Salvation

>As an atheist, how do I find salvation
You choose annihilation, you get what you pay for.

Or, if there is any merit to Pascal's idiocy, even worse.

>Can you put it in terms a retard would understand for me?
youtube.com/watch?v=u2j578jTBCY

Why do you want to feel less "eaten up inside"?

I've considered this question in 2 respects.

The first, that the underlying and persistent desire to be other than we are, to be redeemed, so to speak, is proof of man's essential goodness. He suffers from the evil he commits, he understands wrong to be wrong, so although he is corrupted, he is not fundamentally so. That is an encouraging thought, and one I'd seek as regular recourse in my younger days.

The second, which has quite won me over through the years is this...that the aforementioned unyielding desire for redemption is instead proof of man's hopelessness. He wants so thoroughly at odds with his reality...how can this be? Because he has learned to want it. These feelings are not intrinsic, they are learned. Man is so subject to conditioning, so much a slave to his surroundings, and his fellow slaves, that he exists in a world of contradictions that he cannot hope to escape. He is malleable in the worst way, anything can be learned, but not unlearned. What conditions us when we are young haunts us until we are old.

>proof of man's essential goodness
What if it was man's incapability of forgiving himself, instead?

The two are arguably the same thing.

>It's not comfortable, and you might find that entering into a more honest state with others can actually be intensely challenging. But living without unnecessary guilt (you're never going to live up to all your expectations, after all, so the best you can hope for is avoiding guilt you don't deserve) - and completely without shame (shame is the real killer; nobody deserves shame) - is absolutely worth the ardor.
Is it shame...or guilt?

As I understand it narcissists cannot feel the latter. Which is a common brand of maladjustment today.

Then what if this self-imposed moral judgement of being unforgivable is incorrect?

I don't see how judge, jury, executioner and accused being the same person would automatically mean infallible justice or essential goodness is produced.

Man can torture himself over little inconsequential shit he can't let go either, you see.

>Then what if this self-imposed moral judgement of being unforgivable is incorrect?
Wrongs cannot be undone.

Full quote, parsed with commentary:
>Man, your head is haunted; you have wheels in your head!
We all believe in ghosts; our worldview is "haunted" with the unreal constructs of society. Specifically, the "wheels" may be a reference to the prophet Ezekiel, who saw a wheel in the sky.
>You imagine great things, and depict to yourself a whole world of gods that has an existence for you, a spirit-realm to which you suppose yourself to be called, an ideal that beckons to you.
Your entire life, you've probably aspired to "become" something - some career or archetype or ideal. That thing you're thinking of and constantly striving toward? Just like Sinbad playing that genie in Shazam, it doesn't fucking exist.
>You have a fixed idea! Do not think that I am jesting or speaking figuratively when I regard those persons who cling to the Higher, and (because the vast majority belongs under this head) almost the whole world of men, as veritable fools, fools in a madhouse.
We put people in institutions for talking to imaginary people and chasing after invisible foes, yet we treat the religious belief of those who try to please God as some kind of exception - that's wack AF, because God's just a character in a book; would you trust someone who talks to Huckleberry Finn, for fuck's sake?
>What is it, then, that is called a "fixed idea"? An idea that has subjected the man to itself. When you recognize, with regard to such a fixed idea, that it is a folly, you shut its slave up in an asylum.
When you go full-woke-as-fuck on this idea, you realize that even non-religious people are slaves to some kind of god, whether it's the idea of being rich, or attractive, or famous - when you realize that it's just a meme and ultimately bullshit marketing, you become free from it.
>And is the truth of the faith, say, which we are not to doubt; the majesty of (e. g.) the people, which we are not to strike at (he who does is guilty of — lese-majesty); virtue, against which the censor is not to let a word pass, that morality may be kept pure; — are these not "fixed ideas"?
These are all pretty specifically French references, because they have laws in France based on "the majesty of the people" (remember that whole revolution thing from like the late 18th century? Jean Vealjean and shit? That stuff)
>Is not all the stupid chatter of (e. g.) most of our newspapers the babble of fools who suffer from the fixed idea of morality, legality, Christianity, etc., and only seem to go about free because the madhouse in which they walk takes in so broad a space?
Again, once you realize that god is fictitious, then where do you draw the line? Isn't morality itself a bullshit construct? Aren't we all crazy for thinking there's some sort of order we should follow, like loonies in one giant madhouse of society who have been tricked into thinking there's someone in charge of the ward?

tl;dr: Everything - God, Justice, Heroes - is a meme.

>As an atheist, how do I find salvation, from a psychological perspective?
You don't.

>Surely there is a path to redemption for a non believer
Nope.

>Wrongs cannot be undone.
No need for a trial, then.

>He is malleable in the worst way, anything can be learned, but not unlearned. What conditions us when we are young haunts us until we are old.
Fucking too true... yet not true at all. We break the spell by remembering. Even though memory is a cloud of piecemeal illusion, it carries with it the feelings of innocence that we must cling to throughout the storm of experience. We may be haunted by our conditioning, but when we remember that the ghosts only live on our attention, we perform the banishment of our own salvation.

Future wrongs can be prevented, but a guilty person will forever be guilty of whatever they did.

The sub-conscious says hello, in between informing basically every single thing you do that is.

And there is no point in judging a deed because it occurs always after it, no point in reparations because not matter how greater than the deed it cannot be undone, and no point in forgiveness because you are guilty forever of the deed.

No wonder consequentialism is more fashionable.

Once you realize that basically everything is a spook, you don't have to worry about this anymore. Salvation and redemption are spooks.

Guilt implies ownership of an action that led to a negative consequence. I'm guilty because I did something I knew would hurt someone.

Shame is an irredeemable state of self-loathing, and cannot be expiated. I am ashamed of feelings and urges I have which I can not control.

The difference is huge, because guilt can be useful, and shame cannot. You have agency and memory, so you can control your actions to avoid feeling guilty; shame is unavoidable because it's based on that over which you have no control. Fuck shame.

Also, yes; narcissists and sociopaths both realize that on a phenomenological level, others' feelings mean literally nothing to anyone except them. It's increasingly common because we have so successfully catered to the consumer model of emotional catering while simultaneously dehumanizing the mechanism through which these services are provided that we have a generation of people who don't actually realize the degree of suffering that has gone into building the world for them. And why should they? Their so-called "entitlement" is essentially the byproduct of a centuries-old history of trying to create a machine that makes us happy and does all our work for us; we just assumed that the reduction of work would result in an increase of empathy, which was a foolish thing to do.

What a thoughtful and useful response to OP's question. You must be proud.

Yuppers. Gotta realize that if you don't live in a persistent state of doubt about basically everything you see, hear, taste, smell, touch, and think, then you aren't paying enough attention. You have to start saying "'sup, foo'?" right back at it.

zazen

By the same logic, you are forever a champion and a hero for any good you do.

The problem comes from imagining that we are only one thing, or that the things we are must somehow be exclusionary. It's not a zero-sum game. Read your Whitman: "I am large; I contain multitudes."

The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.

Read your Shakespeare. Transgressions weigh heavier in the human conscious.

>I am ashamed of feelings and urges I have which I can not control.
[citation needed]

OP doesn't want to contain multitudes. He wants a mastery of self, to be in a preferential mode.

Whitman was literally a faggot, of course he'd speak in such equivocations. Everything is not permissible.

Yeah; we tend to ruminate on negative memories three times longer than reflect on positive ones. That just means we know our patterns; it's not a fucking curse. Being human is a meme anyway, isn't it?

If OP wants mastery of self, then she doesn't want salvation. It's not about being able to choose your preferential mode, it's about accepting that you can't. If we could, don't you think we'd always select joy? It obviously doesn't work like that, though, because happiness and sadness are in a dialectical relationship - they define each other. You want things you can't have, and you have things you don't want. Sometimes, however, you only feel like you can't have something because you're afraid of facing the consequences of it, and so you do it in secret, and you face all kinds of conflict and guilt because you are now vulnerable to being exposed. This is a terrible place to be, but most of the time what you're imagining will happen is much worse than what will happen, so it's better to live openly and know that lying to yourself is never possible in the long-term.

Buddhism, friend. Understand what it means to be okay with being.

Read St. Augustine. Engaged in fucked up cults believing there's eternal battle on earth between the good and the evil, still managed to be the greatest christian saint. He helped me. Also some polish baroque poetry, especially magnificent works of Mikołaj Sęp Szarzyński, but I don't recommend them for anyone who's not polish native speaker (although Richard Sokolowski's english translation of Sęp's Sonnets is not that bad, I've read it). Something in similiar tone would be anything written from perspective of XVI century protestant converting to catholicism. These guys lived in serious doubt about their pre-catholic life. For me, a non-religious person, it was very easy to relate, even tho my doubt concerned my life from perspective of succes as a person, their -- of salvation.

the theme of redemption has been a huge part of my life; even during my atheist phase where I stayed involved in the church solely for the reason of charity. I've seen more addicts, ex-cons, gang members, alcoholics, and abusive people reduced to tears at the stage(I'm a musician) seeking forgiveness from their families and people they've hurt than I could tell you. It's literally in the hundreds.
I have hurt the people closest to me, lost sleep because of shame and tried to manage the weight of guilt through everyday life. Even though I'm somewhat of a Christian i didn't seek divine absolution; I'm only interested in being forgiven by the people ive hurt.
anyway, maybe I can help.

First, redemption will never be found in the past. you can't look back and say "they blew it out if proportion" or "I was drunk at the time" or anything like that. That doesn't retroactively turn you into a better person. Focus on you now, today.

Talk to them about it, if that's a possibility. Not to defend yourself, or explain yourself, just listen to their thoughts and feelings.

Fill every day between then and now with self improvement. genuine self improvement, not that defeated "I'm a piece of shit" attitude. Every day until it becomes you, until goodness is a part of your character, and until your past actions feel like a distant hiccup

be better BECAUSE OF it. you'll know when you genuinely love yourself because youll stop regretting your past and see it more as the resentful catalyst that turned you into a better person.

Understand that you apologizing and a person accepting the apology are two different things. it sucks, but a person cannot absolve you, you have to be in the right yourself and hope they see it. Whether or not they still hate you, be better for you.

Allow yourself to be happy. Don't convince yourself you don't deserve to live a happy, productive, loving life.

self-help bullshit. give some good lit recommendations. what are you, a fucking barbarian? think with literature.

Wow, a whole thread full of fart-smelling pedants. Salvation from an atheist perspective?? Oh duh read Augustine read Buddhist bullshit blahj blah blah. Are you guys for real?? OP you're so self-involved you realized you were a dick to your parents and a shitty friend and now you want "salvation?" How retarded are you? Just stop being a shitty person you idiot. My god this whole board must be populated entirely by insufferable undergrads

what exactly have you done?

the latter half of Siddhartha is going to tell you what i just told you

>reading Hacksse
please, friendo

You won't understand that need, you lack the religious within. I pity your empty life.

I can see why your life is a struggle for you, you're just a dick. a book isn't gonna fix that and neither am i

>implying I'm searching for salvation
I'm just sitting here giving people book titles to read. No need for salvation for me.

DMT

Let me ask you a question:

Do you have direct convictions against Jesus Christ?

Boggle reference detected. Good jorb, mang.