what exactly is wrong with the theory that a divine being created the universe and mankind in its own image? Is the development of human consciousness itself not proof of the existence of the divine? How else could you account for human beings having seemingly having deific powers of the mind in quality and scope if the divine itself does not exist? No other creatures have consciousness and as a Christians I believe human beings being given a divine personality or personhood atttached to a mortal coil this external shell is proof in and of itself of miracles. What's wrong with this proof?
Landon Russell
And yes, this doesn't necessarily support only a Christian God but it does account for the existence of divinity and explains consciousness which evolutionary scientists can't explain. It seems really childish in the absence of any other explanations to dismiss our view of the nature of man as "hurr durr all religion is retarded". Not baiting but if you have atheistic stubbornness you should really try lsd or psilocybin because being hostile to anything that contradicts your worldview isn't a good virtue.
to expand a bit on the arguement in OP, it's having this physical form that I think hides the true nature of man from most people. When I talk to people about this they seem to feel kinship with animals, they just see themselves as being more advanced cattle. I'd like you to take a minute to just think of human consciousness and what it really is, and realise what we are in relation to cows or chickens. They're nothing compared to us. They're a collection of instincts, emotions and senses.
Jose Hall
>theory that a divine being created the universe and mankind in its own image? It's not scientific.
Charles Reed
I don't know how Veeky Forums feels about philosophy...
Blake Robinson
Hurr durr 'god did it' is just a thought terminator, we need a better answer
Parker Kelly
>human beings having seemingly having deific powers of the mind
Ryan Wilson
I feel as if you're making quite a logical leap when you go from:
>Human consciousness is more than a set of strictly physical processes.
to:
>A divine being created the Universe and us in its own image.
Does A really imply B here?
Jeremiah Morales
>No other creatures have consciousness You mean self awareness? That's because their brains aren't developed enough, and many animals on Earth come pretty close. Elephants, dolphins, and various primates exhibit human behaviors and come close to having their own cultures, humans are not as special as you think they are. On top of that, it's a big big universe full of planets with habitable conditions. There could definitely be other life out there that is much more advanced than humanity. To say "no other creatures have consciousness" is ridiculously close-minded.
Julian Smith
>what exactly is wrong with the theory that a divine being created the universe and mankind in its own image? It's not a theory in the scientific sense. It doesn't make testable predictions.
>Is the development of human consciousness itself not proof of the existence of the divine? No.
> How else could you account for human beings having seemingly having deific powers of the mind in quality and scope if the divine itself does not exist? What does this even mean?
>No other creatures have consciousness They don't?
>What's wrong with this proof? It's not proof of anything.
Nolan Peterson
i think faith is an important part of life. i think science is incapable of answering any question about the true nature of the universe. somehow by reducto ad absurdum i believe the universe was created. the fact that science alone will never explain it... the search for meaning has a higher purpose. there is objective morality. sorry if i sound schizophrenic.
Alexander Hall
>what exactly is wrong with the theory that a divine being created the universe and mankind in its own image?
Ontologically? Nothing.
Morally? Everything.
William Moore
Yes. If we are not "strictly" just physical processes enough to have a concept of such a thing as a "physical process", then physical processes aren't the end-all, be-all of explanation, and that there is both matter and whatever it is in matter that enables it to apprehend itself as such. This principle can be rightly called divine.
Jayden Allen
The mind is a virus that is parasiting your body. Its the voice that tell you to do or dont do things.
Benjamin Wood
>mankind in its own image? What does this mean to you exactly?
>Is the development of human consciousness itself not proof of the existence of the divine? Not necessarily. That takes way too many assumptions, is the Divine set out to create human consciousness? Does human consciousness exist throughout the universe?
>How else could you account for human beings having seemingly having deific powers of the mind in quality and scope if the divine itself does not exist? By this are you saying that because we can conceive a God it must exist?
>No other creatures have consciousness They are conscious, their minds are just not as developed as ours.
>human beings being given a divine personality or personhood What's divine about it?
>atttached to a mortal coil Do you not think our moral outlook could be caused by other things? This seems consistent with the fact that morality is different across time and culture. If our moral code was God-given surely it would be innate. If it was innate why is there so much debate and disagreement on moral issues?
>this external shell is proof in and of itself of miracles Something seeming miraculous is subjective.
Owen Bailey
>They're nothing compared to us. They're a collection of instincts, emotions and senses. So are we, we just have the privilege of metacognition.
Angel Edwards
>what exactly is wrong with the theory that a divine being exactly that it is not a theory >human beings having seemingly having deific powers technological tricks are not deific
Jacob Williams
>What's wrong with this proof? it's not a proof Lrn2proof fgt pls
Ayden Brown
It's possible in theory, but it's not scientific. Consciousness is not proof of the divine.
Samuel Morales
Such a shame, I like how romantic the idea is
Jaxon Jones
So who created god?
If you need to invent a god to explain human consciusness, what do you have to invent to explain god.
Austin Martin
There's nothing exactly wrong with it, but there's nothing right with it either. If some omnipotent deity (who/what created that?) created the universe, he/she/it sure went to great lengths to disguise the fact they did. Belief in a God is blasphemy, you're basically saying "Aha! you tried to hide what you did, but I see right through you!"
Robert Thomas
Kind of the point of God is that it wasn't created
Wyatt Long
You can think it is important. Just don't expect to spout it being the source of moral objectivity and not expect any push back.
Brody Myers
>what exactly is wrong with the theory that a divine being created the universe and mankind in it's own image?
Nothing, logically, as far as nearly anybody can see. I have yet to see falsifiable predictions made by any such model, though
>Is the development of human consciousness itself not proof of the existence of the divine?
No. Why would it be? Your own incredulity?
>No other creatures have consciousness
What would possibly be meant by this? Orcas and Bottlenose Dolphins, in addition to Orangutans, Elephants, Chimpanzees, Gorillas, and certain species of crow all exhibit abstract reasoning and problem solving skills. Also, humans vary in their own intelligence from Australian aborigines to Ashkenazi Jews; and from sufferers of Down's syndrome to Fields Medal winners.
>as a Christians I believe human beings being given a divine personality or personhood atttached to a mortal coil this external shell is proof in and of itself of miracles. What's wrong with this proof?
Where IS the proof? Or even evidence for this claim, other than an appeal to incredulity? It sounds like you're saying "human cognitive capacity is really high! There must be something out there that made it so high!"
>And yes, this doesn't necessarily support only a Christian God but it does account for the existence of divinity and explains consciousness which evolutionary scientists can't explain.
Right, no God of any kind is supported by your claims, including a Christian God. Evolutionary scientists can't explain consciousness because they don't try, and nobody can explain consciousness yet.
Luis Cox
>It seems really childish in the absence of any other explanations to dismiss our view of the nature of man as "hurr durr all religion is retarded". Not baiting but if you have atheistic stubbornness you should really try lsd or psilocybin because being hostile to anything that contradicts your worldview isn't a good virtue.
Nobody uses such a response. They may infer it from lack of any evidence for your assertions. What on earth would the experiences of LSD or psilocybin prove about divinity? Also, a lot of atheists, like Sam Harris, believe that LSD/psilocybin open up experience to a realm that actually exists. And they still don't believe in God.
>to expand a bit on the arguement in OP, it's having this physical form that I think hides the true nature of man from most people.
You didn't make an argument in the OP. You stated your incredulousness that human consciousness could come without the existence of a personal God. Maybe this is worth pursuing rigorously, but you didn't make an argument.
> I'd like you to take a minute to just think of human consciousness and what it really is, and realise what we are in relation to cows or chickens. They're nothing compared to us. They're a collection of instincts, emotions and senses.
Sure, the cognitive differences are usually agreed to be extreme, but cows and chickens are relatively docile animals. Again, could you so easily say the same thing of bottlenose Dolphins or Koko the Gorilla? And an average Australian aborigine is nothing in terms of cognitive capacity compared to Terry Tao or Andrew Wiles.
Chase Bell
Why wasn't he created?
If he was always around, why wasn't the universe always around eliminating the need for a god anyway?
Carter Ramirez
>No other creatures have consciousness This is the problem, the universe is absolutely massive and you're relying on humanity being the only thing in it that's intelligent, and even more you're relying on humanity being the most intelligent if we did find something else. What if another species finds us who is far superior and they believe a divinity created them in its image, and see us as something that's relative to a cow to them, because they're that much smarter than us?
Henry Martin
>why wasn't the universe always around it would have reached heat death by now
Ian Moore
I'm all for the belief in some form of higher organization. If we think from a more practical view, we can see that humans are heading more toward this idea. We create computers and, more specifically, videogames in which we trap digitalized creatures in a habitable zone and leave them to theirs or our own devices. The Sims is a good example of this. Its rudimentary but its very similar to our own situation. We're stuck in a habitable pocket of space left to discover love, society, science, and our own motives as we travel through life. How is this not just a hyper-detailed, hyper-realistic Sims game?
Its pervasive to speak about our world as being procedurally generated but why? Its because mankind has been taught that through our own discoveries and innovations, we are certainly Real but let me ask this. Would you not want to play 'god' if this reality were a game?
Blake Williams
>living in a simulation
Not even worth considering because it just adds another layer to the original problem.
Fine, we're in a simulation so now you can just shift all these considerations to the creation and existence of the simulator(s)
Jayden Barnes
Oh right let me just add the >"Op a gay for belief lol" How do frustrate antire board at once? >Mention deities that sci cannot disprove
Noah Powell
what if simulation puts limitations on the answers you can uncover? Maybe on a higher level it is as simple as 2x2 to know why everything exists.
Kevin Ramirez
>Is the development of human consciousness itself not proof of the existence of the divine? It is proof we don't fully undersand the universe, not of the divine.
Jace Lopez
Ok, I'm a Jewfag so I believe in god, but how the fuck do Christians actually think Jesus is the son of god? That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Mary got fucked by a roman soldier lolol
Joseph Allen
Jewfag here again. Also, your logic is bloody awful. The fact that we have consciousness isn't alone proof, that's absurd. We have zero proof that human consciousness didn't develop naturally (though I do think it was an act of god, natural or otherwise, that occurred during the Adam and Eve scene). Just because we believe in god doesn't mean we have to abandom scrutiny and questioning. If you're truly open minded, there is a potential explanation for every possible biblical event (in the Tora, not your new testament insult to god) . I follow all the Jew shit and believe it 100% but I don't have to seperate my mind when considering science and religion. Both are one because religion is inevitably a study of the world in front of us, among a slew of other things. If we abandon logic in this study, then it isn't true. Stop bullshitting yourself and consider the world for what it is. Believe some parts of your religion, but feel free to deny a lot of it, as it's a twisted version of the correct religion anyway lol
Jaxon Watson
What is consciousness fag? Come up with a workable definition of consciousness that doesn't rely on your pseudo-spiritual bullshit
