Denies climate science

We don't have a "culture" of science denialism. The majority of people in my country deny science to varying degrees and about different things, mostly for political reasons. Conservatives deny a bit more science than liberals do, and to be honest I think we need to be blaming the liberals at least a little for that one. Liberals have been basically marketing science as a liberal achievement, so of course conservatives wont listen to a lot of it and it is really stupid for liberals to be doing that. And liberals deny their own share of scientific truth. How about that totally rational fear of nuclear energy? Hell, a huge number of liberals under the age of 20 are fucking socialist, a belief that flies in the face of all modern empirical economic science. The zero sum game is literally the economic equivalent of creationism, and it is a false doctrine that is responsible for both redistributionism on the left as well as nativism/protectionism on the right. It doesn't matter what your political leanings are, no matter what role you believe the government should take in society, believing this kind of unscientific nonsense is stupid.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Trump isn't an ivory tower elitist he's just on the bottom of the elite, or he was prior to winning the presidency. The ivory tower elitists are people like Obama who never felt shy about voicing their contempt for the ignorant masses of the working class.

> implies that all rich fucks are conservatives
Lol dude wake the fuck up.

>listen guys we're all going to be fucked if we don't phase out fossil fuels
>HURR DURR MY INCOME IM TOO RETARDED TO RETRAIN FOR ANOTHER WORKING CLASS JOB

> is liberal, believes that it is cruel to expect poor people to "just get a job".
> is liberal, thinks working people whose livelihood is built on oil should be able to adapt to harsh environmental regulations and carbon taxes.

This is the kind of sentiment that drives people away and makes them not want anything to do with what you're selling.

That aside a lot of people are too stupid to retrain for a new job. There are also a lot of towns and cities where there is exactly one real employer and if you live in that town or city you work at that employer your whole life and when they leave the town dies because the only other place to work is a Walmart. Even if they can just retrain and switch careers they're likely going to be taking a massive pay cut which is typically really hard on working class families.

There are a million reasons they don't want to lose their jobs and being told "guys X is gonna happen and you're all gonna lose your jobs but you're fucking stupid if you don't go along with this" isn't going to change any minds. I imagine the reason you see this kind of rhetoric so often in the left is because the majority of leftists have never actually had to deal with anyone from the working class or even had a real job themselves.

Mass lobotimization of anti-intellectuals for use as specialized material in prototypes of wetware CPU is what I would say if I didn't think about it a little more and realize that the material would be sub-par at best due to the anti-intellectuals naturally low intelligence.

>implying few degrees warmer causes any harm
>implying warmer climate is due humans
>implying CHINA doesn't make nearly all the emissions
>implying we westeners should suffer
>implying immigrants will not cause CO2 emissios
>implying higher CO2 wouldn't help agriculture
>implying vaccines cannot cause harm. Recently the swine flu vaccine Pandemrix had Mercury on it, causing proovenly many cases of narcolepsy

>You're mean, that's why no one listens to you
And this is why no one listens to you.

Even if such a fantasy of global warming does exist, it wouldn't even be a problem for us. Just a nicer summer.

Thank you for being a tripfag easier to filter retards.

This. I'm tired of having half of the year such a cold climate.

...

Realistic answer: let the South become its own country again. The Southern cancer has spread everywhere but the Northeast, West coast, and Texas.

You always like to blame the south, yet the north make all the CO2 emissions

Checkmate

Because it's backwards and less industrialized. The Dixification of the Right in America has been a disaster.

>Apparently censoring open discussion is your thing.
>*proceeds to censor any open discussion against climate alarmist*

>Liberals have been basically marketing science as a liberal achievement, so of course conservatives wont listen to a lot of it

This right here is the real problem. Politics has become a sporting event. It's about blaming and "beating" the other side.

Like usual the main problem is being ignored here: the top minds of the left are blatantly anti-white and this is why the working class is against them. It doesn't matter how "pro-science" you are, if one of your agendas is demographically replacing the white working class, then they will feel threatened by you and not want to work with you.

Climate change is real, and we need to do something about it, but stop combining that message with anti-white rhetoric.

theguardian.com/environment/2009/may/29/1

Conservatives like science when it is applied to national defense. American conservatives don't like climate science because it implies federal/international government action to resolve the problem (bad), and tax hikes (worse). The only function of the Republican party is to cut taxes. If it is not cutting taxes it has no function. They know this.

I forgot that there is a religious element to rejection of climate science. God wouldn't allow the kind of calamities climate scientists talk about because God is ultimately in control.

You liberals should be thankful, they helped the north east and California to continue their money gaining by carbon emissions.

>Trump may appoint an anti-vaccine activist to run a commission on immunization safety
Is this true?

>Global warming causes 300,000 deaths a year
>The populations most at risk it says, are in sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, south Asia and the small island states of the Pacific.

Literally not a western problem and definitely not my problem.

>This. The working class's attachment to coal and other fossil fuels isn't due to an evil agenda, it's because there are families that are losing income as coal is phased out.

A dangerous combination:
- Personal reliance on coal
- Free market libertarian idealogue.

If only the government could help them out while destroying their jobs, such as by welfare, job training, giving new jobs, etc. Fucking shitters (the coal people, not the government).

> Liberals have been basically marketing science as a liberal achievement

It is. Science sure as hell isn't a religious achievement. When you're dealing with a population where like half of them (half of Republicans) claim to believe in a literal 6000 year old year, you're doomed from the start.

> Hell, a huge number of liberals under the age of 20 are fucking socialist, a belief that flies in the face of all modern empirical economic science.

Then why do the best countries on Earth have social-democratic economics?

Here is the problem: They will start moving to your country, where they will bring crime and Islam, rapidly making themselves your problem.

gb2 Yes. Many / most of his cabinet appointments have been people who believe that their government department should be destroyed, including the department of energy, department of education, etc. It's basically literally true that he picked the worst possible person for practically every cabinet position. It's impressive, from a certain perspective.

>job training, giving new jobs
That would be my answer. Make a government program that allows coal workers first access to training and job placement in renewable energy fields.

And that problem is solved by electing leaders like Trump. A patriotic leader prevents muslims and negros immigrating into their countries. Sadly Le Pen didn't win in France and they have to suffer the liberal Macron's tyranny.

>not a western problem
of the western countries the US is most vulnerable

It's not /pol/, it's just true. This is why the working class don't support the left, it's because the modern left has an anti white agenda and it is an open part of their policy. Before you say "go back to /pol" why not consider the truth of it?

Of course, some country has to be in the last place of the best league. Luckily for me, I don't live in USA.

I win so much and lose so little. Thanks Trump!

He know that it is true, but doesn't care becouse he is not a white.

Because government spending money on shit != socialism. Socialist believe in the redistribution of wealth, which is based on the belief that one mans success must be due to another mans failure. The rich are rich because the poor and poor, is the idea. As you say, government spending a lot of money without trouble is common in countries that have successful economies that create a lot of wealth. You don't see successful versions of this in countries that don't produce a lot of wealth. Government necessarily spends with the wealth created by capitalism, as the saying goes.

>people like Obama who never felt shy about voicing their contempt for the ignorant masses of the working class
When did he do that?

presumably when he talked about people clinging to guns and religion. not that he's really wrong, but the feefees of rural America are not to be hurt.

What I don't get is that the same people who go on about this will be the same that says that Muslims should be dragged kicking and screaming into the present/civilization by any means necessary.

Alright, fine. But no fucking exceptions. Fuck that 'muh way of life'/'respect MY beliefs' bullshit if it means everyone else has to suffer because it.
Hundreds of years ago, people were begging for cures to these diseases, and now because people are too stupid, ancient diseases I haven't heard spoke about in 20 years are coming.

Fuck you. Adapt or die.

>You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
Remember this quote from 2008? It's a beautiful example of the classic leftist rhetoric where while assuring you that they know better, they also put you down for having an interest in guns, or going to church, or not wanting to see illegal immigrants flood into the place you live. They talk down to the working class like an adult talks down to a child and while the left may think they're too stupid to notice but they obviously do. The idea that the working class can only be wrong and bitter when they're clearly getting a shitty deal and want that to change is why the Democrats lost the election.

>What I don't get is that the same people who go on about this will be the same that says that Muslims should be dragged kicking and screaming into the present/civilization by any means necessary.
Blame guilt over slavery/Nazism/the British Empire.

Rural America is actually backwards, though. Admitting this is the first step to productive change, in particular, admitting that the 70k/year assembly line jobs for highschool dropouts are not coming back, or that Earth is in fact not 6000 years old, and so on.

>bitter when they're clearly getting a shitty deal
But the Republicans fuck them harder than any Democrat candidate.

Rural white voter here. Voting for Trump was possibly the biggest mistake of my life. Probably the worst president we've had in the last 500 years. We must impeach him now and lock up his most fervent supporters. The travel ban is racist and the white house is literally full of islamophobic texts and art. Hate can only be defeated by destroying it from the top down.

On top of his blatant racism, now he is literally destroying the planet earth and ruining young and promising female entertainers' lives. What about our children? Do the right thing, fellow rural white voters. Call your senator or congressman and set things right.

Nikki Haley just said Trump believes climate change is real AND that it is manmade. But American coal jobs and farriery are still more important.

>How do we fix America and it's culture of science denialism and illiteracy?

We should start my ending the push for making pseudo-science a social norm. Fucking gender fluidity, from Bill Nye? The same guy that is one of the forerunners for climate change debate? Good job discrediting any position that Bill agrees with.

You have effectively shot yourselves in the foot. Anyone that has any sort of rational thought based in fact will now associate the entire leftist ideals as quackery bullshit. But maybe that's for the best.

>le bill nye
end ur lyfe

>Why do Republican voters let themselves be fucked by the Republican party?
Stockholm syndrome

>the political ideology opposite to liberalism is religion
>mixed economy social democracies and socialism are the same
You're a dumb motherfucker. You might just be a creationist, that's how dumb you are.

When you are validated within 1 minute of posting...

When we work together to destroy retarded SJW ideology, and ONLY support sciences based in fact, then will normal people get behind newer scientific theories.

The point is: you say the same shit over and over. It's painful to listen to people like you. Craft original viewpoints

Rural America is actually backwards, though. Admitting this is the first step to productive change, in particular, admitting that the 70k/year assembly line jobs for highschool dropouts are not coming back, or that Earth is in fact not 6000 years old, and so on.
The only people making 70k a year doing assembly work are members of the United Automobile Workers union and those jobs are never leaving. It was the 30-40k dollar jobs leaving or being depressed to where they're now 25k dollar jobs that really fucked everything up.

The number of Evangelicals is often massively overstated for what's suppose to be comedic effect and it's again pretty condescending to imply that everyone who doesn't live in a city is a retarded hick who thinks the world was created 6000 years ago and the end of days are coming.

Yeah but they don't act like condescending pricks when they're doing it, they act like they're one of those boys. They put on their blue jeans, go out to the range to shoot some guns, and do a photo op of them eating a big rack of ribs with a can of Budweiser.

>He fucked me in the ass, yeah, but at least I'd still have a beer with him!
Definition of a useful buttboy

Those are the ignorant Christians that believe that. Too many Christians don't understand the true teaching of Christ which would explain that we determine what happens to us WHILE "God" watches and still knows what happens.

America has a lot of ignorant Christians.

If we're being real everyone is a useful buttboy.

Can't disagree there

>it is
I don't know if you are American, but people like you are the reason Hillary lost the election. Science is the achievement of no political ideology. Yes, most conservatives are religious and believe in their doctrine even when it conflicts with fact. But what exactly does wanting the government to adhere to the restrictions as set by the constitution have to do with ones ability to conduct rigorous research? For clarity, I am not talking about specifically the Republican Party, only about small government political theory in general. You simply can not argue that liberal politics is responsible for modern scientific thought, and the insistence that this is true is insulting as fuck.

when did he do those last 3?

not arguing that he didn't, but I legitimatley don't know that he did

It's painful to hear that we should only get behind theories based in fact on Veeky Forums?

Buddy you're on the wrong board.

No the incessant Bill Nye whining. If you want to be taken seriously you should stop memeing.

Never go full retard.

Increase in extreme weather including drought is a part of climate change. Say it is not a western problem when more hurricanes and extreme droughts hit the US and the rest of the western nations

Science is a philosophy. Science is also political. The practice of science depends on certain political and cultural institutions. The results of science have huge political impact.

Science is antithetical to religious faith. They are opposites. To the extent that the "small government party" can be identified with religion - and it can - then science is an outcome of liberal politics, the rejection of religious authorities, and the democratization of knowledge and authority.

>MUH LEFT MUH RIGHT

How does it feel to be empty inside user?

Your on /sci, bring some evidence to back up your claims.

No one ever got anywhere by being nice. The only way that we make social progress is by whining a whole hell of a lot, and making the other side feel as socially uncomfortable as possible.

It's a myth that MLK Jr was a nice guy, a non-confontrationist. He succeeded precisely because he was so in-your-face. In today's language of the Republicans, he's was an economist terrorist who targeted the economies of entire cities via various boycotts and sit-ins. If MLK Jr was alive today, there is not a doubt that he would had a favorable opinion of highway blockades as a means of protest.

You need to read his Letter From A Birmingham Jail. You are the white moderate in his letter.

He succeeded because America has always been a country of negro lovers, especially in the post ww2 period where US leadership turned their backs on whites

It's not MLK who actually did anything beyond get fed speeches by communists, and get jerked off by the media.
It's the left wingers infiltrating government/media/business who pushed the whole civil rights agenda

I actually like the Catholic church, they preserved knowledge, tried to remove superstition and are willing to adapt to the world. The worst that has come from Christianity, especially in the modern time period are protestants, who revived superstition, promote anti-intellectualism, and have been behind multiple murders.

I don't know why so many people in the thread jumped down my throat for stating the reality of the situation. The only political opinion I've expressed in this thread is sympathy for the working class and the situation they find themselves in.

I didn't jump down your throat I just asked how it feels to be empty inside thats all.

How is it?

>I didn't jump down your throat
How else would you know what's inside me?

strangely enough this isnt an argument.

>science is a philosophy
No it most definitely is fucking not. Science is a process. It's a method. It is a discourse community. Saying that all scientists must have the same worldview is arrogant as fuck.

>science relies on political institutions
I agree with what you are trying to say here. However, science itself still has nothing to do with politics because, again, it is a process. It is also technically not true. Although I agree that government should fund science, a lot of science has been funded privately throughout history. Most scientists back in the old days were very wealthy people and they funded their own projects.

>science has political impact

Scientific results have political impact. Scientists as people have political impact. The scientific fucking method, which is what science fucking is, does not have a single fucking thing to do with what I want my government doing with our tax money.

>science is the opposite of religion.

No it isn't and I'm tired of people saying this. There is absolutely nothing preventing religious people from practicing science professionally. Although they are in the minority, lots of religious people can and have contributed to scientific progress. Some have even contributed in a significant way. If you are a scientist, your research probably stands on the shoulders of religious scientists.

so much stupid in one post. or is this satire? i can't tell anymore

Who still believes in majority man made climate change?

>retard is demonstrably retarded
>gets elected and does retarded things
>oh my god, he's being retarded?!!!
And the best part of it is the other candidate was also retarded too, so there was barely any choice. USA, best country in the world

>>science is a philosophy
>No it most definitely is fucking not.
Yes, it is. The practice of science is only possible when one holds certain preconceived notions and values, such as the value of conforming one's beliefs according to the evidence, and the belief that evidence and proper reasoning trumps all other arguments, etc. Science is a value system.

>No it isn't and I'm tired of people saying this. There is absolutely nothing preventing religious people from practicing science professionally.
Yes, there is. The religious mindset is incompatible with the scientific mindset. A person can be religious and also a good scientist, but not at the same time. They can be a good scientist /in spite of/ being religious. Being religious makes it harder to be a good scientist.

A. There were more than just 2 candidates. If any election could've taken the blinders off of voters, it was this one. Retarded electorate = retarded president.

B. If that "other candidate" was Bernie, we'd be better off, and A would be a moot point.

not that user but it doesn't feel good

Let me guess, do you think that whole "rich getting richer and poor getting poorer" phenomenon is a causal relationship? Or are you an "America first" twat that thinks the scary Mexicans are stealing from a somehow finite supply of available jobs? Read a book.

mexicans are taking our covfefes

>science is a value system

If this is true, then why do scientists not agree on what values are scientific? This kind of flies in the face of what scientific discourse is supposed to be all about. The whole point of science is that the only ideas that are taken seriously in a scientific setting are those that can be demonstrated, or can at least be deduced by an existing model. Can these values you speak of be deduced from a model? Can they be demonstrated empirically? Also, how does science as a value system play into the actual results I publish? Are my results invalidated if I don't have the right worldview? Of course not. What possible utility is there in insisting that science is a value system if not all practicing scientists believe in the value system? It's silly.

>people are not religious and scientists at the same time.

Look, I think this is a true statement and is probably something that a lot of religious people need to think about, but you are still attributing way too much to what science is supposed to be about. The validity of a scientific result is not validated or invalidated in any way by the scientists religious beliefs. Obviously. So what is the point? It's not like you would ever use the world "science" like that in a sentence. When you say "I do science" you are talking about research. When you say "I studied science" you mean that you studied scientific results and methodology. When you say "try to be scientific" you mean to think objectively, reason deductively or inductively, and to not base decisions on emotion. Non of these things are worldviews or value systems.

>only ideas that are taken seriously in a scientific setting are those that can be demonstrated
That's a value.

> or can at least be deduced by an existing model
Also a value.

In particular, look at the language that you're using "taken seriously". That implies that other ideas shouldn't be taken seriously. Also look at some of your other language, "should". "Should" is a word that appears in moral commands, e.g. value statements. You just stated a value statement.

Well, empiricism is very much a value system, or at least a philosophic set of ideas, and it is very much based in the scientific method. Perhaps read some Lock or Hume.

No, they are conventions. If you submit a paper and it is rejected, it is entirely possible that everyone who reviewed it was actually convinced of your result. It is not required that a scientist is only convinced of ideas that are demonstrated using flawless scientific methodology, just that those ideas don't get published alongside actual science. [spoiler][/spoiler]If a result is rejected by the discourse community for being unscientific, it is for no other reason than that the result is unscientific and it doesn't belong with scientific results. It is not because the scientist do not value the results/ideas, it is categorization. Science works the way it does because it wouldn't be science otherwise. Scientists participate in science, probably, because they value the process, but they are not required to and that value cannot be said to be a part of what science is. Science is a method and a discourse community. Stop adding extra shit. This whole conversation started because I blamed your way of thinking on the result of last election. You want to argue about that? Because a lot of people actually agree that science is politics, and they will never listen to climate science because if that belief. So what's your approach to that issue? Line in the sand? Vote for my favorite leader because science? Is that not a total bastardization of what science is supposed to be about?

You don't need to be an empiricist to conduct valid research.

And you don't need to be religious in order to perform a successful sermon in a church. What's your point?

A scientist can take seriously whatever ideas he or she pleases, the only requirement is that such ideas are not considered science. It is categorization. The idea that true scientists only believe things that can be demonstrated scientifically is a fucking fantasy, and saying that someone is less of a scientist for holding unscientific opinions is fucking arrogant.

That science is, according to your analogy, nothing more than the sermon. Stop making it more.