ITT: We discuss the exact way to read complex mathematical formulas and notations

Fuck off to another thread. This was a real mathematical sentence taken from a textbook. Symbols are many times read a certain way, regardless of their context.

Well, it certainly does not make sense without context as I pointed out, which makes you stupid for not posting the source.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet
"Gamma delta plus alpha iota beta iota is greater than zero for all iota"

I don't know why I'm responding to this. It's obvious that mathematical notation, that advances beyond basic algebra, becomes incomprehensible to certain people. You didn't even recognize this as a legitimate sentence, which it obviously is. The question is how they are read out loud, not how they are applied.

These are the kind of answers that I'm looking for. But the problem is, once notation gets less basic, such as, h(a1 ⊕ f1 ⊕ a2 ⊕ f2), Sq,D(b1 ⊕ 0 ⊕ 0 ⊕ 0), Wikipedia seems to no longer be of any assistance in finding how such symbols are to be read out loud.

>Φ(a) = φα(a) a ∈ Aα
By no means a mathematician but: a function of 'a' is equal a scalar multiple of a different function of 'a' given/and 'a' belongs to a domain closed under multiplication. (I don't know how to make sense of it if the second part isn't some sort of condition)

For the second one: I have no clue what ~ would mean besides approximately so; lambda ~ a 2-tuple coordinate (a,b) equals coordinate (x1,x2). The rest I'm assuming is builders notation to relate absolute value of 'x2' to a function of 'x1' and relate' x1' to 'a'.

But I'm probably retarded so do tell me how I got it wrong if you know.

I usually just read the name of the symbol

the point, which you're too retarded to understand, is that you don't literally translate the symbols one by one, you translate the MEANING of the fucking sentence to english. for example:

"the composition of f and g restricted to D"
"the positive region limited by such line and the graph of such function"

you will read them this way regardless of whether you're studying alone, you're writing it to someone, or anything else. you would know if you actually did math

doing it wrong

"the image of the sum of a1, f1, a2, f2"

This doesn't sound retarded, but remember, this thread is about how formulas and notation are spoken out loud. There are numerous threads, sites, conversations, etc, on how to actually solve equations.

Somebody retarded wouldn't be interested in this topic to begin with. He's asking about the precise way(s) in which equations are to be read. So, for example, two people could communicate mathematical formulas without seeing them written. I don't know why you're so triggered about all of this.

I already told you how. your answer doesn't say anything about that and instead is a useless defensive rant. stay on topic

This guy gets it.

I'm coming back to your thread out of spite. You are retarded. The other poster explained it perfectly, you don't just translate symbol, you translate the whole sentence. That is why I said that as your sentence does not make syntactic sense, it cannot be translated.

You then said that you got that sentence from a book, and I did not dispute it. I said that you should post the context to understand the syntax of the notation being used, as it is not standard. For example, in your sentence
>φα(a)

The φ and the α are just literally next to each other. This does not make sense without extra context. If instead we are given that α is an object on which φ operates (like how we do with [math] \frac{d}{dx} f [/math] then a translation is possible. For example, in the derivative even though the two symbols are literally next to each other, in the context it can be translated as "the derivative of f relative to x".

You failing to understand this is retarded, and the more you post you seem to be implying that one can translate sentences not by their logical meaning, but just by reading symbol by symbol. And if you truly believe that then, my good friend, please tell me how qhdqdwhdqjqhjqhjhjqdh is pronounced in english. Thank you.

You're talking about simple notation, retard. Mathematical formulas get much more complex than that, but you wouldn't know. Is this how you comfort yourself about failing as a physicist or an engineer, or even just as an interesting person, by coming on an imageboard and giving people a hard time? Go fuck yourself, cocksucker, and then your fucking mother. And fuck off with the samefagging bullshit.

>Is this how you comfort yourself about failing as a physicist or an engineer, or even just as an interesting person, by coming on an imageboard and giving people a hard time? Go fuck yourself, cocksucker, and then your fucking mother. And fuck off with the samefagging bullshit.

there we go, thanks for the pasta. here's a recent one:

You are the most unpleasent human being I've come across. I really want you to die. I really hope so. And I'm never said I was relgious you fucking retard. Kill yoursefl.

It doesn't bother me at all that you pretend to dervive pleasure from my reaction to realizing how detestable a person you are. I would genuinely be much happier if you committed suicide. You fucking braindead reddit-spacing cocksucker. And then put a bullet in your brain.

Fucking kill yourself. I really hope you die. I really do. No kidding.

You're only getting a glimpse of me. Let me tell you, if you were around me for any duration you would lose your arrogance. You'd be happy just going about your day as a pseudo-intellectual or whatever you do.

Also, who the fuck mentioned religion? Are you delusional as well?

you posted a retarded chimpout to add to my collection. I thanked you by giving you a recent one

either way thankfully it's just a glimpse or I'd probably catch something from so much shit lmao rekt

I hate to break to you, but literally nobody cares about your "collection," whatever the fuck that even means. Just continue to pretend to be a scholar on an imageboard, little man.

I have to assume you're too ignorant to continue this conversation in an educational manner. Would you rather I just call you stupid instead of ignorant? Because you're acting pretty stupid right now. And mad.

You do realize that since you've been bated from your normal shit posts to actually taking the time to write shit out, it means that I've won the troll battle you started in the first place, right? Since you failed at your pathetic attempt to shit post like the troll you are I figured I'd give you a taste of your own medicine.

I'm glad you realize that you've been bested.

I'm a nihilist, buddy, who doesn't believe any of this even has any meaning.
>it means that I've won the troll battle you started in the first place, right?
Wrong. You're probably no better off than I am in the scheme of things. The truth is, we're just two random people in a random universe randomly interacting right now.

Look, if you're still going to troll or act retarded, that's fine.
- Swear
- Ad hominem; Call people names
- Don't provide counter-arguments
- Reject realism and the scientific consensus
That's ok.
Just don't loop.
Looping is cancer.

Personal incredulity and the argument from ignorance are fallacies. You're ignorant.
You imply you have no knowledge of the other kinds, therefore they don't exist.
That is wrong irrational.
:D

>You imply you have no knowledge of the other kinds, therefore they don't exist.
No, I've long ago discarded solipsism as an untenable position.
>Reject realism and the scientific consensus
No. Nobody is more enthusiastic about these things than me, provided they remain ungoverned by subjective, opinionated, data - as they generally are in this world. But none of this refutes the idea that you, me, this board, the universe, etc, are random occurrences in space devoid of meaning,

You are out of the game, that's what you wanted.
I'll spend some of my energy to tell you a few things.
First, you are one adorable monkey to my eyes, a really stupid one, since what you just said is wrong, since you can talk about math using words, one plus one is two, and you can understand nature without understanding math, you drop an apple, it falls and so on :)
a small tiny lecture to you, understand it.

And since you are not in, you don't want to know how to.. for example know how to calculate how to get your dream job? Like I have.. or.. How to be the perfect father?
Those are all states of everything in existence, plausible ones.

And yes, I am aware this is waste of time, like trying to teach algebra to a dog, but to others here who don't get this, be humble, don't attack me, but the theories, we will never be finished, but we can use these for literally anything..

be smart, for once in your life at least.

You don't read them out loud without being able to visually reference the equation. Why would you?

>please tell me how qhdqdwhdqjqhjqhjhjqdh is pronounced in english
It's obviously "qhdqdwhdqjqhjqhjhjqdh" you fucking brainlet

This thread is like watching a car crash in slow motion. Keep it up guise.

>calculate how to get your dream job? Like I have.. or.. How to be the perfect father?
These can all be taken away in the blink of an eye or, at very least, become an exercise in futility. Most people end up hating their jobs, and most people end up hating their kids. There probably is more to gain in studying algebra, calculus, and higher mathematics than anything involving sentimentality.

Vocaroo or it didn't happen.

are you the same guy or are you someone else
tell me so I know if I should keep posting from my stash

Same guy. Why? Are you incapable of holding a conversation without using copy pasta?

Fucking brainlet, it is pronounced like this
vocaroo.com/i/s10BfWX5qfAN

dude these posts I posted are the most retarded bait-tier shit I've collected from years of Veeky Forums
and you're just gobbling them up and replying seriously to them

are you an autist

this
brainlets smdh

I'm not him, but was that your voice?

>These can all be taken away in the blink of an eye or, at very least, become an exercise in futility. Most people end up hating their jobs, and most people end up hating their kids. There probably is more to gain in studying algebra, calculus, and higher mathematics than anything involving sentimentality.
>everything is meaningless and pointless
>jobs are meaningless and pointless
>family is meaningless and pointless
>but math don't count

I really wanted to avoid this, it became way too personal for anyones liking as evidenced by no one attempting to contribute anymore but:

The way you worded 'scientific consensus' makes me think appeal to authority. It seems like both of you are arguing using non-sequiturs. In reality, the rejection of an idea on the basis of it being fallacious is in and of itself a fallacy.

I'm moderately interested in the subject matter of this thread and I believe this worthless flamewar is the opposite of productive.

Then again, I'm just the worthless brainet from , so feel free to ignore my ramblings.

Still hoping someone more intelligent than myself can shed some light on the OP...

Yes.
As you can tell, I have a bit of a Manchester accent.

No, I'm bored. And this all serves to show how pointless everything is, as I believe.

Wrong. You're probably no better off than I am in the scheme of things. The truth is, we're just two random people in a random universe randomly interacting right now. I'm a nihilist, buddy, who doesn't believe any of this even has any meaning.

Is this how you comfort yourself about failing as a physicist or an engineer, or even just as an interesting person, by coming on an imageboard and giving people a hard time? Go fuck yourself, cocksucker, and then your fucking mother. And fuck off with the samefagging bullshit.

those are bait posts idiot
the question from the OP was answered in

>Still hoping someone more intelligent than myself can shed some light on the OP
Is this intentional irony? You just brought up the fallacy of appealing to authority.

You described the concept as anyone who has taken a basic discrete math course could have done, not answered the examples given.

IT DAAAEEEEEEEEHHH

youtube.com/watch?v=X89TjIb-xzI

I'm not understanding your point. You're simply combining things out of context. And copy pastas are retarded, regardless of whether they're serious.

I also stated that I am brainlet

that's what those two examples are, you faggot brainlet
give me a clusterfuck theorem from algebraic geometry or whatever if you want something that doesn't sound simple

you answered to the other ones, which were just as retarded, not this one just because you realized it's you

welcome to yourself

Do you seriously find my thread this intriguing? It's already hit 55 replies, and that's a lot for Veeky Forums.

you were rude to someone for no reason
so I come in and shit on your thread
that's how it works
30 of those are mine probably

That was a syntactical disaster. I think I can follow the first half
>you answered to the other ones, which were just as retarded
But this has no logical meaning
>not this one just because you realized it's you

welcome to yourself

Wrong. You're probably no better off than I am in the scheme of things. The truth is, we're just two random people in a random universe randomly interacting right now. I'm a nihilist, buddy, who doesn't believe any of this even has any meaning.

Is this how you comfort yourself about failing as a physicist or an engineer, or even just as an interesting person, by coming on an imageboard and giving people a hard time? Go fuck yourself, cocksucker, and then your fucking mother. And fuck off with the samefagging bullshit.

>30 of those are mine probably
Yeah I know. That's my point. I asked if you "seriously found this thread that intriguing?''

Why are you pointlessly quoting? Are you mentally challenged?

What the fuck is this thread?
Why is over half of it incoherent shitting?

Wouldn't the region be not necessarily positive as we only know that x2 =/= 0?

>tfw intermixing the dot notation for logical and, the dot product of two vectord and scalar multiplication all in one expression.

l2context

>Why is over half of it incoherent shitting?
You're on Veeky Forums, that's why!

*vectors

In fairness, it's difficult to express such equations via keyboard, assuming it's an ordinary keyboard. That's why computer programs are needed for conveying mathematics on keys.

Presumably something like "The Cumulative density function of a equals phi times alpha A for a in A alpha.

Which might make sense, but which I'm pretty sure is gibberish.

I now understand what your trip is. You go on random threads and heckle people until they reply angrily, and then turn them into pasta. Is this what others do as well?

Help how do I read

I'm starting to wonder: Does anybody really comprehend these mathematical equations beyond what is required for a passing grade?

not random people
only people making absolute asses of themselves

there are fairly advanced graduate students in math in this board. I just finished my BSc in math. that's not the reason your thread is shit and you're getting shat on

Please help Also this isn't Dirac notation, but I won't say what kind of notation it is

I'm not OP, but I have yet to observe any true comprehension on this subject in this thread.

of what subject? how to read?
no one's going to take that seriously

What's your point? I'm not claiming to be a mathematician. I'm merely pointing out that most people's comprehension of mathematics seems to be limited, if they're lucky, to a passing grade.

"how do I read symbols" isn't a question that shows in any way that you care about comprehending math, underage friend

How to verbally express mathematical notation. I'm with OP to that extent.

Not just symbols, but also notation in various contexts.

you already got an answer. you don't translate it symbol by symbol. you translate the expression's meaning to plain english, using as little overhead as possible

e.g. [math]\forall \epsilon > 0, \exists \delta > 0, \forall y \in Dom(f) ( |x - y| < \delta \implies |f(x) - f(y)| < \epsilon )[/math]
becomes "for any ball A around f(x), there's a ball B around x such that f maps B into A"

>"how do I read symbols"
>How to verbally express mathematical notation
Fook m8s, we have LaTeX chat mathim.com/ and LaTeX support on Veeky Forums for a reason.
There's not really one objectively right way to read symbols aloud, because it's not a spoken language. You and your colleagues just proceed pragmatically and call shit whatever you want so long as it's mutually intelligible. Is is pronounced FIE or FEE? Who cares! But then again, we have blackboards for a reason, too, and you should probably already be using those when discussing notation complex enough to not appear as words in the textbook/paper in the first place.
You ever read a proof-heavy text? Look how many proofs use only words. When you use symbols it's a deliberate choice, and one you can easily make again later.
Rather than figuring out how to subvocalize math runes, you should just refer to the concepts they represent when communicating

Thanks. This is a pretty good answer. Outside of symbols, there is no precise rule on how to read an equation. Am I wrong?

>you translate the expression's meaning to plain english
I think this was kind of the question. This can be difficult to do with long equations.

give an example, context is important. if it's difficult to translate then it should be made shorter and explained in chunks by the author

I know it has no context right here, but how should the equation below be read out loud?
If $h \leq \frac{1}{2} |\zeta - z|$ then
\[ |\zeta - z - h| \geq \frac{1}{2} |\zeta - z|\]

Or rather, how should it be translated?

i think adding the quantifier at the start reads more naturally desu. also, especially in the first one, i think that variable names actually worsen your comprehension of what is being expressed

for any variable [satisfying some property], a function of this variable is directly proportional to another function of the same variable

for any variable "a" [satisfying some property], a function uppercase phi of the variable "a" is directly proportional the function alpha of the same variable. the constant of proportionality is phi

for any "a" [satisfying some property], uppercase phi of "a" is equals phi times alpha of a.

What the fuck is even going on in this thread? I'm convinced it's all samefagging. It's hilarious how many manifestations of shitposting there are

OP: It simply got derailed from one user, who could be you for all I know. I'm as confused as anyone else.

no obvious meaning. something like
"we have an inequality for numbers less than half the difference of zeta and z, given by "

>be rude to people contributing to your thread
>"I'm as confused as anyone else"
act like a faggot and you'll get shat on

I'm not sure what you're on about. It all began with your condescending attitude that came across in your replies. You are not contributing when you attempt to dismiss the topic of a thread.

the dude tried to tell you you weren't making any sense and you called him a retard
he even ignored it () and explained it to you, and then you told him to fuck off, and kept on making a total ass on yourself
that's when I came to shit on your thread ()

take some fucking responsibility instead of going
>wahhhh why do people give me a hard time????

Here's the problem: There is a uniform way to translate this to English. And, if you're not clear, you could confuse things.
I'll ignore this we're simply going around in circles, and it's getting boring.

what's the "uniform way"? symbol by symbol? that's no way to read math

Not symbol by symbol, or else it would take a century to complete a book written for mathematicians. There are shortcuts, but there still has to be a correct, verbal translation.

there's no "uniform" way. it depends on context and intent, and in the particular taste of the speaker, like any english expression

From watching videos, it becomes apparent that there is a general way to read equations. Not to mention, LaTeX could not exist if there was no definite translation. Hand a mathematical book to somebody inexperienced in mathematics, and ask them to read it. Do you see what I'm saying?

you're literally insisting in the first thing you said, and completely ignoring all replies. that's not how you translate math

YOU DO NOT TRANSLATE SYMBOL BY SYMBOL