Name ONE (1) thing you can do with your pure maths degree that I can't with my engineering degree

Name ONE (1) thing you can do with your pure maths degree that I can't with my engineering degree.

Other urls found in this thread:

markjoshi.com/downloads/advice.pdf
quantstart.com/articles/How-To-Get-A-Quant-Job-Once-You-Have-A-PhD
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

cry

math

you engineers really lack imagination of any kind.

get 300k starting

party rock in the house tonight

all meme answers
try harder mathlets

not suck dick

Triple integrals

Get a job on wallstreet as a quant

If you only care about money, you would become an anesthesiologist because starting wage is $350k + they pay off significant student loans as a hiring bonus. After 6yrs you are making over $650k. After 10 you are into the million dollar per year range.

>Get a job on wallstreet as a quant
Pretty sure you can get a job on wallstreet as a quant with any quantitative graduate degree, even an engineering master's degree

Hell, they will even take CS fags

Wallstreet Quants are all pure math grads, but sure believe what you want. You need a solid theory grounding in Ring theory/commutative algebra, Measure theory, Numerical linear algebra theory, ect. Notice the emphasis on theory and not practical/applied uses.

The 'cs fags' they hire are seated beside a mathematician to implement their sage/mathematica strategies. Wallstreet is not like silicon valley where they want a unicorn that is highly advanced in probability theory plus can program, they instead put the two people together.

If you had a MSc in Engineering for sure you could likely self teach yourself this theory but getting hired directly as a quant without knowing anybody isn't happening.

> a unicorn that is highly advanced in probability theory plus can program
These people aren't rare at all, even non-STEM brainlets can program, so your second condition is essentially superfluous.

Also, "highly advanced probability theory" is simply analysis (in the mathematical sense) and analysts who prefer theory to applications will never describe themselves as probabilists, since probability theory is an incredibly limiting special case of analysis (most theorems of probability don't generalize well to infinite measures, or at least non-sigma-finite measures). They'd simply be analysts hanging out in the Math department, rather than in Statistics or CS.

>not rare at all
There's a difference between 'can program' and 'can program a trading strategy from a mathematicians spec'. We're not talking cloning Dropbox here.

>highly advanced probability is just analysis
No

>They'd simply be analysts hanging out in the math department
They would be theorists and yes, they wouldn't be hanging out in the engineering department so I agree.

You overestimate the necessary academic background to be a quant by a laughable degree. First of all, quant itself is not a job, its a rough family of positions. The name itself was created because Wall Street honchos are too stupid to even understand what their "math guys" are doing.

>The main challenge for a pure mathematician is to be able to get one’s
hands dirty and learning to be more focussed on getting numeric results
than on fancy theories. The main way to do this is to implement pricing
models for practice. If this doesn’t appeal you aren’t suited to being a
quant. There are quite a few ex-pure mathematicians working in the city
so it can certainly be done but there is some prejudice in favour of applied
maths and physics people. Generally, people tend to hire people who are
like them so if you can find anyone with a similar background working in
the city, apply to them.

This is from Mark Joshi.

>You need a solid theory grounding in Ring theory/commutative algebra, Measure theory, Numerical linear algebra theory
My sides.

Your appeal to authority isn't helping your case
markjoshi.com/downloads/advice.pdf

>Generally, a PhD (or almost a PhD) is a necessity to get a quant job. Having a masters degree in Financial mathematics but no PhD tends to lead into jobs in banking in risk or trading support but not straight quant jobs.

Not seeing "engineer" anywhere there.

The people who hire for this post the req and they want theoretical math students, specifically in group theory/algebraic structures. Since you want an appeal to authority, look up what Michael Halls-Moore has to say about Ring theory, and Numerical linear algebra in it being a req for modern Quant research jobs.

Math.

>Not seeing "engineer" anywhere there.
He also doesnt say anywhere its impossible to become a quant from a background of engineering, not pure math, as anything otherwise would be an absurd claim. By the way I'm new to the thread.

>Look up what Michael Halls-Moore has to say about Ring theory, and Numerical linear algebra
Really, what did he say? I googled him and ring theory and there were 0 relevant results. However, I did see his linkedin and this is what he puts under his skills.
Lo and Behold, its almost like you don't need to know shit about commutative algebra or ring theory to get a quant position.

>The people who hire for this post the req and they want theoretical math students, specifically in group theory/algebraic structures. Since you want an appeal to authority, look up what Michael Halls-Moore has to say about Ring theory, and Numerical linear algebra in it being a req for modern Quant research jobs.
People who are actually familiar with the industry know that people dont get hired for derivative pricing anymore, certainly not theorists, and that machine learning and optimizing hardware is what the highest payed, most valuable quants do these days. Pretty much what you would learn in CS, unless you are trying to tell me machine learning is appropriated from ring theorists.

Oh, silly me. He actually had more skills on his Linkedin. Look at all that group theory and and brownian motion!

...

>Quantitative developers are responsible for the design, performance and profitability of a very low-latency, high-throughput and extremely-distributed trading system. Low latency code is written in C++ and runs on linux. Development decisions – even infrastructural ones – are done in a highly-quantitative and data-driven fashion. Junior candidates will show a strong aptitude for quantitative and statistical thinking as demonstrated by a degree in Physics, Chemistry, Math, CS, Statistics, Mathematical Biology or a similar subject. Experience in C++ is not necessary. Senior candidates will have a strong track-record of excellent software design; extensive experience with modern C++; will have worked in a large and complex code-base; will have experience in the design and operation of distributed systems and multi-threaded applications; will have experience with the linux sockets and networking stack; and will have a strong working knowledge of modern computer architectures.

From Goldman Sachs quant recruitment website. Look at how vigorously they demand you know measure theory and come from a pure math background.

>There's a difference between 'can program' and 'can program a trading strategy from a mathematicians spec'. We're not talking cloning Dropbox here.
I'll grant you that non-STEMs can't do it, but I doubt that its beyond the reach of a statistics researcher (and they're not rare at all).

As a stats grad I had to take several project-based courses that was essentially about implementing algorithms from mathematical papers, just as you've described. And in order to meet the deadlines, I had to learn, by trial and error, to prove various equivalencies and refactor my code so that it doesn't blow up my system.
I don't think my experience is unusual, and while I won't claim to be an expert in "advanced probability theory" I'm pretty sure that most of my profs (who work with "Big Data" fairly regular, and with whom I've had several conversations on writing performant code) are capable of doing quant work if they had the passion/interest for it (and plenty of them do have specializations in mathematical finance).

>No
Yes

Look how you can't read.

>developers

That's not a Quant.

No no no kid. Didn't you read what said? All wall street quants are pure math grads. They won't even let you into the door unless you reconstruct de rham cohomology from scratch

So just quietly ignore the other 5000 things I said and choose your own definition of quant when your claim is abundantly absurd. The first quants on wall street were physicists, not theoretical mathematicians. Want to know why? Because they knew how to use a computer. I put that Goldman Sachs thing there to shut you up but I guess it failed. The fact you have the gall to tell that other guy he has no idea what hes talking about when clearly YOU are the one without a clue is amusing

>derivative pricing
Not a Quant, not somebody who designs positions and strategies for a hedge fund

>Machine learning and optimizing hardware
Again not a Quant, these are developers that work with them

>Google and 0 results
You had better get your money back for your CS education then.

>You don't need to know anything to be a quant
Except of course, you need a PhD though it is possible if you start as a quant developer (again, dev is not a mathematician exploiting somebody else's hedge fund strategy using data provided by the developers) and work long enough with a strategists, and teach yourself you could work up to being a quant. Usually the bonuses shared with Quant devs is enough to make them not want to level up to chief strategist and moneymaker holding the bag and responsibility for a billion dollars.

What other things, you posted an ad from Goldman Sachs for a developer.

Before you go, heres an interesting passage written by your friend Michael halls moore. Notice how he vigorously asserts that this position is not a "real quant" and you need to know measure theory to get hired. As we all know, measure theory is the foundation of algorithmic trading, and you would never learn about algorithms in a CS brainlet class

I never said you anything about PhD's you goalshifting retard. You claimed clear as day that all Wall street quants are pure math grads.
Wrong
Wrong
So fucking wrong

Quantitative analyst
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A quantitative analyst or, in financial jargon, a quant is a person who specializes in the application of mathematical and statistical methods – such as numerical or quantitative techniques – to financial and risk management problems. The occupation is similar to those in industrial mathematics in other industries.[1]

Although the original quantitative analysts were "sell side quants" from market maker firms, concerned with derivatives pricing and risk management, the meaning of the term has expanded over time to include those individuals involved in almost any application of mathematics in finance, including the buy side.[2] Examples include statistical arbitrage, quantitative investment management, algorithmic trading, and electronic market making.

Look at all that pure math

Math without notes/Ti-89s/Excel :^)

You can continue to act like this and that aren't real quants when the term is jargon to begin with as much as you want. Its clear you are some highschooler who graduated from the Michael Halls Moore Wordpress Blog University. Newsflash, quantitative developer, trader, analyst, researcher are not industry standard terms, hes using big words to roughly categorize what kind of job you can pursue in wall street with STEM skills. Your naivety reminded me of myself when I started my undergraduate studies in pure math and thought I could walk in to be some algebraic geometer working for goldman sachs. Its a fantasy. I continued with pure math because I like math. People hire you because you are good at making them money, not for aesthetics. All that time you spent studying Lang's Algebra could have been spent studying how high frequency trading algorithms, and yes that is the main area hedge funds and investment banks higher researchers for. I suggest you get rid of this pure math elitism wall street delusion before you post this on quantnet and get blown the fuck out by someone even more irritated than me. Good day to you

quantstart.com/articles/How-To-Get-A-Quant-Job-Once-You-Have-A-PhD

>Pure Mathematics - The top funds generally hire the pure mathematicians from esoteric realms such as algebraic geometry and information theory.

Destroyed.

Yeah you left out the part where quants are hired with doctorates from multiple different fields. You may find some people with purely pure math backgrounds, Mark Joshi was one. However this is not normal.

I also like how in the same word bubble he said these pure mathematicians are hired for derivatives research team and you claimed before people who worked in derivative pricing were not quants.

>Not a Quant, not somebody who designs positions and strategies for a hedge fund

Thats exactly what a Quant is. "Quantitative" thats all it means. You have inserted your own definition of quant into this crap, you don't have to be a pure mathematician to be a quant.

Look at this Quants are hired from plenty of different fields, including engineering.

>Engineering

Nowhere to be found

>Name ONE (1) thing you can do with your pure maths degree that I can't with my engineering degree.

Seems like you can't get hired as a Quant

You're retarded as fuck

>Computational

How do you know OP isn't a civil engineer

i have never heard of a quant who was hired from something like ring theory. usually its from the theory of PDEs or numerical solution stuff. Measure theory lol, no quant is doing measure theory research. somewhere you read in an article from 1997 that quants need to know stochastic calculus and this was built on measure theory and misconstrued that as all quants are measure theory researchers

/thread

yo information theory is basically statistics blad

>PhD
>retiring mid to late twenties

Showing off on Veeky Forums

Don't believe everything you read on Veeky Forums

Ah yes, I think I'll just trust a random article on the internet called "How To Get A Quant Job".

get an engineering job

So your idea of a mathematician is one that can operate Sage but not program

You have to know that sage is programming right?

shitpost

...

research ecology

your gf

underrated

get a life

Actuarial science.

In the UK you can get your PhD much earlier than in the US

I literally have a pure math degree and my current work title is "Algorithm engineer (lol)"

bet you cant understand the proof for fermat's last

underrated

design pure structures