedom for elementary particles.

something newer will come that will treat mathematics like how mathematics treats philosophy; an idea that helps guide it but is too weak to bolster it against the relentless reality.

>what the fuck is mathematics?

Mathematics is logic of the highest level. It is when you turn off your human brain and wake up your inner eternal all powerful god and close your eyes to see a world much bigger than anything you will ever be, take some bits from it, and bring it to life.

Do you know what philosophers do? Well, imagine a philosopher but instead suppose he is actually intelligent. That is a mathematician.

>semantic architecture?
This is part of mathematics, though this is usually just contained in algebra.

>just raw instinct to quantify notions or ideas and give them structure so that they can be consistent?
In mathematics in general you cannot make things consistent because you are given consistent theories to begin with. But in meta-mathematics, where you look to create a theory in which mathematics can exist, the entire goal is to make it consistent so again, this is true about only a subfield of mathematics.

>where does consistency come from

Any mathematical logic book will define consistency. Consistency comes from that definition and that definition came from our desire to not have to worry too much because...

>why is it desired?
Because there is this thing called logical explosion that basically says that if you have an inconsistent theory, then everything is true and everything is false at the same time. Making any knowledge you extract from that theory literally meaningless. Therefore, only consistency can yield proper results.

>where does mathematics stop being consistent?
If you mean this literally then whenever we invent an inconsistent theory. If you mean this figuratively, when we poke at the outermost edge of mathematics, the fundamental axioms. Nobody really agrees on what the fundamental axioms should be, some mathematicians use some axioms, other mathematicians reject those same axioms. That's pretty inconsistent.

>is there a limiting case or boundary where we stop having stable models for things like finding solutions to differential equations?

Yeah, pretty trivial. As you know, there is no general formula to solve most differential equations. You can only reach general theorems when there is enough structure and with differential equations it is pretty easy to find something that has no structure at all and has to be tackled on its own.

>is it always connected to the fundamental axioms or can they be surgically removed to be with something more supporting to ideas that aren't reliant on completion, consistency, structure, or quantity?

Define completion.
And for the rest, yes it is.

completion such that you won't rely on a theorem to claim that another theorem is proven such that the proof relies on another theorem ad infinium until it just turns into a circular argument.

I see nothing wrong with a countable chain of proofs.

But if it is a circular argument in the sense that theorem A is proven by applying theorem B and then theorem B is proven by applying theorem A, that is just a fallacious argument.

So yeah, if you define completion like this then we need it and it is an important part of mathematics.

At the very bottom are the axioms of logic, so unless you want to prove something is true without relying on the validity of things like modus ponens, some circularity is going to be unavoidable.

>countable chain of proofs
You mean "finite".

A simple counterexample demonstrating that a countably infinite chain of proofs is invalid:

""Theorem"": The set of all natural numbers N is finite.
Proof 1: If N \ {0} is finite, then N is finite. (Here \ denotes set difference.)
Proof 2: If N \ {0, 1} is finite, then N \ {0} is finite.
Proof 3: If N \ {0, 1, 2} is finite, then N \ {0, 1} is finite.
...
Proof [math]\omega[/math]: If N \ N is finite, then N \ (N \ {0}) is finite.
Since N \ N is the empty set which is finite, N is finite.

Not writing it in TeX.

>muh syntax
Representing the set of natural numbers as N rather than [math]\mathbb{N}[/math] is not going to make the argument any less valid.

Mathematics is [math]not[/math] about syntax, although it is often [math]represented[/math] as a syntactic game of manipulation of formal symbols.
Just about every "paradox" of mathematical logic (Russell's, Cantor's, Girard's, Curry's, Skolem's, Burali-Forti's, Godel's, Tarski's, ...) arises from a conflation of the two.

I'm no expert on it, but there is a place where completion and consistency intersect. Formalized mathematics operates in formal systems with strict rules and only a few axioms. Interestingly Gödel proved that no consistent formal system of arithmetic can produce every truth, meaning there is somethings that are true, yet can't be proved formally. I think...

To answer that you should probably look back about 2000 years. Euclid's "Elements" builds up mathematics (geometry to be specific) from a set of axioms, things that can not be proven but seem to us like truth.
These axioms include:"Magnitudes which are equal to the same are equal to each other" or "the whole is greater then the part" and many more things that seem to be obvious.

From there on he defines things, like a point (something which has no parts), or a line (a length without breadth).

After having established this basic framework of Ideas (The book itself is a bit more complicated then I make it seem here), he builds theorems from these definitions of axioms, exploring what is possible within that framework by proving that additional things besides the axioms are also true.

Now, an important question is, how reality relates to the framework. It is notable that all the axioms seem to be part of our intuition, things we know as true which opens the possibility that the theorems he discovered and proved are also a part of reality.

The question of consistency now becomes very important. What if Euclid could prove that "a part greater then the whole" could exist?
If the theorems he proved are applicable to reality (and to this day they are used everywhere, think of Pythagoras theorem which Euclid proves in his book) and these axioms lead to contradictions, then this has disturbing consequences.

Could it be possible that reality itself is inconsistent? Or are the things we thought of as truth in fact wrong? Both of these things seem terrifying if you think about it. That is why mathematicians care so much about consistency, an inconsistent system questions how we think about the world surrounding us and how we understand it.

Use [math] \TeX [/math] you pleb.

Not OP, but why is there math? Why is there math instead of no math? Is this the same as the question of why is there something instead of nothing?

Is it just that only universes which support math and logic in this way are capable of creating sentient objects capable of contemplating whether there is math?

No, you can't develop life with "purity". You need difference, i.e. imperfection, for life to arise.

it's set of rules

and applications of said set of rules

>raw instinct
...as opposed to...cooked instinct?

the nature of math is really fucking weird
people tend to believe that math is just semantics and deduction, we're just following a nice set of axioms and seeing where it takes us
but it's not, the axioms are chosen to fit the math and not the other way around
so what the fuck is math? who knows, but mathematicians know when something is good math and when something isn't, because they have this mysterious ability called "intuition"

Quantifying experienced phenomena using the scientific method. Its how we communicate our perceived logic to explain the universe in its most fundamental form: a set of variables that can be used to define, explain and predict a process in a quantitative manner.

Ask Veeky Forums pseud

you're literally using a shitload of buzzwords to say "this is science"
and math isn't even science

Or I could be trying to use the most correct words to try and communicate my thoughts. Explain how math does not use the scientific method.

what do you mean by this? why wouldn't a countably infinite proof be true? isn't that what induction is?

or what about inductive definitions of N? they go from 0 and prove every element of N inductively with a countably infinite chain of implications that starts from 0 and goes into infinity, each implication proving every element of N is in N, one at a time

you could, but you're not
math does not make models that fit observations

How does math not create models that fit observations? That is exactly what math does, it uses a set of defined variables to explain observations. You just sound like an engineer with a shitty vocabulary.

it doesn't
it has nothing to with observations
>HURR YOU CANT DISAGREE WITH ME OR YOU'RE AN ENGINEER
>SHITTY VOCABULARY, NOT ENLIGHTENED LIKE ME
you're a retarded autist honestly

Actually, it does. If I throw a ball in the air, I can create a mathematical model which will explain the process using defined variables in a quantitative manner. You also aren't providing an argument to disprove anything I'm saying other than saying "it doesn't."

So easy to become agitated too. I'd guess you are majoring in women studies by your reaction. An engineer would never say mathematics can't create a model to explain observations.

if you're looking at the movement of a ball and using a model to describe it you're doing physics. this is really simple.

>not an argument
>YOU'RE AGITATED SO YOU'RE WRONG
>WOMEN STUDIES MAJOR LMAO
>you said math can't create models !!! wtf I hate you now
you're a fucking retard, stop padding your posts with useless bullshit

>Physics doesn't use math
And you're calling me the retard. I can just as easily name a situation in almost any field of science where a mathematical model can be used to explain a process. I actually can't tell if you're pulling my leg. You're that stupid.

>I am stupid and I love sucking dicks
yeah I agree

a contest to see who can derive the most interesting results from a set of base axioms