What the fuck, this is it? What happened to Orin, he got murdered by the leafs? What about Pemulis...

>Is Hal fucked forever now?
No I don't think so, his condition was already improving in the year of Glad leading up to the Whataburger.

My understanding was that the DMZ and the Entertainment were supposed to go together for Hal. Read this:
aaronsw.com/weblog/ijend

My main problem with the theory that orin had the master cartridge is just that.

Orin's a fucking idiot, there is no way he could pull it off. also isn't it implied the master cartridge is in the Antotoi's shop? why the hell would Orin give it to them, he live's in Tuscon.

My personal theory is that Mario had the master cartridge, it sounds batshit but think about it.

Also, does Veeky Forums think Luria P is Avril?

I was originally skeptical but I realised that only someone close to orin would know about his fear of roaches, so that would imply Avril is atleast something to the AFR.

Here's why I think Orin was mailing out cartridges:
He mentions to Hal being in a post office, when Hal asks him why, since he hates "snail mail" and stopped replying to the moms letters awhile ago, Orin simply doesn't respond.

Orin clearly has some mother issues, and the people receiving tapes (i.e. the medical attache) are people that Avril had slept with, i.e. ruined his parents relationship, in his mind.

> isn't it implied the master cartridge is in the Antotoi's shop
Yes it was, but remember that the book is told out of order, by the first chapter (year of glad) Orin had already gotten it and has made copies.

>why the hell would Orin give it to them, he live's in Tuscon
I think it is implied that Sixties Bob gave them the tape (unknowingly) and Orin found it. He also got the anti-Entertainment from JOIs head, which inadvertently released JOIs ghost

I haven't read it in a while and may be making mistakes. Feel free to correct me.

Hal's condition was improving? Where did you get that?

What's to pull off? It doesn't take a genius to dig up your dad's grave. Also keep in mind it's possible JOI's wraith has something to do with Orin's actions once he lets it out

Seems doubtful that Avril is Luria P, but if you have anything else from the text that would suggest this, I'd be more inclined to believe.

Yes, but what would drive Orin to dig his dad's grave up in the first place?

If Orin hates Avril and tavis so much, why is he killing the attaché and not them?

My personal theory is that Mario has something to do with Poor Yorick entertainment , distributing the cartridge's to his late father's enemies. James/mario , unlike Orin would NOT want avril dead.

Avril also is implied to have raped Orin anyways so why wouldn't he kill her?

Look I know it's a big book and the plot is purposefully abstruse, but this theory is complete conjecture. The core of it relies on JOI's wraith spiking Hal's toothpaste with DMZ, which Schwartz explains as:

"[JOI] places the DMZ on Hal’s brush and Hal brushes his teeth (860)"

The syntax here is highly misleading. Nowhere in the text does it state explicitly or implicitly that JOI places the DMZ on the toothbrush; so Schwartz' "(860)" refers only to the part about Hal brushing his text. Setting the sentence out this way, however, is meant to give the illusion to the reader of this blogpost that both are documented on this page.

Schwartz gets some things right, like Hal and Gately digging JOI's grave & Orin having beaten them to it, but these are hardly impressive given that the text more or less spells these things out. The trouble is, the overarching nature of this theory is predicated on things Schartz has completely projected onto the text: "JOI also created DMZ as part of an attempt to undo the effects of Hal’s eating mold as a child", "The DMZ and the Entertainment were meant to go together for Hal." etc. He doesn't bother explaining or justifying these things at all and they're the heart of his theory.

I get that his 'argument' is seductive but the reasoning is incomplete, the evidence mere projection and the rhetoric purposefully misleading. Whenever people post this it implies to me that either, they believe any old critical analysis they read online, without bothering to fact check even one iota of them, or they're simply too lazy to bother giving it any thought, and maybe secretly know the theory is uneven but want quick easy answers regardless.

Didn't the Goonies find the cartridge in the tunnels? They throw out all the excess shit they find in black garbage bags. And then Gately (I think) inherits the garbage bags full of cartridges from a druggy friend, and he sells them to the antotois.

Copies may have already been made at this point, but I think that's how the master gets to the video shop. Question is: who at the academy owned and threw out the master?

While the plot of infinite jest is intricate as fuck, if that's why you were reading it then I feel sorry for you. Most of those questions can be answered and a lot of those answers are linked to that first chapter, and that chapter comes first so that once you get to the end you are denied the pleasure of any major revelation. Wallace is denying you the pleasure of being entertained which is supposed to help you see the several arguments interwoven with the action of the book in regards to entertainment, choice, and several other concepts. If you want to discuss the ideas present in the book, the come to Veeky Forums. If you want answers about plot, then go to Google or read the fucking book a second time and see if you can figure it out.

pleb

congrats, this is the cringiest thing I've read on Veeky Forums

>Nowhere in the text does it state explicitly or implicitly that JOI places the DMZ on the toothbrush
This is my problem with the theory as well, but I don't think it necessarily negates it entirely. It's pretty clear when Hal begins his big change towards the end, it happens right as the wraith interference starts ramping up with Ortho, so I don't think it's too far a stretch to think the two are connected. And the strength of argument that DMZ and the Entertainment are supposed to go together is totally dependent on your interpretation of what exactly the Entertainment is, why Himself created it, and why it affects people the way it does. On that front I think Schwartz's interpretation is as strong as any I've heard. My only big sticking point with this theory is that DMZ is supposed to have such a strong effect on whomever ingests it, but wouldn't that be something the encyclopedic endnotes would have mentioned? Or maybe that's part of the intended irony, that we're overloaded with information and entertainment except where it would be actually pertinent and useful.

I think this theory still gets thrown around, years after it was written, because it's clear and concise and answers many of the main questions you're left with at the end of the novel. Of course it's flawed, but it's better than most of the half-baked interpretations floating around.

It's incredibly misguided to think the plot isn't worth exploring, and frankly I feel sorry for YOU. I think the reason the first chapter comes first is so that when you finally finish this monstrous book you're lured right back into it, which clearly parallels the entrapment the addicts and tennis players, not to mention the entrapping power of the Entertainment. To suggest the themes of the book and its plot are divorced and shouldn't be explored in tandem seems to me to miss one of the most impactful aspects of reading a book like this.

>like Hal and Gately digging JOI's grave & Orin having beaten them to it

What?

When did this happen?

It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't remember this happening at all.

Am I stupid or is this shit really obscure?

A lot of this stuff happened "off-stage" (off-page?) and is pieced together from oblique mentions scattered throughout the book.

The digging up of JOI's skull is explicitly stated. The 'orin beat them to it' is implied. The Happy Anniversary copy came from Arizona, etc

Hal mentions him and Gately digging up Himself's grave in chapter 1. Chapter 1 is the furthest in the along, temporally speaking. The book being structured this way really lends itself to a second reading. I think this is part of the "infinite-ness"

But yeah. That part is explicitly mentioned. Then, in the hospital, Don has a premonition that is about him and Hal digging up the grave, and it's "too late". So this all is in the book.

Orin being the person who beat them to the punch is not in the book. It's a common assumption because Orin being the one sending people tapes makes sense "somewhat" (I'm not entirely sold but yes there is that one scene with him at the post office that doesn't otherwise need to exist).

Here's what I don't get. Didn't Himself's head explode? How could there be a cartridge in there. Wasn't Hal's desperate attempt to dig up the grave his way of grief? That he wasn't trying to look for the cartridge but simply a way to speak to his father? And he does it with the help of Joel (films, which are Himself's spirit ) and Gately (drug rehab)

There's a weird thing about body parts / missing / engorged limbs throughout which I haven't fully deciphered the meaning of.

The academy has lungs, the radio station is the brain, there's a heart somewhere but I've forgotten. Orin has a huge leg. Hal a huge arm. Mario a huge head. Somewhere in the concavity there are giant babies, but that's possibly a myth. The terrorists have no legs. Matthew wife has no skull. Steeply reports about a woman with no heart.

Random note. Both Hal and the attaché are huge fans of Byzantine erotica. Hal is also darker skinned than his brothers. Is Hal the attaché's son?

The attache thing is legit. But the other stuff I would say is explained by DFW's obsession with deformity. A lot of his work contains stuff like that.

nice spoilers asshole OP

The ending of Infinite Jest is like an ending to a Sopranos episode, except the next episode never comes.

Not that big of a spoiler honestly. You could read the entire book and never pick up on any of that.

There was never a cartridge inside his head. In his head was the "anti" Entertainment chip that he sought to destroy with the microwave but apparently failed.

All of his master cartridges were buried with him, as per his will. Hal and Don dig up his grave not for some kind of closure but because Hal goes to the hospital upon being dosed with the DMZ, gets a bed next to Gately and Joelle visits Gately shortly after the USOUS interviews her. She tells them both about everything, so that's when they learn that they need to dig up the grave for both the masters and the chip

>Is Hal the attaché's son?

Fuck, this is plausible. Three sons, three different dads...

right? Mario could be some random french guy's son, which is why he was born deformed.

Mario is Charles Tavis's son. The incest is the presumed cause of all the deformities

this makes sense too. Any specific bits from the book to support that it was Tavis specifically?

p.451 "the thing it's not entirely impossible [Tavis] may have fathered asleep up next to the sound system"

So it's still ambiguous, I concede, but it's mentioned this way and Avril and Tavis (half siblings) have fucked, as mentioned elsewhere.

So... Veeky Forums is STILL talking about this book. I hate newfags.

bad post

Wow 38 posts before someone decided to start shitting things up. I think this is a new record Veeky Forums

This is a very awful post, yikes

Stop being the way you're being