Why don't space programs start a base on the Moon first as a "trial run"? I know there's little to know atmosphere to shield people from cosmic radiation, but mars is the same way. There's frozen water on the Moon, just like Mars, and getting to that frozen water would be quicker on the Moon, as the Moon is much smaller than Mars. Rescue missions and emergency supply runs would be easier with a colony on the Moon. Aiming for a colony on Mars before making one on the Moon is like skipping the basic quests in a game and charging straight into the advanced quests.
(We should really explore our Earth fully before leaving for a broken dead one but thats another topic entirely.)
Maybe the goverment is hiding something from us on the moon.
Gabriel Powell
> there's little to know atmosphere to shield people from cosmic radiation The Moon is hard vacuum. There's an 'atmosphere,' but in terms of radiation shielding, there is nothing.
>>There's frozen water on the Moon That's still a pretty goddamn big question. We have yet to explore the permanently shadowed craters where frozen water is supposed to exist on the Moon. I mean we know it's there from the LCROSS experiment, but we don't know what the actual environment is like in the crater. Is water mixed in with the regolith, buried under it? We just don't know. Exactly how much water the moon has is still a pretty big question.
>>frozen water would be quicker on the Moon as the Moon is much smaller than Mars That argument does not make any sense.
So the problem with water on the Moon is that it's in permanently shadowed craters, this makes it hard to get at. Because how are most of our rovers powered again? That's right with solar power. And somebody decided it was a good idea to waste a good deal of NASA's plutonium on a Mars rover instead of a fucking awesome rover for exploring craters that haven't seen the light of day for millions of years.
>>colony colonies imply people. People require an assload of resources to keep alive. Fuck that. Instead we should build a self replicating robot factory. With a modest mass sent to the Moon we could have self-sustaining robotic industry up there. With that industry we can build solar power satellites, which provide value on earth, from lunar resources. islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/
>>We should really explore our Earth fully before leaving for a broken dead one that's a load of bullshit. What does explore earth fully even mean? Does it mean explore earth's entire volume?
Isaiah Howard
It's very expensive and governments prefer to pay for Africans who breed like rats rather than for space exploration.
It's technically impossible: You can't live on the Moon in the mid term because the gravity is so weak that your bones will melt.
Chase Harris
>gravity rotating habitats, we've been able to build them for ages would be able to easily simulate 1g, and thus have no problems the only reason the ISS doesn't have one is because the station was built specifically for microgravity experiments on people
Grayson Flores
An astronomy project like a telescope of the optical or radio variety on The Far Side of the Moon would produce incredible results, you could even be remotely operated if you wanted to.
A magnetic mass accelerator could launch Giant payloads into space from the Moon's surface. Or because of the moon's low gravity you can build a space elevator with existing materials.
The casino resort would always be fun.
But do we really know how much water is frozen on The Moon there may not be enough for large scale practical use...
Gabriel Wood
>Why don't space programs start a base on the Moon first as a "trial run"? Because they can't even get into orbit
Noah Perry
8972912 Not this shit again
Nicholas Cooper
Of course your mass driver has to be really long if you want reasonable accelerations. Although things that aren't living can withstand unreasonable accelerations
Zachary Walker
Not nearly as long as it would have to be on Earth, I wasn't even thinking about crewed spacecraft, but I think on the moon human beings could handle that acceleration if track was longer.
Gabriel Reed
Sounds legit.
Christopher Howard
>Why don't space programs start a base on the Moon first as a "trial run"?... Aiming for a colony on Mars before making one on the Moon is like skipping the basic quests in a game and charging straight into the advanced quests.
We haven't done either one yet, nor are we about to do either, so why worry yet? Talking about future plans is not the same thing.
>(We should really explore our Earth fully before leaving for a broken dead one but thats another topic entirely.)
Dumb as fuck, but as you say, another topic.
Dylan Morales
>we've been able to build them for ages
Or at least we think we are able to build them. We've never built one, though. The proof is in the doing.
Hudson Green
Your mass driver would have to be 15km as a bare minimum.
Andrew Cooper
Because that would be the most expensive trial run ever.
Thomas Edwards
No, we have built them, they are at most carnivals and theme parks.
Benjamin Allen
there is literally no one working towards "space colonization" and no one gives a fuck
Ryan Howard
Semi - relate question because I don't want to start a new thread.
I just read Jupiter most habitable moons always have the same face pointing towards Jupiter. Could you avoid some of Jupiters radiation by building on the "dark side of the moon" to cut down on shielding needed ?
Aiden Allen
Why everybody is fucking ignoring Moon?
A Base on Moon will a great cornestone for new missions later.
>New space missions to the deep space can be launched from a Lunar Base.
>Larger Spacecrafts could be built on Moon, where the lower gravity would require less thrust, fuel & propellants.
>Aiming for a colony on Mars before making one on the Moon is like skipping the basic quests in a game and charging straight into the advanced quests.
Juan Myers
Could I train in one of these like Goku on his way to planet Namek?
Ryder Johnson
There's no point in having people in space since the invention of the fiber optic cable and the microchip.
Xavier Turner
Because it was completely unrealistic? The entire premise was based on the moon having a shitload of he3 on the surface, when really it's just 50 ppb.
Lincoln Roberts
still have to get shit to the moon, its a waste of time an energy. instead of going straight to space you spend more time landing and more fuel getting off.
Mason Reed
Do you actually believe this is zero-g? With that stiff hair? youtube.com/watch?v=-z-qISGgAUs Not hard to imagine 'real space hair', would move like hair does under water
cognitive dissonance sure is a good replacement for critical thought, eh jeb?
Brody Wilson
spcae isn't real, its to keep you from digging up the horrors sealed away below.
Asher Morris
28 fucking day cycle.
It causes so much problems it's not even funny.
Nathan Foster
Bumping for interest.
How does the body react to 2-3 gs straight down for an extended periods ?
Ryan Lopez
Salty
Anthony Young
Artificial lighting. Shit, people won't be spending much time outdoors anyway
Jaxson Garcia
That's not bad at all.
Sources? Calculations for curiosity's sake?
Jaxon Sanders
It's a touch choice to be honest.
In the long term, Mars has the possibility of becoming a self sustaining civilization.
The proximity and low gravity makes Luna unlikely to become a spin off society, but it is an easier option for near term development and would offer more and quicker benefits for science and businesses.
Connor Jones
You wouldn't be exposing yourself to the light anyway you'd be bouncing it off mirrors into your habitat, filtering out all the unwanted wavelengths to simulate day and night, you'd just lower the shutters on the windows or turn lights on
Joseph Martin
LEDs work just fine.
I suppose morrors, windows, and lenses would be a nice backup for plants if you lost power though.
Sebastian Parker
its not the light that matters, it's the temperature swings and thermal expansion cycling etc that fucks with everything
Carson Long
You seem to have wondered to the wrong board. is that way, my unintelligent brainlet friend.
Luis Rogers
And it occurs slowly over a 28 day period. You're looking at about 12 cycles per year, that's not too bad.
Jayden Collins
>shitposting this hard that shit eater is from /b/, just like you are
Adam Moore
if it's too hot, you could shunt the heat into the ground, if it's too cold, just turn on the heaters would be finicky as shit, but someone could probably think up a smoother solution for that one
Benjamin Nguyen
because its expensive. it's either gonna work or it wont, and if it doesnt work on mars or the moon you're dead in both cases
Andrew Walker
Well certainly not with Trump in the office.
You need to remember that its all about the anti-science these days since the election.
Jace Murphy
go home redditor Trump is the most Pro Space president since Kennedy, and his actions confirm this go suck cocks somewhere else with your lies and asshurt no more gibs for Somali clown fart programs
Jaxson Allen
If it wasn't for libfags and their need to bribe their voter base, we could slash taxpayer handouts to blacks and Mexicans and third world countries and use that to increase science/space funding
Sebastian Peterson
Mars itself is the trial run. It's much easier than building anything on the fucking moon.
readjusting the budget to be exclusively space, instead of eco nonsense that they have no real reason to be working on will
NASA should not be looking at the environment, the EPA and others have that job
William Morales
It has a day length almost the same as earth, an atmosphere, water, and a lot of clay.
Xavier Myers
You could say the same thing about our oversized military and their endless stream of various benefits.
I don't disagree with your post so I won't argue against it, just saying.
Henry Edwards
I like Zubrin but I lost some respect for him when he criticized cyclers.
Andrew Gutierrez
Military spending can lead to useful developments while welfare spending just creates more unproductive mouths to feed. The knowledge and tech gained from launching missiles at each other served as the building blocks for launching rockets into orbit.
Brandon Davis
>>day length >>atmosphere
And how's that make things easier?
>> water >> clay Liquid water isn't stable at martian ambient temperature and pressure. Making clay is going to be difficult
Luke Turner
Well you would expect a pro-space president to INCREASE funding for NASA rather than decrease it.
Now if trump was really just making things exclusively space, then why did trump cancel the asteroid redirect mission? Why hasn't trump provided official direction for NASA? Without ARM what is NASA to focus on?
Ayden Miller
>cutting funding from NASA's Earth/climate study divisions means NASA can't do space stuff any more
Luke Gutierrez
>hey we're going to fly an asteroid right next to Earth >but don't worry because we're the good guys, remember?
Camden Ramirez
An earthlike day-night cycle means you can use natural light to grow crops, saving an extreme amount of energy. An atmosphere means that it's cheaper in fuel to land, and it provides shielding to humans from the nasties of space. Ice is useful to get water from. Clay is everywhere on Mars and can be fired into bricks which can be used to build pressurized structures underground.
The only advantage of the moon is that it only takes a handful of days to travel to or from it, and transfer windows come around frequently.
Gavin Powell
And a 24-hour day-night cycle is vital to growing crops because... ?
Sebastian Wilson
>> grow crops That has nothing to do with building things >>saving an extreme amount of energy How much? >> cheaper in fuel to land Fair enough >> shielding Fuck all if any >> fired into bricks You can do the same thing with lunar regolith, sans water: hdl.handle.net/2060/20160010607
Robert Brown
use your fucking head mate
Cameron Carter
>use natural light to grow crops How are you going to get natural light down into the shielded caves that your crops will have to be in, just like you?
Nolan Roberts
Crops go under large polymer domes with a low pressure, bare minimum acceptable atmosphere.
Jack Bell
Moon orbit velocity near the surface ~= 1.8km/s Max sustained human acceleration ~= 100m/s^2
So 18 seconds of acceleration. s = 1/2*a*t^2
You'd need to circularize once you are in orbit, but it wouldn't take much.
Elijah Ross
>then why did trump cancel the asteroid redirect mission?
good riddance
space station at Lagrange 1 is a much better goal for NASA
it is the first step in building up permanent cislunar infrastructure and also a great target for commercial resupplies
Adrian White
>An earthlike day-night cycle means you can use natural light to grow crops, saving an extreme amount of energy.
It is not an extreme amount. Energy needed to produce food is on the order of a few kW per person.
Note that lunar poles have peaks of eternal light where insolation is much greater.
Liam Reyes
>I think my soil won't be sterilized because plastic You really thought this out didn't you. This isn't a movie, this is your Mars colony starving to death.
James Green
I can't remember what material the dome is supposed to be to resolve that, you'll have to read The Case for Mars.
Connor Lee
>read The Case for Mars The Case for Mars also says plastic, or even glass. Never mind that these don't stop variously lethal levels of radiation at thicknesses that are transparent to visual light, they also don't stop punctures from micro meteors or even remotely address long term atmospheric abrasion.
If the large portion of one's case for going to Mars is going to rest on farming on the surface, then one has no case. It'd be significantly more efficient and safe to simply farm underground, which is where human habitats on Mars must be placed.
You're not going to have glass/plastic domes until you have sufficient industry and population on-planet (and underground) to allow for accidents and replenishment costs to not automatically cripple your colony.
There's two ways to approach colony emergencies. Prepare for them or prepare entire replacement teams when a minor accident kills everyone.
Nathaniel Morales
>18 seconds at 10+ g
Alexander Miller
We are working on the Moon. The "Deep Space Gateway" is current planned project for pretty much every major space player (sans China who has their own lunar program). The problem is that you just don't hear much about it.
Thats just giant bureaucratic waste because NASA always does things ass backwards
Thomas Perez
It's better than nothing.
Easton Diaz
its worse actually
Nathan Wood
I dont know much about this stuff, but apparently people have done 1 minute at 10g, so i figured 18 seconds would be cake.
Camden Butler
people hate the DSG because they want the US government to pay for elon musk's rocket instead
go back to r.ddit
Hudson Bailey
>Military spending can lead to useful developments while welfare spending just creates more unproductive mouths to feed. actually no, they are both for necesity to mantain the united states working.
The military makes sure that people from outside dont destroy america and welfare works on people from the inside
Hudson Nguyen
Trump isn't planning that though. Trump has provided no direction to NASA
Hunter Hill
>colony on Mars/Moon
JELLO BABIES JELLO BABIES JELLO BABIES
Landon Watson
this, we just need proper implementation of bodily cycle functioning. Like scheduled sleep, work and light. Drugs and other tech if need be, too.
Evan Gray
>people hate the DSG because they want the US government to pay for elon musk's rocket instead I can understand that, as people have a distrust of national space agencies and see SpaceX as a savior. I want SpaceX to go and colonize Mars too, but who knows how long it will take them to actually pull it off (Falcon Heavy took forever to happen). It's also a problem to put all of your eggs in one basket and hope that a single colonization effort is more important than many. If that one project fails then we may be stuck on the Earth for even longer whereas with multiple different approaches, we may see one (or all) of them succeed. Each of the different approaches (SpaceX, NASA, Chinese) has different funding sources too so they're not exactly competing with each other either.
Charles Brooks
DSG is not an alternative to SpaceX though Flying on a rocket that might cost over 5 billion a launch, only flying once every 2-3 years
Until we have launch capabilities that aren't shit there is no point in trying to do anything in deep space.
Noah Clark
Thats totally wrong Internal welfare spending is about creating dependent underclasses who will vote along socialist lines every time While the politicians loot the country
The major point of socialism is funding dysgenics, especially non-whites, in our countries.
Generations of non-whites have been living on welfare in our countries.
Hunter Taylor
Bullshit. People born there will be able to withstand gravity of the Moon/Mars.
Lincoln Cooper
>as people have a distrust of national space agencies What "people?" Of all the people I know, none have a distrust in NASA, ESA, or JAXA. I've seen only tards and paranoids voice anything but respect for them.
Xavier Watson
>The military does no R&D, nor do they have an interest in space I absolutely hate faggots like you. Of course, even the military is becoming pozzed these days, so I doubt there's going to be much more coming from our military
Evan Long
It's almost like he's a business man and would rather have private industries handle space affairs to avoid government red tape, huh?
Dominic Cruz
>Not having orbital nurseries that spin at 1g to allow proper bebbe development. Cmon son
Kayden Evans
>this is American education The moon is CGI you dumb fuck.
Aaron Nelson
>People born there assuming the low gravity of moon/mars is enough to allow their hearts and digestive systems to develop normally. Never mind the incredibly weak bones and musculature, just pumping blood around and moving food through the body could require more gravity than there is on the moon or mars to develop.
