New Atheism Doubt

brush

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Read this shit bro, it's totally Wicked. Turns out God is not real, but Nyarlothep is and he's using Capitalism to break into our world

Instead of fighting it why not study christian philosophers and writings of the like? Look at it from both angels and then make a decision if you're beginning to doubt yourself. Remember that you don't have to be a "Christian" to believe there is a god, Agnosticism is a thing.

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I was born an atheist. Going to a jesuit uni confirmed for me that religions are vain, partly after reading Nietzsche and other traditionalists. Now I am firmly in the camp of: the Abrahamic religions are filthy, and spirituality in this new age is possible without them, which is a sharper stance than atheism in the sense that it is a real -ism.

I used to be a hard line atheist, you know, the annoying kind. Am currently more agnostic but it's hard to deny that I have a heavy desire for faith in something. What do I do?

Pick any thread, senpai, Veeky Forums is a Catholic board.

I used to be a really edgy and combative Christian. Arguing with fedoras on the internet was like a hobby for me, then I dropped religion and went full atheist for a while. I think it's mostly teenage hormones 2bh.
I've loosened my grip substantially since then. I'm a Christian, but I don't like saying that I am because it implies many things about a person that are inaccurate, I just try to be as loving, productive, and positive as I can within my little sphere of influence. I don't like arguing anymore, it's a fruitless effort and invariably divisive. Also I don't have strong enough convictions for it.
Anyways, that's my dumb story.
Read Crime and Punishment for sure.
Kierkegaard, Augustine, Tolstoy.
The Gospels, of course

good luck

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I bet this must be among the most depressing books ever written. Aesthetic: bleak vaporwave americana

bump

I saw them debate publicly, if Peter uses the same arguments in the book as he did there, I think it's a bit of a joke, he sucked. But maybe he just sucks in a face to face argument, and a slower paced literary argument is his strength

I was 8 years old when I became an atheist, and I never needed a book to tip me over into it. I just started questioning things with a very juvenile frame of mind. My sister also "was an atheist because of these man" and I never understood how The God Delusion suddenly changes people's perspective, as it's an incredibly shallow approach to philosophy.

Conversely, it was when I became older (14+) that I began framing questions in a more complex manner and began to uncover religious beliefs and thoughts. But I really am curious what question Dawkins asked that no person under the age of 12 hasn't already asked, unless you were the kid who made it to middle school with a total and empowered belief in Santa Claus at that age. You can even read writing that's equally as simply written and understood as Dawkins, like Tolstoy, that brings up questions with incredibly more depth.

I could see Nietzsche creating a crisis of faith in someone who is philosophically and religiously mature in thought, but that's a much more complex and independent way of thinking.

Orthodoxy by Chesterton.

ITT: MY BIG OTHER IS ______.

Fixed.

this, if only this

you're not alone user, Ive tread a similar path

buy a gun

C.S. Lewis
William Blake
The Quakers

Lonergan, Maritain, Gilson

The esoteric Christianity of every single idealist philosopher since Kant

This

that book isn't really a fight against atheism, its his journey to faith and its pretty good. the epilogue about his brother is endearing imo

Kek

Belief in God in an Age of Science (as discussed by a theoretical physicist/theologian)
Surprised by Joy (C. S. Lewis discussing his conversion from atheism to Christianity)
The Consolation of Philosophy (deals with free will and the problem of evil)
A Life of Jesus (Japanese discussion of Jesus meant for atheist peers)
Kristin Lavransdatter (fiction, Norwegian Nobel laureate, an atheist to Christian convert)

Having been an atheist who converted to Christianity (joined a church, was baptized, the whole deal) and is now an atheist again, I don't think that you will find satisfaction there. If you have any intellectual integrity or curiosity it is going to open up a whole new set of problems for you that will wear you down into the dirt. Don't find out the hard way. It isn't worth it.

read some non-dipshit philosophers on atheism like habermas and searle

>I know that there is no reason to believe in God but I find myself always coming back again

Fedoras might be annoying but this is plain retarded.

>I don't want to be seen as a fedora-meme
>I know there is no god, but still.

>so worried about being grouped with a group of people(that nobody really cares about) that you try to believe in things for no reason at all.

Feuerbach and Nietzsche are the best to read if you want intellectual atheism.

I too liked them, specially because I bought so much into the scientific discourse that I would later renounce. That is to say, it's not so much that the scientific method is in any way illegitimate or at fault, just that the ideological discourse that usually follows it and puts science in the place of a saviour is not much different from the religions science often criticize. Even if science is based on facts, and it is, in its disregard for the humanities (ie philosophy, linguistics, psychanalysis, history) it denies itself the chance of looking at itself critically, historically and allows for new objects to take the same position that was once frowned upon, and worse of all, without making a sound (ideology). If religion is a fiction based on "lies", science is a fiction based on facts, which is troublesome not because there is any discourse that isn't fiction, the true saying which either could have been missing (there is no such thing), but because the facts help conceal and protect themselves from looking at their own fiction.

It's also not simply an accident that the scientific position has taken over religion and that by chance it has fallen for similar problems. Science has been feeding itself, not by the facts alone, but by the position these facts take in regards to its counterparts. In other words, the questions and the myths remain unchanged while science offers new answers, therefore being guided by previous questions. Neurology and behaviourism for psychanalysis, Nature for God, technology for social change, atheism for theism. It is not enough of a radical breakthrough. Science take the position that "whatever question you have, we can answer it better", which at first glance seems arrogant until it actually answers it better. Except on a second look it also hides a fragile position in which it disregards the importance of the question by itself, its origin, its causes and assumptions. To science, questions are made to be answered. In this urge to do it, the questions are quite often not questioned back.

A lot of scientists are still taking Nature for Law, taking history for progression, they are still on a religious mission towards Truth and can't see past their own position in society.There is a common atheist argument in which every theist religious person is an atheist to someone else's God. In the same level, one could say that a lot of atheists are only atheists to one or a few Gods. If you think you've found a substitute for God, or a substitute for religion, you are still with God, you are still with religion. It's not enough to put something else in its place, but to question the place itself and to understand how that place has developped over the years. There are christians that, if you look through the language used, argue for much more atheist positions.

It's all very interesting up to a certain point, but I hope you see other sides on the matter as well.

Fck off, buthurt theist. You mad cus no1 inteligent takes you people seriously, not even philosophers.

this. Just pray so God can open your eyes so you can belive in the Gosple of Jesus Christ. "Leap of faith" is a funny term, you dont exactly "choose faith"...at least not completly.

>What books or authors might help navigate me through these strange times?

Have you found consolation in life user.

Don't worry about it. All you supposed "atheists" who were raised Christian in a Christian household and went through a rebellious phase where you lost faith or claimed to have... you're not atheists. Your early programming was completed before you had a chance, and you'll always fall back to the comfort of faith, using whatever mental gymnastics you need to employ to convince yourself that it's not a regression, but rather a "deeper understanding" or onset of supposed maturity making you give up your rational side. And you twits call fedoras annoying. Real atheists were raised with no faith, never missed it, and are as likely to convert to theism as you are to decide you're a druid on your deathbed. They don't care about science, Dawkins, or trends. You lost your chance to be a true atheist before you were seven.

>What books or authors might help navigate me through these strange times?

forget everything you know and believe in Jesus Christ

Read carl jung's 'the undiscovered self'

>there is a God
>Christianity is right

There are different questions and the fact that they're conflated in your OP tells me you were wrong before and will be wrong in the future.

Atheists live a void without consequence and purpose.

Really? Here I thought we lived in the exact same world as everyone else, with all our actions have precisely the same consequences: legal, social, environmental, etc. The difference is that we haven't managed to convince ourselves of a second life which is oh so much more important. Not having faith in an afterlife increases your appreciation of this life, obviously.

What do I do with it?????

>Not having faith in an afterlife increases your appreciation of this life, obviously

Different user but I dont think that such a statement is even remotely close to reality. For me personally not being able to believe not only in a caring god but also in an ultimate purpose all together has made dealing with the hardships of live a lot harder. The perceived realization that we are born into an uncaring, yet deterministic universe in which nothing which we do ultimately matters is haunting to me but I any alternative does not make much sense to me. I would love to just be suddenly able to believe in a purpose but it does not cut it for me. So the general statement that not having certain faith in an afterlife/ a caring god makes you appreciate this life more is plain wrong, I state myself as a prime example for the contrary.

brush

Plantinga blows dawkins out of the water with 'where the problem really lies'

I suppose if you're yearning for faith, that attitude makes sense. I can't imagine why "all the stuff I lived through was God's whim" or "I'm going to spend eternity on a cloud" would add more meaning to daily life or to death. The idea that our lives need some kind of eternal awesome cosmic meaning strikes me as hilarious, personally.

>all this projection.

I grew up in an essentially atheist family, was pretty hardcore about it through my teens, and then found God in my 20s.

Good post. Closely follows my own thoughts on this matter.

Going through a 'muh Dawkins, lmao@christcucks' phase is important in giving you the confidence to fight all this stuff out but you'd have to be pretty dumb to stop there imo.

>Veeky Forums is a Catholic board.

Nah its majority nonreligious, much like every other board on the internet. We tend to have an open mind to tradition and different viewpoints though.

lmao get out with your "leap of faith" garbage. You can't force yourself to believe in something. I could try to convince myself that I'm an elephant, but deep down inside I know objectively that I'm just some human nerd in America. Philosophical arguments for God as well as finding harmony in between scientific understanding and faith are the way to sell religion to the atheists.

This book exposes those dudes for the frauds they are/were:

amazon.com/Last-Superstition-Refutation-New-Atheism/dp/1587314525

What Dawkins brings to the table is a discussion about how those childish philosophical positions are the cause of literally millions of deaths and scientific repressions since the dawn of man.

Life is not about consolation. What do you want to be consoled about?

Lord Kek is the truth, OP.

Kneel before His Divine Frogginess and be forgiven the sin of atheism.

Wait till death visits, user.

But all those millions of deaths came from political, geographical and ethnic disputes, with religion laid over the top as a way of getting people to commit murder without feeling guilty. Blaming 'muh god' is like blaming football teams for having hooligans who battle over turf with their team loyalty as an excuse.

>actually being insecure enough to change your religious beliefs over fear of being associated with people who wear a specific type of hat

How has Christianity ever "repressed science"?

Good stance.

I agree to some extent. Though based on my own observations (this board being one of them), people get PRETTY PISSED OFF about abstract disagreements. Also, religion was as much a way of getting people to NOT kill as it was for excusing them for killing the heathens. It was a form of control over the masses.

You're joking, right? Do you know what the word heresy means? Do you know what the consequences for heresy have been in religious societies?

OP, your doubt is a natural tendency toward being less of an asshole who thinks they know everything about everyone else's experience. Go with it, but don't actually go anywhere.

Read Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals

>Also, religion was as much a way of getting people to NOT kill

Well that's the central point surely, it's all a way of putting some moral conditions on people's chimp-like animal behaviour. Sometimes it's 'don't kill that guy' and sometimes it's 'do kill that guy because he's kaffir and also we want his stuff'. Without it there would be nothing but mindless savagery and people murdering each other for the nearest potato.

>conditions on people's chimp-like animal behaviour
Now we've got psychotherapy, so religion can fade away.

I grew up in an athiest family who had many Christian and Jewish friends, and enrolled me in a (secular) Jewish preschool. We celebrated consumerist, secular versions of Christmas and Easter, and we occasionally went to a friends church on those holidays for the singing and the kids activities. I also went to a few friends Bar Mitzvahs and got to expirience what a Jewish service is like.

I don't know why anyone thinks that a family needs religion to love each other, my family was perfectly strong without the Church. There are plenty of other community activities and organizations for socializing with and helping other people in your community.

I watched my mother die of cancer. It didn't make me magically superstitious. Sorry user, the habit of worship is common, but it's not universal.

I'm sorry to hear that, but my point was less that folks raised atheist never get religion but rather that folks raised with faith in the household rarely permanently convert to atheism, because of early indoctrination and fear. Not being indoctrinated with guilt and fear at a young age makes you less likely to fall for it later, but it doesn't provide complete reliable immunization, sadly.

False dichotomy between Christian polytheism and naive New Atheism. Read Spinoza.

Senator grey poupon = richard dawkins. And it's 'three horsemen' since darth hitchens is no longer not anywhats with anything. Sam 'scott' harris. Daniel 'niggergivebikebacc' dennet.

These are from a channel full of various animated selections from CS Lewis's books, articles, articles and essays on Christianity and God. It's truly great stuff. Here's some good ones to start with.
youtube.com/watch?v=Lgcd6jvsCFs
youtube.com/watch?v=BXlBCZ_5OYw
youtube.com/watch?v=AJu0oYvi-cY
It's an introduction at the very least.

The other thing you need to do is read the Gospels of the Bible (which discuss the life and teachings of Jesus). All you have to do is read one of those and go from there.

Sartor resartus by Thomas Carlyle

Tbh I was fedora from 8 onwards, happened when I started with the Greeks and realized all religions were just shitposted memes designed to control the plebs. Beautiful memes, but an euphoric child cannot survive on memes alone.

Read CS Lewis. Start with the Abolition of Man then Mere Christianity. It worked for me when I went through an atheist phase (mostly in College).

Due to my contrarianism and how annoying they were in the early days of Veeky Forums it catapulted me towards favoring religion

There is no reason to take anything the bible tells you as truth other than that you have been indoctrinated to do so.

Contrarianism isn't really a legitimate reason to do or decide anything on it's own - and if the best excuse you have for supporting an irrational doctrine is "Because I wanted to be a hipster" then your claim to religion is like a hermit crab climbing into the shell of a dead conch - affectation of a dead thing.

The philosopher John Gray has written some good stuff on alternative forms of atheism.

3 to go

like many Atheists you are already too fixated on theology and the existence of God. The existence of God is already a personal dilemma and you'll continue to view it from an emotional and experiential perspective. Just go Christian since you already engage with faith over logic.

> Faith over logic
When will this meme die?

Never, faith is different from logic and it's the reason people practice religion. It is about satisfying a subjective personal criteria for existence rather than just a logical conclusion made from fact. Science/Atheism will never satisfy those criteria.

Define fact, if reasoning rather than just empirical evidence is included then a logically proven argument for God can exist

I also recommend the last superstition

I lost faith before being exposed to any of them. They only gave me arguments and the urge to ask every person I met if they believe in god and tell them why they're wrong when I was an edgy teen. In recent months I found in myself a great desire to be able to believe in god out of despair, but no excuse can make me turn an eye from the unjust suffering in this world. And even if I take the leap or something, nothing will actually change. Gnosticism seems to answer the incompetence of god in the best way, but I see no reason to accept it either.

>What books or authors might help navigate me through these strange times?

So good religious books have been posted here however its important to read decent athiest works at well because Athiest thought is not limited to people like Hitchens.

The Miracle of Theism is probably the best and most schollary work on Atheism and should certianly be read before you discard the idea

belief is not something you pick and choose—it's a psychological state of mind. you either believe or you don't, and have very little agency in it

Not necessarily religious, but this kind of situation is definitely the one that spurs a desire for deeper cosmic meaning.

What's the point of life if everything dies, etc...

Not for me. All things end: that's irrelevant and necessary. My mother had an interesting life, and it ended, as all lives do. I'm enjoying life, for the most part, and yet it's comforting to know that it will end someday and I can fertilize some soil.

I simply, do not, give a fuck.
Live how you believe is right.

ITT