Why is the world so enthralled with the obviously inferior 1984?

because caricaturesque evil is something the masses can understand.

The actual natural progression of society, and why it is bad, is not.

BNW is too true to be effective.

Marxism is about sharing property and means of production.
BNW is about the efficiency proclaimed by Ford (a reference to Henry Ford, who's about as far away from Marx as it gets), it describes a hierarchical meritocracy with genetic class engineering, how obsessed do you have to be to read marxism into it?
It's about efficiency, industrilization, and the replacement of culture and norms with relativism and science. Placing society over individuality is just one of the consequences of that base line.
People like you are the reason 1984 is more popular, learn to read subtexts you fucking pleb.

>learn to read subtexts you fucking pleb.

never, fuck you.

>Henry Ford, who's about as far away from Marx as it gets
I wonder how it feels to be THAT blue-pilled.

Kek has spoken. He said "go back to /pol/."

Oh no, I'm red-pilled just like you my fellow Lizardian friend.
Let me know when you reach the hollow earth stage of redpill.

WUZ

I'm not saying BNW is the end-all dystopian analogue but it's accessibility for non-readers is way more comparable to 1984 than your pic related

All this books suck. I read 1984 when I was 17 and thought it was ok. We was better than ok but not great. And Brave New World was such trash I couldn't make it through the entire book. These are children's books

Why is it whenever people talk about 1984 people have to REEEEEE and bring up Brave New World when its ideas don't even really contradict 1984s and the books are complementary if anything.

Authoritarian regimes seem to control the people using a combination of techniques seen in Brave New World and 1984.

TURN BACK, NOTHING BUT PSEUDS HERE

Not you though

>Marxism has nothing to do with Ford or industrialization
>Marxism has nothing to do with industrialisation

Holy fuck, this is seriously the most outstandingly wrong thing I have read this entire year. It is so wrong, I am amazed at just how wrong it is.

Marxism is STRONGLY linked to industrialization, you know how marx yammered on about a "post-scarcity society" and the "means of production"? Those were both concepts introduced in direct response to industrialization. Marxism was supposed to be about how the world could cope with industrialization you nimrod with ideas like the labor theory of value. It was supposed to be a new way of organizing society in a post-industrial post-scarcity world.

For fucks sakes one of the characters in the book was "Bernard Marx". Yeah, Ford was a famous anti-communist and anti-Semite, however the book wasn't really about ford, it was about Industrialisation and Marxism, and Ford just happened to be THE symbol of industrialisation when the book was written.

Brave New World was about collectivization taken to its logical extreme to the extent even sex was collectivized. It was exploring how a post-scarcity society could leave us even worse off than scarcity. It was exploring if the utopia promised by communism would truly be a utopia. It was taking "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" to a hilarious extreme by using genetic and social engineering to manipluate peoples abilities and needs. BNW was basically Marxists getting BTFO for an entire book. They talked about religion being suppressed, just like how the communists suppressed religion. They talked about families broken up, commies did that too under Lenin. There were some fascist like ideas too, but it was mostly about Marxism.

I seriously think you should reread Brave New World from the start. You missed the ENTIRE point of the book. What the hell did you even think it was about?

>Marxism has nothing to do with Ford or industrialization
>Marxism has nothing to do with industrialisation

Holy fuck, this is seriously the most outstandingly wrong thing I have read this entire year. It is so wrong, I am amazed at just how wrong it is.

Marxism is STRONGLY linked to industrialization, you know how marx yammered on about a "post-scarcity society" and the "means of production"? Those were both concepts introduced in direct response to industrialization. Marxism was supposed to be about how the world could cope with industrialization you nimrod with ideas like the labor theory of value. It was supposed to be a new way of organizing society in a post-industrial post-scarcity world.

For fucks sakes one of the characters in the book was "Bernard Marx". Yeah, Ford was a famous anti-communist and anti-Semite, however the book wasn't really about ford, it was about Industrialisation and Marxism, and Ford just happened to be THE symbol of industrialisation when the book was written.

Brave New World was about collectivization taken to its logical extreme to the extent even sex was collectivized. It was exploring how a post-scarcity society could leave us even worse off than scarcity. It was exploring if the utopia promised by communism would truly be a utopia. It was taking "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" to a hilarious extreme by using genetic and social engineering to manipluate peoples abilities and needs. BNW was basically Marxists getting BTFO for an entire book. They talked about religion being suppressed, just like how the communists suppressed religion. There were some fascist like ideas too, but it was mostly about Marxism.

I seriously think you should reread Brave New World from the start. You missed the ENTIRE point of the book. What the hell did you even think it was about?

BTFO

In that sense it was about Marxism, sure.
But people on /a/ tend to over-emphasize marxism in anything they read, and BNW is no different. It's about industrialization, to which Marxism was ONE response (hence the reference among the MANY other famous names).
It was not directly about Marxism, no matter how nicely you dress it up.

Many famous names, there was a character named Benita Rothschild in BNW what was that? A stab at Banks? >insert meaning here

More than your interpretation of the book, I just can't believe you actually said Marxism has nothing to do with Industrialisation.

Marx talks about factories CONSTANTLY in the communist manifesto. The post-scarcity society where he envisioned Marxism would take hold was reliant on the abundance of goods provided for via factories. Marxism isn't just related to Industrialisation, Marxism ties itself at the hip to industrialisation.

They arent the same at all. 1984 is Dystopian, BNW is Utopian.

misreading both marx and BNW this badly.

marx banged on about the domination of man by technology, epitomised by fordism and talyorism. he was not a proponent of these things. he analysed them, he did not promote what you are claiming..

also eugenics was in the air at the time, any links to marxism are extremely tenuous if not outright false.

sexual collectivisation was not a marxist concept, it was more of a utopian socialist(as marx sneering called them) thing like
Fourier.

You know just enough to think you understand the book, but in reality this is a shit tier analysis

Underrated thread and post. Was about to make this one myself. High five OP, we think alike. Ignore the haters in this thread.

>Authoritarian regimes seem to control the people using a combination of techniques seen in Brave New World and 1984.

/thread.

Half of these quotes sound like pure luddite butthurt
>Waaah techonology makes us souless !

He didn't endorse a world that was seen in BNW, but BNW did take his ideas to their logical conclusion.

I unironically see nothing wrong with eugenic practices depitected in this novel

Not claiming the eugenics or class stratification were marxist ideas, the class stratification seemed to mostly be taylor. There were ideas that were quite non-marxist in that book. It wasn't just a criticism of marxism. However, "each according to their ability, and each according to their need" I could not help ignore WAS actually adhered to in BnW, just in a hilariously fucked up way.

The fact that everybody in society was constantly consuming more and more, and killed before they aged was very non-marxist, practically anti-marxist, and much closer to fordism and taylorism. Really the book picked the worst out of everything going on at the time and put them together in one book.

I'll admit I'm mixing up marx with other communists when it comes to sexual collectivization, liberalization of abortion, I was wrong there. Still, a breakdown of the family which you can see in the sexual collectivization, liberalization of divorce which you can see in the references to the Malthusian Drill, equality to women which you can see in the for the time relatively gender-neutral society, actually fucked up the Soviet Union early on. It was not uncommon for somebody under the age of 20 to have married several times. A similar breakdown of the family and sexual liberalization didn't happen in capitalist societies until much later.

Also note in the book, Marx is a character that in many ways aspires to the ideal of Marx.

This actually backfired so far the Soviets started going in the exact opposite direction and started paying much more attention to the family.

So while not marxist in all senses, there are still an extreme amount of parallels between BNW and what happened in Soviet Russia. I'm also really not familiar with Taylor, just ford, so I will do more reading into him. I would argue that the fate of the Soviet Union has the history closest to what happened in Brave New World as well.

My strongest criticism again, was the idea that Marxism isn't connected to Industrialization. That's just wrong.

Not claiming the eugenics or class stratification were marxist ideas, the class stratification seemed to mostly be taylor. There were ideas that were quite non-marxist in that book. It wasn't just a criticism of marxism. However, "each according to their ability, and each according to their need" I could not help ignore WAS actually adhered to in BnW, just in a hilariously fucked up way.

The fact that everybody in society was constantly consuming more and more, and killed before they aged was very non-marxist, practically anti-marxist, and much closer to fordism and taylorism. Really the book picked the worst out of everything going on at the time and put them together in one book.

I'll admit I'm mixing up marx with other communists when it comes to sexual collectivization, I was wrong there. Still, a breakdown of the family which you can see in the sexual collectivization, liberalization of abortion which you can see in the references to the Malthusian Drill, equality to women which you can see in the for the time relatively gender-neutral society, actually fucked up the Soviet Union early on. It was not uncommon for somebody under the age of 20 to have married several times in large part due to divorce liberalization. A similar breakdown of the family and sexual liberalization didn't happen in capitalist societies until much later.

Also note in the book, Marx is a character that in many ways aspires to the ideal of Marx.

This actually backfired so far the Soviets started going in the exact opposite direction and started paying much more attention to the family.

So while not marxist in all senses, there are still an extreme amount of parallels between BNW and what happened in Soviet Russia. I'm also really not familiar with Taylor, just ford, so I will do more reading into him. I would argue that the fate of the Soviet Union has the history closest to what happened in Brave New World as well.

My strongest criticism again, was the idea that Marxism isn't connected to Industrialization. That's just wrong.

movie was better

>all that sophistry about technology in that pic

Whats their point?

As did many other thinkers.

Well I am unironic luddite so... yhea obviously.

I dont feel any desire to defend my luddism though. Pretty much 99% of the world worships technology; I can live with being ridiculed for the rest of my life.
It gets tiring repeating the same arguments over and over.
At this point I am just waiting for the world to end and enjoying my short time on Earth (so that when the end of humanity nearly arrives I can say "I warned you, but you didn't listen" and then pass into the afterlife)
In any case if technology isn't as bad as I think it is then I will still enjoy my life, I will die either way at some point. Humanity will live on and forgout about me. No worries.

>inb4 Waaah you are hyprocrite for using technology!
Dont even bother my friend. I've heard it thousends of times.

I simply hope you will find hapiness that's all. Best wishes. May you be free from pain and live in peace.

>I've heard it thousends of times.
So people told you that you're retarded a thousand times. Did it ever click, maybe they're not so wrong?

They're meant to complement one another, you bafool. If X elite ruling class cant implement X, they try to implement Y.

Well either one of the following, choose the one you prefer:

1. Technology is inherently bad, but its hard to live without it.
2. Technology is not inherently bad, but we need to use and control it responsibly.
3. Simply making you more aware of the technological society you live.

haha. I like you, but as I said I have lost the desire to repeat the same arguments every time. If am right or wrong isn't going to slow down the progress of technology in any way. So its pointless to even discuss it at this point anymore.
Maybe if we lived 100 or 200 years a go I would have, but its too late now anyway. I just want peace.

>Maybe if we lived 100 or 200
Your definition of technology is "stuff that invented since 200 years ago"? Are you retarded?
When some caveman tens of thousands of years ago had an idea to sharpen a stone to make it cause more damage, it was technology.

20th century Marxism was shaped in the image of Lenin and Stalin, and both were very explicitly Fordists. Fordism is very much present in both BNW and 1984.

The only real difference is the focus of 1984 on the managerial class, which was always Orwell's main focus, since he was very much guilt-ridden by being bourgeois.

>sharpen a stone
>technology

I hope you enjoy paying off the loans you had to take in order to be spoonfed garbage.

Because it starts off strong and falls apart half way through with all the reservation bullshit.

>Authoritarian regimes seem to control the people using a combination of techniques seen in Brave New World and 1984.

Just go pane et circenses. You would learn a lot more about political systems and control.

I know that silly. I am a Luddite, you dont have to lecture me on technology. I know my enemy.

My point was that 200 years a go it would be more plausible to reverse the progress of technology and it would make more sense for me to take the time to counter pro-tech arguments and have some hope of stopping humanity from its self-destruction.

Now I have lost that hope, so I am not that interested in debating anymore. I am just trying to live in peace at this point.

Stay deluded son. Sharpening a stone is a form of technology. Altough I dont have so much of a problem with that kind of technology. I am mostly anti-industrial and anti-digital technology.
Either way I dont have the desire, time, or energy to go into specifics and go all philosophical. I'll just leave it at this. I already know 99% of the world disagrees with my views; I have accepted that. It is what it is. Just enjoy life while you are still alive.
May you find peace and love brother.

Didn't you read it?
>"everyone is happy now"

Kekd and checked